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- brucepig
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Hello
OP - November 17, 2008, 10:36 AM

Hello everyone, my name is Brucep. I'm new to these forums. My situation must be somewhat different than most of you. I have never been a Muslim but I have grown up in London with many Muslims. I have many Muslim friends, I have read the Koran and I have traveled and lived in Muslim communities from Malaysia to India and Thailand.

I grew up with Liberal Left wing family and friends all of them have a kind of universal tolerance for everything not Western.

A kind of wishy washy, loving hug for all religion. All religion is equally wise, they are all different paths but ultimately they lead to the same place etc

The funny thing is this love doesn't extend to right wing Christians and the Messianic settlers in Israel (I'm free to say whatever I want about them) but ever since 911 this love and respect has spread to encapsulate right wing conservative Muslims.

Basically the jihadis wouldn't be as bad as they are if it wasn't for George Bush.

Osama Bin Laden would be just like the poet Rumi if the Soviets hadn't invaded Afghanistan and George Bush Snr hadn't posted infidel troops in Riyadh. It's all our fault.

The Left seem to have a great respect for Islam as a whole and feel uncomfortable even outraged when they hear people criticise it. They have a dogmatic approach to global culture which says....

British, European and American culture=Bad.
African, Middle Eastern, Arabic, Asian and South American culture=Good.

My family and friends have such a righteous, simplistic Michael Moore view of the world and to challenge them is to invite anger and contempt. It is heretical to challenge their Left wing dogmas. Also my Muslim friends and neighbours are allowed to say loud and proud ignorant and arrogant things like "The Koran is perfect" and "We are all born Muslim"

I am not allowed to challenge such statements for fear of potential physical attack from Muslims and disgust from the liberal Lefties.

So I find myself quietly and respectfully nodding sagely at the dogmas of both the Muslims and the Leftists in my life when I want to say they are both talking utter tosh. Well I'm hoping I have found somewhere I can say what I feel without condemnation.

I have not been through the dangers and problems many of you brave apostates have to go through but I have been denounced as a neocon dupe and a racist for criticising the religion of Islam.

This I find as insulting, illogical and well racist.

Surely it is racist to criticise the behavior of ones own people and culture harshly but put the behavior and culture of others beyond reproach.

For Left wing Liberal people to condemn the Danish cartoonists as racist and Islamophobic but seek to understand the London bombers in the light of Tony Blairs support for George Bush is to infantalise Muslims. It is to say that all Muslims are pure and innocent beings and that they are incapable of being bad without our provocation.

Surely this is more racist than criticising a global religion.

To hold Western liberal democracies to account when they tap telephone lines but refuse to criticise Iran for executing little girls for crimes against chastity is just a sick form of moral decay that I see everywhere on the Left nowadays.

To take it a little bit further the Liberal Left sees the crime and violence carried out on our streets in two different ways.

If a group of white men kick the living daylights out of each other on Friday night this is the result of ignorance, cowardice, drink and a lack of morals. These thugs must be punished.

If a black teenager shoots another black teenager dead! Well lets seek to understand why. It must be something to do with the oppression of the state and the history of the transatlantic slave trade.

Once again it is a racist reaction.

One group of criminals are responsible for their actions the other are not and their crimes are put down to the provocation of invasive stop and search and the crimes of the British Empire.

It's racist nonsense but It's me who is denounced as racist for saying things like.

"I have read the Koran and I thought it wasn't very good and it seems to mandate much of the violence we see in the world today"

Anyway.. Rant over. Pleased to meet you all.
- osmanthus
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Re: Hello
Reply #1 - November 17, 2008, 10:48 AM

Got that off your chest then? Sounds like they've been driving you nuts. Well sure, you can say all of that here. No dramas. The only thing we tend to get grumpy about is the "anti-jihadi jihadis" as I call them. Neocon freaks from hell that want to paint all Muslims with the Osama brush, etc. They're as bad as the nutters they rave against.

You sound like you're not one of them so welcome aboard.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- BerberElla
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Re: Hello
Reply #2 - November 17, 2008, 11:02 AM

I'm articulate like that.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- brucepig
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Re: Hello
Reply #3 - November 17, 2008, 11:04 AM

No I'm definitely not one of them.

I didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq, I think we should help Iranians to change their regime not bomb Iran. I think most people the world over are basically good. I criticise Islam and those who support or use violence in it's name. Not all Muslims are radical. Irshad Manji and Ed Hussain could hardly be lumped in with the Taliban and they are both devout Muslims.

I actually quite like some of the Sufi teachings I have read, they remind me more of Buddhism than most monotheism.

I might think traditional Islam is an awful set of beliefs but that doesn't stop me from having devout Muslims as friends. I have a Somalian friend who's religious and political views I find terrifying but that does not make him my enemy.

My Dads best friend is a fully paid up Tory boy but he's still like family to me. We can disagree about politics and religion without becoming enemies. That's what so many people seem to forget.
- osmanthus
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Re: Hello
Reply #4 - November 17, 2008, 11:06 AM

Grab a beer. Feet on the table is fine too.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- brucepig
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Re: Hello
Reply #5 - November 17, 2008, 11:06 AM

Hello BerberElla
- brucepig
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Re: Hello
Reply #6 - November 17, 2008, 11:10 AM

Cheers, Don't tempt me. I'm trying to keep off the beer. No money and working tomorrow.

Some Japanese iced barley tea, fried chicken and sticky rice might be on the menu though.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #7 - November 17, 2008, 12:51 PM

Quote from: brucepig on November 17, 2008, 10:36 AM

Basically the jihadis wouldn't be as bad as they are if it wasn't for George Bush.

Osama Bin Laden would be just like the poet Rumi if the Soviets hadn't invaded Afghanistan ...

Sorry - I read this far and couldn't read any more - partly because the post was too long.

ps Hi.

pps - that bit you said that I quoted above is bullshit btw The Jihadis and Bin Laden were arseholes long before Bush.
- brucepig
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Re: Hello
Reply #8 - November 17, 2008, 12:58 PM

Hello Hassan, I'm here because of you, I think!

Is it you who has been posting vids on the disscussislam channel on youtube?

You obviously skimmed my post. I was making a critique of the way my left wing family and friends think. They think it's all our fault, Western Imperialism causes all of the worlds ills and Islam means peace etc

I don't think radical Islam is our fault. George Bush may have poked a stick in the hornets nest but the hornets were already there.

I think the actions of radical Islamists comes from a literal reading of Islamic scripture and a feeling of god given superiority.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #9 - November 17, 2008, 01:19 PM

Quote from: brucepig on November 17, 2008, 12:58 PM
Hello Hassan, I'm here because of you, I think!

Is it you who has been posting vids on the disscussislam channel on youtube?

You obviously skimmed my post. I was making a critique of the way my left wing family and friends think. They think it's all our fault, Western Imperialism causes all of the worlds ills and Islam means peace etc

I don't think radical Islam is our fault. George Bush may have poked a stick in the hornets nest but the hornets were already there.

I think the actions of radical Islamists comes from a literal reading of Islamic scripture and a feeling of god given superiority.

Oh. I'm sorry - you'll have to forgive me, I do skim at times - basically coz I post from my laptop in between doing my online job and 101 other things.

I agree with what you just said - and yes that guy is me - and welcome
- brucepig
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Re: Hello
Reply #10 - November 17, 2008, 01:25 PM

Great vids Hassan. It's very brave of you in this political climate to openly say what you say. Respec
- Iris
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Re: Hello
Reply #11 - November 17, 2008, 06:01 PM

Welcome brucepig

Life is a sexually transmitted disease which is invariably fatal.
- Biaxident
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Re: Hello
Reply #12 - November 17, 2008, 06:02 PM

Hola!

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello
Reply #13 - November 17, 2008, 06:06 PM

Quote from: brucepig on November 17, 2008, 01:25 PM
Great vids Hassan. It's very brave of you in this political climate to openly say what you say. Respec

Thanks... though if some jihadis one day burst through my door, and kill me - everyone will shake their head as they read the paper and say:

"Stupid idiot - should've just kept his mouth shut!"
- sojournerlumus
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Re: Hello
Reply #14 - November 17, 2008, 07:24 PM

Far from it, believe me.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
- Baal
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Re: Hello
Reply #15 - November 17, 2008, 08:25 PM

Welcome Aboard!

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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