Attacks in Mumbai

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- brucepig
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #30 - November 28, 2008, 04:36 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 27, 2008, 05:23 PM
Quote from: neilmarr on November 27, 2008, 03:33 PM
This silence in itself is sinister tacit comment on the fear of international media to offend. N

Maybe it's not sinister or fear but sensible caution - waiting for the facts rather than speculating so they don't mistakenly stoke up anti-Muslim feelings.

Yes PC bollox drives me mad and so many people try to get the Islamic ideology off the hook and shift the blame onto America/imperialism/Israel etc it's just silly but Hass is right.

It would be bad journalism to assume the facts before they have been confirmed. It might seem obvious to us but good journalists don't make assumptions.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #31 - November 28, 2008, 07:43 AM

Latest reports say that some of them were British Muslims - I find that very disturbing.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #32 - November 28, 2008, 07:45 AM

Quote from: brucepig on November 28, 2008, 04:36 AM
Quote from: Hassan on November 27, 2008, 05:23 PM
Quote from: neilmarr on November 27, 2008, 03:33 PM
This silence in itself is sinister tacit comment on the fear of international media to offend. N

Maybe it's not sinister or fear but sensible caution - waiting for the facts rather than speculating so they don't mistakenly stoke up anti-Muslim feelings.

Yes PC bollox drives me mad and so many people try to get the Islamic ideology off the hook and shift the blame onto America/imperialism/Israel etc it's just silly but Hass is right.

It would be bad journalism to assume the facts before they have been confirmed. It might seem obvious to us but good journalists don't make assumptions.

and btw I was simply commenting on the reporting - that it may not be due to 'sinister' reasons, I'm not saying people shouldn't speculate.
- a.ghazali
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #33 - November 28, 2008, 09:45 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 28, 2008, 07:43 AM
Latest reports say that some of them were British Muslims - I find that very disturbing.

I heard they found an ID card of one of the terrorists and it was from Mauritius. If these reports are true then it is a well organised global organisation that would be equipped and determined to strike again elsewhere.

I agree that reporting must be tempered to ensure emotions are not inflamed.

However post analysis must be truthful and reveal exactly what inspires these acts and how the actions of Muhammad set an example and precedent for such horrors to continue to this day.

We need to forget about respect for these ideologies. We need to expose what they say and how the prey on the minds of the gullible.

Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
- speaklow
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #34 - November 28, 2008, 11:22 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 28, 2008, 07:43 AM
Latest reports say that some of them were British Muslims - I find that very disturbing.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. The UK is such a free-thinking country that everyone can think the craziest things, combine that with the fact that the UK is one of the wealthiest countries on Earth, combine that with a watered-down sense of patriotism then Islamic extremism originating from this country can thrive and wreak havoc both here and abroad.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #35 - November 28, 2008, 01:34 PM

One positive thing I noticed: Our police commissioner is a Muslim; a Muslim fighting against terrorists. And that is cool and represents a lot of kind and sane Muslims.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #36 - November 28, 2008, 02:04 PM

Quote from: speaklow on November 28, 2008, 11:22 AM
Quote from: Hassan on November 28, 2008, 07:43 AM
Latest reports say that some of them were British Muslims - I find that very disturbing.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. The UK is such a free-thinking country that everyone can think the craziest things, combine that with the fact that the UK is one of the wealthiest countries on Earth, combine that with a watered-down sense of patriotism then Islamic extremism originating from this country can thrive and wreak havoc both here and abroad.

Some of the worst elements islam has to offer were kicked out of their country and they escape to the US and Britain. I remember an iraqui official who visited Britain and commented that they would have never allowed an imam to say the things that he heard in Britain's mosques. But then again Iraq did not allow a lot of things.

Another example is Zawahiri, Qaeda's VP. For years Egypt wanted his head and the British protected that head and refused to hand it over. We only wanted the head.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #37 - November 28, 2008, 03:23 PM

What I meant was, I don't care about the political topics, in India if someone farts its blamed on Pakistan. What pissed me off was the fact the Indian army bombed some innocent fishers and claimed it was a pirate "mothership" and now they are saying some Pakistanis on a boat attacked them, maybe if they were not sinking Thai fishers they might have caught these guys. I mean come on! its not Pakistanis "its the pirates wanting revenge for the sinking of the "mother"ship". I really can't care about these topics, when the Mariot was bombed I didn't give a shit, its happened, whats the point talking about split milk?

I don't hear anyone speaking about the 1,000s who are going to die of hunger, or babies in the 3rd world who are going to die from chronic diarrhea, due to not having access to clean water.

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- zomzom
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #38 - November 28, 2008, 03:28 PM

Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 27, 2008, 07:52 PM
That's what I reckon. And the flack the forum gets about sexism is down to Tut's off the wall ranting too.

Thats not my fault and blaming me for that is stupid. Moreover, I blogged extensively how women should be valued. Me I avoid any political shit, everyone has his own biasness and agenda, even the readings between the posts in this thread prove the biasness some spew out.

Here is a blog if you want real debate:
http://statusqu0.wordpress.com/

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- Cheetah
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #39 - November 28, 2008, 03:28 PM

Quote
I don't hear anyone speaking about the 1,000s who are going to die of hunger, or babies in the 3rd world who are going to die from chronic diarrhea, due to not having access to clean water.

So until there's an end to human suffering we're not allowed to talk about terrorist attacks? By that logic we would never be allowed to talk about a terrorist attack, because there never will be an end to human suffering.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #40 - November 28, 2008, 03:44 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on November 28, 2008, 03:28 PM
Quote
I don't hear anyone speaking about the 1,000s who are going to die of hunger, or babies in the 3rd world who are going to die from chronic diarrhea, due to not having access to clean water.

So until there's an end to human suffering we're not allowed to talk about terrorist attacks? By that logic we would never be allowed to talk about a terrorist attack, because there never will be an end to human suffering.

It's the lies and biasness which I don't like and the general stupidity, and speculation. The facts are India attacked a Thai fishing boat, fired open it, killed the crew (apart from one surviver) and it told the world it was a pirate mothership, and the world praised the Indian army, when the truth of the matter is, it was a damn fishing boat, now they want us to believe some well equipped, student lookalike came on a boat from Karachi to India to do terrorism. It's right out of a damn Indian Bollywood movie script!

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- zomzom
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #41 - November 28, 2008, 03:48 PM

Fuck it you guys are right I am wrong. Am being insensitive.

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- Cheetah
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #42 - November 28, 2008, 03:48 PM

Quote
now they want us to believe some well equipped, student lookalike came on a boat from Karachi to India to do terrorism. It's right out of a damn Indian Bollywood movie script!

So what do you believe happened?

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #43 - November 28, 2008, 03:54 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on November 28, 2008, 03:48 PM
Quote
now they want us to believe some well equipped, student lookalike came on a boat from Karachi to India to do terrorism. It's right out of a damn Indian Bollywood movie script!

So what do you believe happened?

In India there is a large Islamic student movement, it could either be Islamic students from India or western based Muslim students who did this.

But I would not like to speculate, in any case the boat thoery sounds unlikely.

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- zomzom
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #44 - November 28, 2008, 04:02 PM

The ISI does not have a hand in this, these are independent groups doing this. Plus ISI's political wing was recently disbanded, ISI official does not medal in politics anymore. The new ISI chiefs are secular, almost all of the radicals have been forced out by the new government. So blaming Pakistani government and official government involvement is just absurd, and India does this too often, it tries to make it self some across as some kind of beacon of democracy and rationalism in Asia, when in reality its one of the most anti-democratic, backword, classiest, racist society you will ever find.

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- Calm
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #45 - November 28, 2008, 04:03 PM

Actually I get what Tut is saying. Indian Politicians are not much concerned for naything other than vote bank. There are extremist members right within the country. But, whatever small things happen to India, our politicians say 'PAKISTAN'. Because, it is easy to play blame game. And they don't want to take efforts in finding who were the real culprits and they enjoy appeasing religious/ linguistic majority/minority according to their party policy.
- zomzom
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #46 - November 28, 2008, 04:11 PM

The problem with Indian politics, is its ruled by elitist Hindus, and unfortunately much of Hindu Indian society looks up to these clowns. Most Indians are well educated, those who have abandoned Hinduism or push Hinduism back. The problem is not that Hindus are bad, its just Hinduism is anti-humanistic, so I can't trust a word of these fools in Indian politics.

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- Baal
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #47 - November 28, 2008, 06:29 PM

Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 03:23 PM
What I meant was, I don't care about the political topics, in India if someone farts its blamed on Pakistan. What pissed me off was the fact the Indian army bombed some innocent fishers and claimed it was a pirate "mothership" and now they are saying some Pakistanis on a boat attacked them, maybe if they were not sinking Thai fishers they might have caught these guys. I mean come on! its not Pakistanis "its the pirates wanting revenge for the sinking of the "mother"ship". I really can't care about these topics, when the Mariot was bombed I didn't give a shit, its happened, whats the point talking about split milk?

I don't hear anyone speaking about the 1,000s who are going to die of hunger, or babies in the 3rd world who are going to die from chronic diarrhea, due to not having access to clean water.

You little Tucoquing bit..ehm ehrm..better not go there Tut.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #48 - November 28, 2008, 08:05 PM

Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 03:28 PM
Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 27, 2008, 07:52 PM
That's what I reckon. And the flack the forum gets about sexism is down to Tut's off the wall ranting too.

Thats not my fault and blaming me for that is stupid. Moreover, I blogged extensively how women should be valued. Me I avoid any political shit, everyone has his own biasness and agenda, even the readings between the posts in this thread prove the biasness some spew out.

Here is a blog if you want real debate:
http://statusqu0.wordpress.com/

I'm not saying it's your fault Tut; sometimes you just don't seem to know when you're giving offence and when you're not.
I know what I'm talking about, Tut. Remember I told you I was bi-polar: well, when I'm in between, I'm ok; when I'm in depressive mode I'm ok but if I'm having a manico, I too have been extremely offensive in the past - Arrogant, know-it-all, sexist , racist, you name it I've been there- really obnoxious. But, with age and medication I've mellowed.

I have one advantage over you though: I've lived through enough boo-boos to know what to say and what not to say nowadays. You obviously don't know because of your obvious condition and because you've emerged from a background of abusive doctrine that tells you it might be OK to say certain things.
It's easy to see, therefore, why a stranger, straying into this forum and reading one of your posts, done when you're obviously not well, might think that the forum itself is a sexist cesspit when they're not fully aware of your problem.
It stands out a mile and you're not helped by some of the females in this forum egging you on sometimes. They are not helping your illness one bit.

So, I'll say what I've said before: see a mental health expert, if you're not doing so already or have your medication reviewed if you are. It will improve your life in so many ways. I wish I'd done it a long time before I actually did.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #49 - November 28, 2008, 08:12 PM

sojournerlumus, I understand what your saying. I can be insensitive at times... Sometimes, it just comes out am stressed out at times,have you notice sometimes I dissapear from where, as I somethings think I might say something wrong so I just leave. I don't talk much, not that I don't have anything to talk about, I have a great deal to talk about, but I just can't be asked wasting energy on finding words which are less offensive! Maybe I should sometimes think out my posts before I start typing.

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- sojournerlumus
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #50 - November 28, 2008, 08:23 PM

Quote from: King Tut on November 28, 2008, 08:12 PM
sojournerlumus, I understand what your saying. I can be insensitive at times... Sometimes, it just comes out am stressed out at times,have you notice sometimes I dissapear from where, as I somethings think I might say something wrong so I just leave. I don't talk much, not that I don't have anything to talk about, I have a great deal to talk about, but I just can't be asked wasting energy on finding words which are less offensive! Maybe I should sometimes think out my posts before I start typing.

Good plan. Do a draft and then leave it for 10 mins. Then revisit it and think to yourself 'Do I really want to say that?' and then give it a savage editing if they're any hesitation at all.
I think I've only offended one person with a nervy and impulsive post on here and that was poor old Awais. I'm still regretting it

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
- neilmarr
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #51 - November 28, 2008, 08:43 PM

I'm afraid this will be my last post here and that I won't even be reading the board any longer.

Thing is, I'm worried that the criticism of religion I'm so tempted to make on a daily basis might be misunderstood as something much more basely motivated than mere atheism. I really do value everyone here -- and elsewhere -- as earth-born companions and fellow mortals, and I don't want that heart-felt feeling to be debased by an urge on my part to rant.

I'm now going to ask the admin side to remove my registration, but my private email address is no secret and I'd be more than happy to respond to any wee notes from those of you I've met here and come to respect.

Very best wishes. Here's hoping that the Council of ex-Muslims really makes the difference it deserves to.

A thousand thanks for your fine company over the past year. Best wishes. Neil

ntmarrATbewrite.net (use the @ sign, of course).

We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #52 - November 28, 2008, 08:49 PM

Quote from: neilmarr on November 28, 2008, 08:43 PM
I'm afraid this will be my last post here and that I won't even be reading the board any longer.

Thing is, I'm worried that the criticism of religion I'm so tempted to make on a daily basis might be misunderstood as something much more basely motivated than mere atheism. I really do value everyone here -- and elsewhere -- as earth-born companions and fellow mortals, and I don't want that heart-felt feeling to be debased by an urge on my part to rant.

I'm now going to ask the admin side to remove my registration, but my private email address is no secret and I'd be more than happy to respond to any wee notes from those of you I've met here and come to respect.

Very best wishes. Here's hoping that the Council of ex-Muslims really makes the difference it deserves to.

A thousand thanks for your fine company over the past year. Best wishes. Neil

ntmarrATbewrite.net (use the @ sign, of course).

I personally would extremely upset if you left, Neil, I have come to enjoy and respect your posts greatly.

I hope I didn't say anything to make you leave - and I'm sorry if I did.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #53 - November 28, 2008, 08:55 PM

NOoooooooo Neilmarr, why? I hear your explanation but it doesn't sound good enough buddy

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- zomzom
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #54 - November 28, 2008, 09:15 PM

Quote from: neilmarr on November 28, 2008, 08:43 PM
I'm afraid this will be my last post here and that I won't even be reading the board any longer.

Thing is, I'm worried that the criticism of religion I'm so tempted to make on a daily basis might be misunderstood as something much more basely motivated than mere atheism. I really do value everyone here -- and elsewhere -- as earth-born companions and fellow mortals, and I don't want that heart-felt feeling to be debased by an urge on my part to rant.

I'm now going to ask the admin side to remove my registration, but my private email address is no secret and I'd be more than happy to respond to any wee notes from those of you I've met here and come to respect.

Very best wishes. Here's hoping that the Council of ex-Muslims really makes the difference it deserves to.

A thousand thanks for your fine company over the past year. Best wishes. Neil

ntmarrATbewrite.net (use the @ sign, of course).

No one called you a racist or even implied that. But there are fool who use attacking Islam as a pretext, but you don't do that, I always find it kind of annoying when genuine folks just abandon us an let the racists win.

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- Anti-Jihadist
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #55 - November 28, 2008, 10:23 PM

King's Tutta: Mumbai attacks - Who did it ?

Quote
It is 4AM in India right now. I am in Mumbai reporting from the ground. I have not slept a wink. Mumbai is under attack. People and forces who killed Mahatama Gandhi, who demolished the Babari Mosque have triumphed. More than 16 groups of terrorists have taken over Taj, Oberai and several hotels. Hundreds of people are dead. For the first time no one is blaming Muslim organizations.

The Mumbai ATS chief Hemant Karkare and other officers of the ATS have been killed. These were the same people who were investigating the Malegaon Blasts--in which Praggya Singh, an army officer and several other noted personalities of the BJP-RSS-Bajrang Dal-VHP were arrested. Karkare was the man to arrest them. Karkare was receiving threats from several quarters. LK Advani, the BJP chief and several other prominent leaders of the so-called Hindu terrorism squad were gunning for his head. And the first casualty in the terrorist attack was Karkare! He is dead--gone--the firing by terrorists began from Nariman House--which is the only building in Mumbai inhabited by Jews. Some Hindu Gujaratis of the Nariman area spoke live on several TV channels--they openly said that the firing by terrorists began from Nariman house. And that for two years suspicious activities were going on in this house. But no one took notice.

Our worst fears have come true. It is clear that Mossad is involved in the whole affair. An entire city has been attacked by Mossad and probably units of mercenaries. It is not possible for one single organization to plan and execute such a sophisticated operation. It is clear that this operation was backed by communal forces from within the Indian State. The Home Minister Shivraj Patil should resign. The RSS-BJP-VHP-Bajrang Dal should be banned. Advani and others ought to be arrested. Today is a day of shame for all Indians and all Hindus. Muslims and secular Hindus have been proven right. RSS type forces and Israel are all involved in not only destabilizing but finishing India. India should immediately snap all relations with Israel. We owe this much to Karkare and the brave ATS men who had shown the courage to arrest Praggya Singh, Raj Kumar Purohit, the army officer and several others.

A photograph published in Urdu Times, Mumbai, clearly shows that Mossad and ex-Mossad men came to India and met Sadhus and other pro-Hindutva elements recently. A conspiracy was clearly hatched.

This is a moment of reckoning especially for Hindus of India. The killers of Gandhi have struck again. If we are true Sanatanis and true Hindus and true nationalists and true patriots we have to see this act as a clear attack by anti-national deshdrohi forces. Praggya Singh, Advani and the entire brand is anti-national. They ought to be shot. Any Hindu siding with them is hereafter warned of serious consequences.

This is a question of nationalism. If no one else, the Indian army will not take this lying down. Communal, anti-national forces have attacked the very foundation of the Indian constitution and the nation. We will fight a civil war if need be against the pro-Hindutva, communal forces and their Israeli backers.

I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #56 - November 28, 2008, 10:58 PM

India: Al-Qaeda websites rejoice over Mumbai attacks
Quote
Mumbai, 27 Nov. (AKI) - Al-Qaeda websites on Thursday were swamped with messages from people who were celebrating the devastating Mumbai attacks which have left over 100 people dead and 281 injured. "Oh Allah, destroy the Hindus and do it in the worst of ways," was one of the comments that appeared on Islamist forums on the Internet immediately after the attacks.

"The battle that is underway in Mumbai is a battle for Allah between its servants and the infidels," said another message published on the al-Falluja forum.

Several Al-Qaeda sites also posted several pictures of the victims in Mumbai and provocative statements.

Some media reports are saying that a group calling itself Deccan Mujahideen has claimed responsibility for the coordinated attacks, but this has not yet been confirmed.

I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #57 - November 28, 2008, 11:00 PM

Lets all join the al fula form, and fuck with them... I would do it, but then I don't trust the UK police, might think I was there for the wrong reasons.

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- Baal
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #58 - November 28, 2008, 11:02 PM

Nice one anti-jihadist, as funny as it is though, seeing the source, IkhwanWeb.com, is making me ill. It disturbs me how Millions are following them today.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: Attacks in Mumbai
Reply #59 - November 29, 2008, 07:45 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 28, 2008, 07:45 AM
Quote from: brucepig on November 28, 2008, 04:36 AM
Quote from: Hassan on November 27, 2008, 05:23 PM
Quote from: neilmarr on November 27, 2008, 03:33 PM
This silence in itself is sinister tacit comment on the fear of international media to offend. N

Maybe it's not sinister or fear but sensible caution - waiting for the facts rather than speculating so they don't mistakenly stoke up anti-Muslim feelings.

Yes PC bollox drives me mad and so many people try to get the Islamic ideology off the hook and shift the blame onto America/imperialism/Israel etc it's just silly but Hass is right.

It would be bad journalism to assume the facts before they have been confirmed. It might seem obvious to us but good journalists don't make assumptions.

and btw I was simply commenting on the reporting - that it may not be due to 'sinister' reasons, I'm not saying people shouldn't speculate.

What worries me most about the mainstream media is not the PC bollox but the worldview that many program makers promote.

I see it time and time again on the BBC. That episode of Spooks where a group of Islamic terrorists turn out to be Mossad agents and the truly awful Bonekickers which had Christian terrorists beheading Muslim hostages. Also The Last Enemy which portrayed the British Government as a Big Brother type entity with MI5 agents victimising Muslims and liquidating British citizens all because of an evil conspiracy by a British pharmaceutical company to test drugs on unsuspecting Afghan refugees.

It seems to me that many people employed by the Beeb are fully paid up members of the anti imperialist Left and they are promoting the ideas that the West is the root of all evil and Islamic ideology is blameless. So much of the the stuff churned out by the Beeb demonises capitalism and the West and portrays Muslims as victims or freedom fighters.

It's like Michael Moore has become the Director General.
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