Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis

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- TomTom
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Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
OP - December 03, 2008, 07:39 PM

On Feb. 6, 2006, three Pakistanis died in Peshawar and Lahore during violent street protests against Danish cartoons that had satirized the Prophet Muhamad. More such mass protests followed weeks later. When Pakistanis and other Muslims are willing to take to the streets, even suffer death, to protest an insulting cartoon published in Denmark, is it fair to ask: Who in the Muslim world, who in Pakistan, is ready to take to the streets to protest the mass murders of real people, not cartoon characters, right next door in Mumbai?

Read on until the link works.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/03/opinion/03friedman.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=calling%20all%20pakistanis&st=cse
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #1 - December 03, 2008, 07:41 PM

Nice article and welcome to the forum TomTom

I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #2 - December 03, 2008, 07:48 PM

I would sincerely love to see some Muslims taking the initiative to form a sort of "Peace Now!" movements and organize a march "Muslims Against the Mumbai Massacre!" and leaflet Mosques and other organizations to join the march.

and hi TomTom
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #3 - December 03, 2008, 07:51 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 03, 2008, 07:48 PM
I would sincerely love to see some Muslims taking the initiative to form a sort of "Peace Now!" movements and organize a march "Muslims Against the Mumbai Massacre!" and leaflet Mosques and other organizations to join the march.

and hi TomTom

My dad's trying to organize one right now.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #4 - December 03, 2008, 07:52 PM

I can hear Muslims saying; "But we ARE against it - why do we have to prove it to anyone!"

I would reply - it's not about proving it to anyone, it's about sending a clear message to the fuckwits amongst the Muslims who keep making 100 excuses for the terrorists - that they will not be tolerated and that Muslims will no longer remain silent.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #5 - December 03, 2008, 07:52 PM

Quote from: luna on December 03, 2008, 07:51 PM
Quote from: Hassan on December 03, 2008, 07:48 PM
I would sincerely love to see some Muslims taking the initiative to form a sort of "Peace Now!" movements and organize a march "Muslims Against the Mumbai Massacre!" and leaflet Mosques and other organizations to join the march.

and hi TomTom

My dad's trying to organize one right now.

Good for him, Luna
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #6 - December 03, 2008, 09:07 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 03, 2008, 07:48 PM
I would sincerely love to see some Muslims taking the initiative to form a sort of "Peace Now!" movements and organize a march "Muslims Against the Mumbai Massacre!" and leaflet Mosques and other organizations to join the march.

and hi TomTom

Hi Hassan,

You might find this Indian Muslims site interesting...

http://newageislam.com/

Regards,
AJ

I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #7 - December 03, 2008, 11:37 PM

Tomtom, what is this bullshit? are you smoking drugs or are you just some damn racist? In Pakistan it was condemned by the congress of Pakistan, in very strong terms, even by the president. In fact in India, the Muslims of India refused to bury the dead terrorists in a Muslim graveyard! In Pakistan, on Pakistani Tv it was condemned all over from university students to, secularists like Dr Hoodbhoy. If you want to spared this polarization bullshit go to fatihfreedom, were it will be tolerated.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #8 - December 03, 2008, 11:45 PM

Quote from: Anti-Jihadist on December 03, 2008, 07:41 PM
Nice article and welcome to the forum TomTom

Its a stupid ass article, like one commenter said: "lets make a big fat target for terrorists to attack" which Pakistanis did mass demonstration, when the Meriot was bombed in Pakistan, in all honesty most Pakistanis are not very political, they are more worried about day-to-day survival.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #9 - December 04, 2008, 07:40 AM

Quote from: King Tut on December 03, 2008, 11:45 PM
most Pakistanis are not very political, they are more worried about day-to-day survival.

Yet many took to the streets over cartoons.

Look, KT, I understand what your saying - that Muslims are condemning it - but until their blood boils with anger at such an outrage in the same way it does when someone draws prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban - then this article makes a valid point.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #10 - December 04, 2008, 09:42 AM

Hassan,
I understand you point. But, this kind of change is needed in every part of society and not just Muslims. In India we have Godhra where in more than 1000 Muslims were murdered. Few hindus must be involved in actual massacare, most of the Hindus condemned it, as liek all ppl most of them are peaceful ppl. But, they did not take it to street. Their blood did not boil. Many of the US ppl did not approve of Iraq war. But, ppl still elected Bush administration for the next time.

The biggest problem is 'my' and 'they'. When something happens to 'me' of my beliefs, blood boils. If something happens to 'them', thereis just a mild criticism.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #11 - December 04, 2008, 04:26 PM

I have a horrible feeling that, following this, the wrath of America is about to come down on Pakistan.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #12 - December 04, 2008, 04:28 PM

Hope, that does not happen.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #13 - December 04, 2008, 04:30 PM

I doubt that.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #14 - December 04, 2008, 04:37 PM

Quote from: awais on December 04, 2008, 04:30 PM
I doubt that.

Well, they've tried almost everything else. And they're not going to let such blatant provocation pass.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #15 - December 04, 2008, 04:41 PM

Dude, it wasn't ordered by the president, or carried out by the pakistani army. They were just loons who happened to be from pakistan.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #16 - December 04, 2008, 04:46 PM

I think it's too early to say just yet. But, you know the yanks. The US sometimes reminds me of a brutal infant, crashing it's way through the global furniture with a bigger hammer than anyone else.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #17 - December 04, 2008, 11:50 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 04, 2008, 07:40 AM
Quote from: King Tut on December 03, 2008, 11:45 PM
most Pakistanis are not very political, they are more worried about day-to-day survival.

Yet many took to the streets over cartoons.

Look, KT, I understand what your saying - that Muslims are condemning it - but until their blood boils with anger at such an outrage in the same way it does when someone draws prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban - then this article makes a valid point.

There is a difference, you can always get religious bots to do anything, it only takes one imam, you can get independent thinking pepole out in risk to their own life protesting, frankly if I lived in Pakistan I'd me more worried about the price of wheat as opposed to politics, poverty enforces lack of philosophy.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #18 - December 04, 2008, 11:56 PM

Quote from: sojournerlumus on December 04, 2008, 04:46 PM
I think it's too early to say just yet. But, you know the yanks. The US sometimes reminds me of a brutal infant, crashing it's way through the global furniture with a bigger hammer than anyone else.

Its not too early, the Indian government, has openly said it was not the Pakistani government or the army, but just a banned terrorist group who had training in Pakistan. In fact Indias comment is considered unprecedented, in admitting Pakistani government had no involvement. Frankly I thought Zadari was about of a loon, but in all honestly his coming out as a resonbale person, either that or everyones just scared of him. Pakistan is being run by a gangster!

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #19 - December 05, 2008, 09:07 AM

Quote from: King Tut on December 04, 2008, 11:50 PM
Quote from: Hassan on December 04, 2008, 07:40 AM
Quote from: King Tut on December 03, 2008, 11:45 PM
most Pakistanis are not very political, they are more worried about day-to-day survival.

Yet many took to the streets over cartoons.

Look, KT, I understand what your saying - that Muslims are condemning it - but until their blood boils with anger at such an outrage in the same way it does when someone draws prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban - then this article makes a valid point.

There is a difference, you can always get religious bots to do anything, it only takes one imam, you can get independent thinking pepole out in risk to their own life protesting, frankly if I lived in Pakistan I'd me more worried about the price of wheat as opposed to politics, poverty enforces lack of philosophy.

IF you lived in Pakistan. You don't so how can you say other Pakistanis think the way you do? You can't be sure that they do. You can't be sure that they don't.

Just because Tom is questioning why Pakistanis protest about cartoons and not about the death of their neighbours does not make him a racist. I agree with him, and I'm from Pakistan. Hard to be racist to your own kind? Perhaps?

I know PLENTY of Pakistanis that are least worried about day-to-day survival and live by Pakistani politics. I've had some very intelligent debates and discussions with them, and it seems that they are aware of what is going on around them. Just because Pakistan is considered a third world country, doesn't mean that everyone is living in extreme poverty where they can only think about one thing - survival. If they could only think about their own survival, and weren't very political, they would not have protested the Dutch cartoons.

Tom, I believe that they protested about the cartoons because their religion was being insulted. Religion is very important to them, it nurtures their identity. There could be people protesting in their hearts and feeling sympathy for the Mumbai Massacre victims, but I guess they had more passive emotions towards it. That, of course, is not a justification for the way they perhaps look at the two situations differently. Perhaps they should be protesting.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #20 - December 05, 2008, 01:16 PM

Quote from: King Tut on December 03, 2008, 11:37 PM
Tomtom, what is this bullshit? are you smoking drugs or are you just some damn racist? In Pakistan it was condemned by the congress of Pakistan, in very strong terms, even by the president. In fact in India, the Muslims of India refused to bury the dead terrorists in a Muslim graveyard! In Pakistan, on Pakistani Tv it was condemned all over from university students to, secularists like Dr Hoodbhoy. If you want to spared this polarization bullshit go to fatihfreedom, were it will be tolerated.

King Tut,

For the moment the only polarizing comments are coming from you. The words seem to have hit a swore point.

Please try to control your angry and stick to the debate. Is the response from Pakistan big enough, in my opinion it is NOT.

I still did not see anyone in up roar on the scale of the stupid cartoons!

Maybe fatihfreedom would be a better for you as you appear to want to debate with agression and not ideas!
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #21 - December 05, 2008, 01:56 PM

Quote from: King Tut on December 04, 2008, 11:56 PM
Quote from: sojournerlumus on December 04, 2008, 04:46 PM
I think it's too early to say just yet. But, you know the yanks. The US sometimes reminds me of a brutal infant, crashing it's way through the global furniture with a bigger hammer than anyone else.

Its not too early, the Indian government, has openly said it was not the Pakistani government or the army, but just a banned terrorist group who had training in Pakistan. In fact Indias comment is considered unprecedented, in admitting Pakistani government had no involvement. Frankly I thought Zadari was about of a loon, but in all honestly his coming out as a resonbale person, either that or everyones just scared of him. Pakistan is being run by a gangster!

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12724858&fsrc=nwl
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #22 - December 05, 2008, 02:38 PM

I think that both India's and Pakistan's have gauged what they've said, thus far, very carefully, both to allay fear and anger in their own countries and to leave the way open for joint investigations.
Neither side wants to incurr the chance of war with the other at the moment and it's in both govts' interests to get at the real culprits.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Interesting op-ed - Calling All Pakistanis
Reply #23 - December 05, 2008, 04:45 PM

Quote from: TomTom on December 05, 2008, 01:16 PM
Quote from: King Tut on December 03, 2008, 11:37 PM
Tomtom, what is this bullshit? are you smoking drugs or are you just some damn racist? In Pakistan it was condemned by the congress of Pakistan, in very strong terms, even by the president. In fact in India, the Muslims of India refused to bury the dead terrorists in a Muslim graveyard! In Pakistan, on Pakistani Tv it was condemned all over from university students to, secularists like Dr Hoodbhoy. If you want to spared this polarization bullshit go to fatihfreedom, were it will be tolerated.

King Tut,

For the moment the only polarizing comments are coming from you. The words seem to have hit a swore point.

Please try to control your angry and stick to the debate. Is the response from Pakistan big enough, in my opinion it is NOT.

I still did not see anyone in up roar on the scale of the stupid cartoons!

Maybe fatihfreedom would be a better for you as you appear to want to debate with agression and not ideas!

Am not angry it my normal personality. I speak like this "normally" sometimes I shout and even throw things at the walls. I hate all humanity equally.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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