Hello, I am also new.

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- Blas
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Hello, I am also new.
OP - December 07, 2008, 04:29 PM

I am 32 yrs old European male, live in France/Italy; somehow I have ended up completely a-religious. My life seems to have been very busy and I have never paid much "in depth" attention to global events, just the head lines.
To illustrate my lazy ignorance..: the nearby town of St. Tropez (now a fashionable resort) was both regular port of call and operating base for Muslim naval fleets up to the 15th century so I still imagine Muslims as Saracen Arabs.

I have ignored Islam and largely avoided articles relating to inter-religious debate. A bit like some people may skip the financial columns.

Nevertheless, Muslims and their behaviour are very much in the press these days and perhaps it is time I try to inform myself a little..

I feel a bit like an intruder in your community but I am only ringing your door bell to ask for a small cup of opinions. I think it is the best and quickest way for me to find out.

Pro Muslim sites offer too much peace and anti Muslims sites too much hate.
I have opted for an "ex Muslim" forum because I am convinced you are going to be less biased.

Please feel free to ask me anything you want but if there are no objections I would like to ask you "stuff"....Should that be in the "Lounge" or "Religion and God" Forum?

I will check back to morrow.

Ubi dubium ibi libertas.
- BerberElla
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #1 - December 07, 2008, 04:35 PM

Hi Blas and welcome to the forum.

Feel free to fire the questions off, we have some pretty well rounded ex muslims here (barring me lol I;m not well rounded ).

If you are asking religious related ex muslim stuff then the religion sub forum would be best, the lounge is just for general chit chat mostly.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- Cheetah
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #2 - December 07, 2008, 04:36 PM

Welcome Blas. If you want to ask questions about religion then Religion and God would be the best place, but don't worry too much about it, because we can easily move a thread if its in the wrong place.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
- awais
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #3 - December 07, 2008, 05:00 PM

Welcome.
Quote from: Blas on December 07, 2008, 04:29 PM
Pro Muslim sites offer too much peace and anti Muslims sites too much hate.

I've found it to be the same way.
Quote
I have opted for an "ex Muslim" forum because I am convinced you are going to be less biased.

I hope so too.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
- Biaxident
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #4 - December 07, 2008, 05:35 PM

Hola!

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
- luna
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #5 - December 07, 2008, 06:34 PM

Welcome! You'll definetly get a balanced information and commentary here.
- Baal
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #6 - December 08, 2008, 07:05 AM

Bonjour Blas, what kind of observations you made so far? You mention the anti-muslim sites are too hateful. How do you associate criticising through freedom of expression vs hate? When does it cross from criticism to hate?

Personally the most hate I find is in the muslim sites. When discussing islam it is all lovey dovey. But when they discuss the suffering of non-muslims, it becomes as if they discuss an accident that happened to enemy soldiers in a war.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #7 - December 08, 2008, 07:32 AM

Welcome Blas,

You will find most of us try very hard to be balanced and fair.

Quote from: Baal on December 08, 2008, 07:05 AM
Bonjour Blas, what kind of observations you made so far? You mention the anti-muslim sites are too hateful. How do you associate criticising through freedom of expression vs hate? When does it cross from criticism to hate?

Perhaps Blas read comments like "Nuke Mecca" or "Imprison all ordinary Muslims and make all the Sheikhs and Imams dissapear" and such like said on hate sites like faithfreedom.
- osmanthus
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #8 - December 08, 2008, 11:37 AM

Hi Blas. As Hass said most of us try to be balanced in our outlook. I can't be bothered myself. I go for rabid lunacy myself. Much more fun.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #9 - December 08, 2008, 11:58 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on December 08, 2008, 11:37 AM
Hi Blas. As Hass said most of us try to be balanced in our outlook. I can't be bothered myself. I go for rabid lunacy myself. Much more fun.

May be when it comes to Catholics
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #10 - December 08, 2008, 12:06 PM

I love Catholics. Fried, roasted, barbecued, whatever. Totally love 'em.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- Blas
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #11 - December 08, 2008, 12:55 PM

BerberElla, Cheetah, awais, Biaxident,luna, Hassan, osmanthus, learn2bcalm,

Sincere thanks to you all for the warm welcome, I hope to stay with you a little while (osmanthus appetite permitting.)

Quote from: Baal on December 08, 2008, 07:05 AM
Bonjour Blas, what kind of observations you made so far? You mention the anti-muslim sites are too hateful....

Personally the most hate I find is in the muslim sites. When discussing islam it is all lovey dovey. But when they discuss the suffering of non-muslims, it becomes as if they discuss an accident that happened to enemy soldiers in a war.

Baal,
I premised my post by confessing ignorance of many matters Muslim. I have said I am here to ask questions, to try and form an opinion. The peace and hate words were just my initial impression.
I have a malleable mind and I am a quick learner.

Quote from: Baal on December 08, 2008, 07:05 AM
How do you associate criticising through freedom of expression vs hate? When does it cross from criticism to hate?

For me, it crosses from criticism to hate when criticism is not tempered by reason and logic.

I think to some extent we reflect our politicians opinions, the use of hate and fear are very useful tools for diverting attention from the real problems.

In the USA many political figures rarely miss a chance to evoke images of crashing planes, collapsing towers and 2,973 dead Americans.
And yet for the last 10 years there have been in excess of 3000 monthly fatal traffic accidents but I don't see Marine squadrons occupying the BMW or Ferrari factories to compel workers to build engines that will not exceed 60 miles an hour speed.

Having said that, you may be right and I might end up sharing your opinions.
I have only skimmed other sites, I am not really a Fora habitue'? .

Ubi dubium ibi libertas.
- awais
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #12 - December 08, 2008, 03:33 PM

don't take baal too seriously, he's missing a few books in his library.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
- Baal
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #13 - December 08, 2008, 03:42 PM

Hello Blas,

As Hassan said, a hateful comment could be 'nuke mecca' and 'make the imams dissapear' but then, even those Two arguments, can be presented and made 'palatable' using reason and logic.

Here is examples:

First On Making imams dissapear:
"We have observed so far that imams do not blow themselves up. Their sons do not blow themselves up. Yet behind every suicide bomb, there is an imam that instigated the matter or pushed for it. We know that the muslim society is tightly knit, after an explosion we ask people where did the bomber hang around, they will know and tell us exactly which mosque and which imam was his spiritual adviser. We also observed that but for a few exceptions, all the bombers were young. Older guys do not blow themselves up.

So I recommend that we disrobe the aura of holiness off imams. That after every suicide bombing we investigate, and expose at least One imam and preferably One politician. They are to be jailed and tried as accessories to murder. I even further recommed that the building (probably a mosque), where the brainwashing occured, is to be razed.

Unless those measures are taken, it will be impossible to stop suicide attacks. And if those measure are taken, you might (probably not) end up with couple riots on your hands, but you will no longer have to suffer cowardly suicide attacks on your softest targets"

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
- Blas
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #14 - December 08, 2008, 04:33 PM

Quote from: Baal on December 08, 2008, 03:42 PM
Hello Blas,

As Hassan said, a hateful comment could be 'nuke mecca' and 'make the imams dissapear' but then, even those Two arguments, can be presented and made 'palatable' using reason and logic.

Here is examples:

First On Making imams dissapear:
"We have observed so far that imams do not blow themselves up. Their sons do not blow themselves up. Yet behind every suicide bomb, there is an imam that instigated the matter or pushed for it. We know that the muslim society is tightly knit, after an explosion we ask people where did the bomber hang around, they will know and tell us exactly which mosque and which imam was his spiritual adviser. We also observed that but for a few exceptions, all the bombers were young. Older guys do not blow themselves up.

So I recommend that we disrobe the aura of holiness off imams. That after every suicide bombing we investigate, and expose at least One imam and preferably One politician. They are to be jailed and tried as accessories to murder. I even further recommed that the building (probably a mosque), where the brainwashing occured, is to be razed.

Unless those measures are taken, it will be impossible to stop suicide attacks. And if those measure are taken, you might (probably not) end up with couple riots on your hands, but you will no longer have to suffer cowardly suicide attacks on your softest targets"

Thank you Baal,

That is a clever response, I can see how it may very well be a palatable logic to many people.

To be fair, I thought you were asking my personal opinion, you said: ?When does it cross from criticism to hate??

I replied ?For me, it crosses from criticism to hate when criticism is not tempered by reason and logic.?
I wish to emphasize ?For me? as I cannot speak with much authority when it comes to other people's palate.

Ubi dubium ibi libertas.
- osmanthus
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Re: Hello, I am also new.
Reply #15 - December 10, 2008, 09:07 AM

Derail posts have been split off.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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