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Theme Changer

 Topic: Readings from the "Holy Book"

 (Read 75922 times)
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  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #60 - January 12, 2009, 03:41 PM

    Nice video, Hassan.  Apart from the witch thing which is well known to be a mistranslation of the word "poisoner", the rest is spot on. 

    The defence of understanding those verses in the context of the time is a weak one.  How can it ever have been a divine command, for example, to stone a girl for not being a virgin on her wedding night?  What context makes that a good act?  Huh?

    Depends what your argument is. 

    If it is 'Christians should be stoning girls who aren't virgins and the fact that they don't demonstrates that they pick and mix from their bible'.  Then the context is rather important.  Only through the context can we discover if it is a command to Christians at all.

    If it is 'a good God couldn't have said this'.  Then you need to show why that is the case according to how God has defined himself and what 'goodness' means.  The context would be relevant to understand how God had revealed himself to the Israelites and what he might be trying to achieve in the commands that he was giving them.

    So yes, context is important.

    Either way, there is no excuse for quote-cropping, failing to give your reference, explain your interpretation or try to identify how Christians tend to understand those verses.  That's just laziness employed to justify a predetermined position.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #61 - January 12, 2009, 03:42 PM

    Good point Berbs.  Christianity has a lot to answer for, including a lot of the quotes in the Quran which have been derived from it. 

    The OT has said much the same as the Quran has.  I wonder if any of the quotes that justified 9/11, had their roots originating from the OT as they are very similar.  If so, then Christianity would have to shoulder part of the blame for these mass murders.

    The Christians here are just as disillusional as raving Islamic fundamentalists, as they are coming up with the same arguments I have heard from Al-Qaeda sympathisers time & time again.  Sad. 

    So bring an argument.  Hypothetical allusions don't count.  Perhaps you could quote an Al-Qaeda sympathiser and show us how it is the same as what I have argued here.

    (I have no idea what 'disillusional' means)



    I think he means delusional, like what you are  Smiley

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #62 - January 12, 2009, 04:01 PM

    Again with the reading.  It doesn't say 'disobey' does it?  It says 'curse' or 'speak evil of'.

    And if it doesn't say children you can't claim that it refers to children.  At best you can say 'I don't know'.  Most of the commands do not specify age but it is clear that most don't refer to children and so I suspect that neither does this one.


    It clearly states if you curse your parents you are to be killed. Children can curse their parents and hence the law applies to everyone who has a parent. And that includes children.

    There is no age limit specified. So anyone who has a parent and curses them are to be killed. This is OT biblical law that Jesus clearly endorses. You are the child of your parent regardless of age. If you curse them you are to be killed.


    Quote
    He states his point - twice:
    Mark 7:9
    You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
    NASU

    Mark 7:12-13
    2 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;  13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that." 
    NASU

    His point is not on 'endorsing' the command to kill those who curse their parents but on the fact that through their tradition, the Pharisees were sanctioning neglect of their parents.  The reference to the OT law is to establish the fact that God wanted them to take care of their parents.



    But he clearly uses this Mosaic law to condemn the Pharisees for not observing god's law. If he did not believe that those who cursed their parents should be killed he could easily have said 'Make sure your offsprings do not curse you. If they do then give them such and such punishment.'

    But instead he says to the Pharisees you are INVALIDATING the word of god by not carrying out the Mosaic punishment of killing your offsprings for cursing you.

    Its plain and simple. Yet you are trying all kinds of word jugglery to defend the indefensible.

    Quote
    Non-sequitor.  His focus is the Pharisees - not his followers - and he is pointing out their hypocrisy (as the passage makes clear on two occasions) - nothing more, nothing less.


    His followers are already following the Mosaic laws. He tells them that they are to follow it to the jot and tittle.

    Because they (his followers) are already following these laws. He does not have to tell them that. They are with him and supporting him as he speaks to the Pharisees condemning them for not following the Mosaic law and giving them an example of a law they no longer follow and telling them they should be following it as opposed to their tradition. He says by not killing their offspring for this crime they are invalidating God's word. Hence if his followers do not follow it either they are also invalidating God's word.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #63 - January 12, 2009, 04:31 PM

    Quote from: a.ghazali
    It clearly states if you curse your parents you are to be killed. Children can curse their parents and hence the law applies to everyone who has a parent. And that includes children.

    There is no age limit specified. So anyone who has a parent and curses them are to be killed. This is OT biblical law that Jesus clearly endorses. You are the child of your parent regardless of age. If you curse them you are to be killed.


    You're being ridiculous.  The laws applied to adults not children.  Find me a single reference which says that children were to be held accountable under Jewish law.

    Quote from: a.ghazali
    But he clearly uses this Mosaic law to condemn the Pharisees for not observing god's law. If he did not believe that those who cursed their parents should be killed he could easily have said 'Make sure your offsprings do not curse you. If they do then give them such and such punishment.'

    He uses the Mosaic law to highlight the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.  The rest is argument from ignorance.  He did not need to issue any clarifications because this was not his point.

    Quote from: a.ghazali
    But instead he says to the Pharisees you are INVALIDATING the word of god by not carrying out the Mosaic punishment of killing your offsprings for cursing you.

    No, 'you are invalidating it by elevating your traditions above care for your parents as commanded by God'.

    Quote from: a.ghazali
    Its plain and simple.

    Indeed it is.  Twice over.

    Quote from: a.ghazali
    His followers are already following the Mosaic laws. He tells them that they are to follow it to the jot and tittle.

    Really, where?

    Quote from: a.ghazali
    Because they (his followers) are already following these laws. He does not have to tell them that. They are with him and supporting him as he speaks to the Pharisees condemning them for not following the Mosaic law and giving them an example of a law they no longer follow and telling them they should be following it as opposed to their tradition. He says by not killing their offspring for this crime they are invalidating God's word. Hence if his followers do not follow it either they are also invalidating God's word.

    More nonsense and argument from ignorance.  He shows the Pharisees their hypocrisy in claiming to follow God while over-riding the law with their own traditions.  That's it.  No command to his followers or the Pharisees.  No commentary on the OT law except to say that it was from God and that it commanded caring for one's parents.  Anything else is not supported by the text.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #64 - January 12, 2009, 04:35 PM

    So it's a vision of God's judgement on Israel - which, as with most judgements, will be pretty terrible.


    Saying it's a vision doesn't make it any more acceptable - sorry. The old Testament is full of the most disgusting and bloodthirsty descriptions of God - call them what you like (and your efforts at making them seem OK sound all too familiar) - the God of the OT is a monster. The same "loving" god of Jesus.

    I think I should have added that the god of Christianity is schizophrenic as well as a blood thirsty child-killer.

  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #65 - January 12, 2009, 04:38 PM

    Good point Berbs.  Christianity has a lot to answer for, including a lot of the quotes in the Quran which have been derived from it. 

    The OT has said much the same as the Quran has.  I wonder if any of the quotes that justified 9/11, had their roots originating from the OT as they are very similar.  If so, then Christianity would have to shoulder part of the blame for these mass murders.

    The Christians here are just as disillusional as raving Islamic fundamentalists, as they are coming up with the same arguments I have heard from Al-Qaeda sympathisers time & time again.  Sad. 

    So bring an argument.  Hypothetical allusions don't count.  Perhaps you could quote an Al-Qaeda sympathiser and show us how it is the same as what I have argued here.



    The reason I did not use my time in digging out quotes from the bible, was because the last time we discussed your views on homesexuality, you chose not to answer the question.  

    As you have asked for quotes that remind me of Al-Qaeda rhetoric, please find below:

    ?When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
    ?When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you? Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deuteronomy 20:10-17)
     
    This time in the New Testament, Jesus says to his disciples:
    ?I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

    Christianity - religion of peace?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #66 - January 12, 2009, 04:51 PM

    (I have no idea what 'disillusional' means)


    ok, here is the definition

    dis?il?lu?sion (ds-lzhn)
    tr.v. dis?il?lu?sioned, dis?il?lu?sion?ing, dis?il?lu?sions
    To free or deprive of illusion.
    n.
    1. The act of disenchanting.
    2. The condition or fact of being disenchanted.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #67 - January 12, 2009, 04:55 PM

    I don't think disillusional is a word.  It should be disillusioned.  [/nitpick].

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #68 - January 12, 2009, 04:59 PM

    More nonsense and argument from ignorance.  He shows the Pharisees their hypocrisy in claiming to follow God while over-riding the law with their own traditions.  That's it.  No command to his followers or the Pharisees.  No commentary on the OT law except to say that it was from God and that it commanded caring for one's parents.  Anything else is not supported by the text.


    I think I'd best leave you in your delusion. Justify as much as you like but the verses are plain and simple for any rational person to decipher.

    It does not make sense continuing to spin top in mud with you. We get nowhere. Everyone can clearly see what Jesus said, to whom and what he meant.

    If covering it up makes you sleep better at night I understand.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #69 - January 12, 2009, 05:10 PM


    Good point Berbs.  Christianity has a lot to answer for, including a lot of the quotes in the Quran which have been derived from it. 

    The OT has said much the same as the Quran has.  I wonder if any of the quotes that justified 9/11, had their roots originating from the OT as they are very similar.  If so, then Christianity would have to shoulder part of the blame for these mass murders.

    The Christians here are just as disillusional as raving Islamic fundamentalists, as they are coming up with the same arguments I have heard from Al-Qaeda sympathisers time & time again.  Sad. 

    So bring an argument.  Hypothetical allusions don't count.  Perhaps you could quote an Al-Qaeda sympathiser and show us how it is the same as what I have argued here.



    The reason I did not use my time in digging out quotes from the bible, was because the last time we discussed your views on homesexuality, you chose not to answer the question.  

    As you have asked for quotes that remind me of Al-Qaeda rhetoric, please find below:

    "When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
    "When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you? Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deuteronomy 20:10-17)
     
    This time in the New Testament, Jesus says to his disciples:
    "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

    Christianity - religion of peace?


    Question marks removed

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #70 - January 12, 2009, 05:21 PM

    So it's a vision of God's judgement on Israel - which, as with most judgements, will be pretty terrible.


    Saying it's a vision doesn't make it any more acceptable - sorry. The old Testament is full of the most disgusting and bloodthirsty descriptions of God - call them what you like (and your efforts at making them seem OK sound all too familiar) - the God of the OT is a monster. The same "loving" god of Jesus.

    I think I should have added that the god of Christianity is schizophrenic as well as a blood thirsty child-killer.

    What do you mean 'seem OK'.  I just said that God judges people and sometimes whole societies.  I have no problem leaving that responsibility to God - especially a God who sent his son into that world and suffered at its hands. 

    Your emotional response is neither here nor there and does not constitute a rational argument. 

    There is no contradiction between a God who judges people and a God of love. The very existence of this evil and the reality of the judgement was why Jesus came to die for us.  Jesus had no problems talking about judgement either and seems to have seen things in much the same terms.  So no schizophrenia either.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #71 - January 12, 2009, 05:26 PM

    Good point Berbs.  Christianity has a lot to answer for, including a lot of the quotes in the Quran which have been derived from it. 

    The OT has said much the same as the Quran has.  I wonder if any of the quotes that justified 9/11, had their roots originating from the OT as they are very similar.  If so, then Christianity would have to shoulder part of the blame for these mass murders.

    The Christians here are just as disillusional as raving Islamic fundamentalists, as they are coming up with the same arguments I have heard from Al-Qaeda sympathisers time & time again.  Sad. 

    So bring an argument.  Hypothetical allusions don't count.  Perhaps you could quote an Al-Qaeda sympathiser and show us how it is the same as what I have argued here.


    The reason I did not use my time in digging out quotes from the bible, was because the last time we discussed your views on homesexuality, you chose not to answer the question.  

    And I gave you a reason.  A reason which would not generally apply here. Although the lack of reasoned responses does make me wonder.

    Quote from: IsLame
    As you have asked for quotes that remind me of Al-Qaeda rhetoric, please find below:


    No, I asked you for quotes from Al Qaeda sympathisers that show that the arguments are the same.  However your Luke 19 quote is revealing that your understanding of the bible doesn't rank much above AG's.

    Edited to fix quotes.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #72 - January 12, 2009, 05:30 PM

    More nonsense and argument from ignorance.  He shows the Pharisees their hypocrisy in claiming to follow God while over-riding the law with their own traditions.  That's it.  No command to his followers or the Pharisees.  No commentary on the OT law except to say that it was from God and that it commanded caring for one's parents.  Anything else is not supported by the text.


    I think I'd best leave you in your delusion. Justify as much as you like but the verses are plain and simple for any rational person to decipher.

    It does not make sense continuing to spin top in mud with you. We get nowhere. Everyone can clearly see what Jesus said, to whom and what he meant.

    If covering it up makes you sleep better at night I understand.

    Jesus mentions the point he is making - illustrates it with an example - and then mentions the point again.  Your attempts to make it mean something else (that Jesus wants his followers to kill their 'disobedient' 'children') just demonstrate your desperation - again.

    The only thing that causes me to lose sleep is worrying about how flimsy your worldview must be if it based on reasoning like this!

    Edited for typo
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #73 - January 12, 2009, 05:35 PM

    OK Sparky, but I still would be interested in your explanation of the following:

    "When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

    "When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you? Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deuteronomy 20:10-17)
     
    This time in the New Testament, Jesus says to his disciples:
    "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #74 - January 12, 2009, 06:00 PM

    OK Sparky, but I still would be interested in your explanation of the following:

    "When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

    "When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you? Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deuteronomy 20:10-17)
     
    This time in the New Testament, Jesus says to his disciples:
    "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)


    I'm not inclined to do this until you have bothered to do a bit of research yourself, express an opinion on them and tell me why you think they are problematic.

    A key example is the Luke 19 verse.  It is cropped from a parable and spoken by a character in the parable.  Have a look at the parable and tell me what you think it means and if Jesus is really commanding his disciples to go out and kill his enemies.

    I would also suggest that if you are not willing to provide evidence that you withdraw your 'al Qaeda sympathisers' comment.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #75 - January 12, 2009, 06:01 PM

    OK, I have now added references to the video itself (annotations is very useful)

    These were most of the quotes I referred to:

    Exodus 32:27;

    "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel: Put every man his sword by his thigh and go to and from from gate to gate, throughout the camp, and SLAY every man, his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor....and there fell of the people on that day about three thousand men."


    Deuteronomy

    13:13 [Certain] men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

    13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, [if it be] truth, [and] the thing certain, [that] such abomination is wrought among you;

    13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.



    Deuteronomy:
    22:20  But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:   
    22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.   


    Samuel 15:3  Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.


    II Chronicles 15:13
    That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.


    Isaiah 14:21  Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers.


    1 Samuel 15:2-3 This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'


    Jeremiah 48:10
    Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.


    Ezekiel 35:7-9 I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #76 - January 12, 2009, 06:06 PM

    Load and loads more quotes here:

    http://www.evilbible.com/

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html

    Smiley
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #77 - January 12, 2009, 06:11 PM

    You have to put it in context Hassan, it was only for that time and place, god is love at all other times.  Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #78 - January 12, 2009, 06:19 PM

    You have to put it in context Hassan, it was only for that time and place, god is love at all other times.  Tongue


    I'm still waiting for anyone to enlighten me as to what context could make those passages acceptable.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #79 - January 12, 2009, 06:24 PM

    You have to put it in context Hassan, it was only for that time and place, god is love at all other times.  Tongue


    I'm still waiting for anyone to enlighten me as to what context could make those passages acceptable.

    I responded to the one passage you mentioned.  'Acceptable' in the context of this discussion means only 'do they contradict anything else that the bible teaches about God?'.  Otherwise it is your personal emotional criteria that has no relevance to anyone but yourself.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #80 - January 12, 2009, 06:26 PM

    You have to put it in context Hassan, it was only for that time and place, god is love at all other times.  Tongue


    I'm still waiting for anyone to enlighten me as to what context could make those passages acceptable.

    I responded to the one passage you mentioned.  'Acceptable' in the context of this discussion means only 'do they contradict anything else that the bible teaches about God?'.  Otherwise it is your personal emotional criteria that has no relevance to anyone but yourself.


    Sure.  I'm the only person in the world who thinks that death by stoning is cruel and unusual punishment, or that execution by any means for not being a virgin on your wedding night is unjust.   

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #81 - January 12, 2009, 06:29 PM

    You have to put it in context Hassan, it was only for that time and place, god is love at all other times.  Tongue


    lol... yep, context makes it all better  Wink
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #82 - January 12, 2009, 06:31 PM

    More good quotes:

    http://home.earthlink.net/~owl233/biblequotes.htm

    On Punishing ?Immorality?

    Leviticus 20:9   If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
    20:10    If a man commits adultery with another man?s wife?with the wife of his neighbor?both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
    20:13    If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
    Deuteronomy 22:20-1    If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl?s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father?s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father?s house.

    Exodus 35:2   For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

    On Destroying Other People
    Deuteronomy 7:1-2    When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
    20:10-17    When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
         However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them?the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites?as the Lord your God has commanded you.

    On the Evil of Biblical Law
    Ezekiel 20:25-26    I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts?the sacrifice of every firstborn?that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.

    On Slavery & Subjugation of Women
    Ephesians 5:22-24    Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
    Exodus 21:20-21    If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
    1 Peter 2:13    Submit yourselves for the Lord?s sake to every authority instituted among men.
    2:18    Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

    Leviticus 25:44-45
       Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

    Jesus, on His Second Coming

    Matthew 24:29-34
       [T]he sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. . . . They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. . . . I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. [Emphasis added.]

    16:27-28
       For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father?s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

    Scientific Errors
    (1) Rabbits don?t chew cud.

    Deuteronomy 14:6-7
       You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.
    (2) No insects (including grasshoppers) are 4-legged.

    Leviticus 11:20-22
       All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.
    (3) This is only possible on a flat earth.

    Matthew 4:8
       Again the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
    (4) pi does not = 3.

    1 Kings 7:23
       He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim . . . It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.
    (5) The earth moves. It does not have a foundation.

    Psalms 104:5
       He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

    Selected Contradictions
    (1)
    2 Kings 2:11    As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
    John 3:13    No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven?the Son of Man.
    (2)
    Numbers 23:19    God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
    Exodus 32:14    Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.
    (3)
    Ephesians 2:8-9    For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith . . . not by works.
    James 2:14-17    What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? . . . Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
    Revelation 22:12    Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.
    (4) (Jesus speaking)
    Matthew 5:16    Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your father in heaven.
    Matthew 6:1    Be careful not to do your ?acts of righteousness? before men, to be seen by them.
    (5) (Jesus speaking)
    John 14:27    Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.
    Matthew 10:34    Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
    (6)
    Genesis 32:30    So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, ?It is because I saw God face to face, and my life was preserved.?
    Exodus 33:11    The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.
    John 1:18    No one has ever seen God.
    (7) (Jesus speaking)
    John 5:31    If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
    John 8:14    Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #83 - January 12, 2009, 06:52 PM

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html

    Bible Atrocities
    Compiled by Donald Morgan

    Note: In the Bible, words having to do with killing significantly outnumber words having to do with love.

    GE 3:1-7, 22-24 God allows Adam and Eve to be deceived by the Serpent (the craftiest of all of God's wild creatures). They eat of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," thereby incurring death for themselves and all of mankind for ever after. God prevents them from regaining eternal life, by placing a guard around the "Tree of Eternal Life." (Note: God could have done the same for the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" in the first place and would thereby have prevented the Fall of man, the necessity for Salvation, the Crucifixion of Jesus, etc.)

    GE 4:2-8 God's arbitrary preference of Abel's offering to that of Cain's provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother Abel.

    GE 34:13-29 The Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of their village, taking as plunder their wealth, cattle, wives and children.

    GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

    GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

    GE 38:9 "... whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked ..., so the Lord put him to death."

    EX 2:12 Moses murders an Egyptian.

    EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows:
    to show that he is Lord;
    to show that there is none like him in all the earth;
    to show his great power;
    to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth;
    to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children;
    to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.

    EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

    EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

    EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.

    EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.

    EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

    EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

    LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."

    LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

    LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

    LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

    NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

    NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

    NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.

    NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

    NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

    NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

    NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

    NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

    NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."

    NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

    NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly."

    NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

    NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.

    NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)

    NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

    DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

    DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

    DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and shown "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.

    DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

    DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

    DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

    DT 28:53 "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you."

    JS 1:1-9, 18 Joshua receives the Lord's blessing for all the bloody endeavors to follow.

    JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho men, women, and children with the edge of the sword.

    JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

    JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

    JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

    JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

    JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

    JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

    JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

    JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

    JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

    JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

    JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

    JS 11:8-15 "And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, ...utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ...."

    JS 11:20 "For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses."

    JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

    JG 1:4 With the Lord's support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

    JG 1:6 With the Lord's approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

    JG 1:8 With the Lord's approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

    JG 1:17 With the Lord's approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

    JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

    JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

    JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

    JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

    JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

    JG 9:5 Abimalech murders his brothers.

    JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

    JG 9:53-54 "A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, 'Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say a woman killed me.' So his servant ran him through, and he died."

    JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

    JG 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

    JG 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.

    JG 16:21 The Philistines gouge out Samson's eyes.

    JG 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

    JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

    JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

    JG 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ "men of valor" from amongst the Benjamites, "men and beasts and all that they found," and set their towns on fire.

    JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

    1SA 4:10 The Philistines slay 30,000 Israelite foot soldiers.

    1SA 5:6-9 The Lord afflicts the Philistines with tumors in their "secret parts," presumably for having stolen the Ark.

    1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

    1SA 7:7-11 Samuel and his men smite the Philistines.

    1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

    1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

    1SA 14:48 Saul smites the Amalekites.

    1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

    1SA 15:33 "Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord ...."

    1SA 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: "Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands."

    1SA 18:27 David murders 200 Philistines, then cuts off their foreskins.

    1SA 30:17 David smites the Amalekites.

    2SA 2:23 Abner kills Asahel.

    2SA 3:30 Joab and Abishai kill Abner.

    2SA 4:7-8 Rechan and Baanah kill Ish-bosheth, behead him, and take his head to David.

    2SA 4:12 David has Rechan and Baanah killed, their hands and feet cut off, and their bodies hanged by the pool at Hebron.

    2SA 5:25 "And David did as the Lord commanded him, and smote the Philistines ...."

    2SA 6:2-23 Because she rebuked him for having exposed himself, Michal (David's wife) was barren throughout her life.

    2SA 8:1-18 (A listing of some of David's murderous conquests.)

    2SA 8:4 David hamstrung all but a few of the horses.

    2SA 8:5 David slew 22,000 Syrians.

    2SA 8:6, 14 "The Lord gave victory to David wherever he went."

    2SA 8:13 David slew 18,000 Edomites in the valley of salt and made the rest slaves.

    2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.

    2SA 11:14-27 David has Uriah killed so that he can marry Uriah's wife, Bathsheba.

    2SA 12:1, 19 The Lord strikes David's child dead for the sin that David has committed.

    2SA 13:1-15 Amnon loves his sister Tamar, rapes her, then hates her.

    2SA 13:28-29 Absalom has Amnon murdered.

    2SA 18:6 -7 20,000 men are slaughtered at the battle in the forest of Ephraim.

    2SA 18:15 Joab's men murder Absalom.

    2SA 20:10-12 Joab's men murder Amasa and leave him "... wallowing in his own blood in the highway. And anyone who came by, seeing him, stopped."

    2SA 24:15 The Lord sends a pestilence on Israel that kills 70,000 men.

    1KI 2:24-25 Solomon has Adonijah murdered.

    1KI 2:29-34 Solomon has Joab murdered.

    1KI 2:46 Solomon has Shime-i murdered.

    1KI 13:15-24 A man is killed by a lion for eating bread and drinking water in a place where the Lord had previously told him not to. This is in spite of the fact that the man had subsequently been lied to by a prophet who told the man that an angel of the Lord said that it would be alright to eat and drink there.

    1KI 20:29-30 The Israelites smite 100,000 Syrian soldiers in one day. A wall falls on 27,000 remaining Syrians.

    2KI 1:10-12 Fire from heaven comes down and consumes fifty men.

    2KI 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

    2KI 5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

    2KI 6:18-19 The Lord answers Elisha's prayer and strikes the Syrians with blindness. Elisha tricks the blind Syrians and leads them to Samaria.

    2KI 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

    2KI 9:24 Jehu tricks and murders Joram.

    2KI 9:27 Jehu has Ahaziah killed.

    2KI 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

    2KI 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

    2KI 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab's kin killed.

    2KI 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

    2KI 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

    2KI 11:1 Athaliah destroys all the royal family.

    2KI 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

    2KI 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the "high places."

    2KI 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

    2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

    1CH 20:3 (KJV) "And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes."

    2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

    2CH 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

    PS 137:9 Happy will be the man who dashes your little ones against the stones.

    PS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.

    IS 13:15 "Everyone who is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

    IS 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children."

    IS 14:21-22 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

    IS 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite's to eat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

    JE 16:4 "They shall die grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth."

    LA 4:9-10 "Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of famine; racked with hunger, they waste away for lack of food. ... pitiful women have cooked their own children, who became their food ..."

    EZ 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ...."

    EZ 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

    EZ 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

    EZ 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

    EZ 23:25, 47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.

    EZ 23:34 "You shall ... pluck out your hair, and tear your breasts."

    HO 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

    MI 3:2-3 "... who pluck off their skin ..., and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron."

    MT 3:12, 8:12, 10:21, 13:30, 42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, LK 13:28, JN 5:24 Some will spend eternity burning in Hell. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    MT 10:21 "... the brother shall deliver up his brother to death, and the father his child, ... children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

    MT 10:35-36 "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man's enemies will be the members of his own family."

    MT 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

    AC 13:11 Paul purposefully blinds a man (though not permanently).
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #84 - January 12, 2009, 07:00 PM

    Watchdogs reject blasphemy complaint
    Quote
    Broadcasting watchdogs have rejected hundreds of complaints that a Rowan Atkinson sketch was blasphemous.

    Christian Voice zealot Stephen Green led the campaign against the spoof Bible reading, which was part of the We Are Most Amused gala show for the Prince Of Wales?s 60th birthday in November.

    The sketch, which Atkinson has been performing for more than 20 years, retells the story of Jesus?s miracles at the wedding feast in Cana as if they were magic tricks.

    After the monologue was aired on ITV1, Ofcom received 540 complaints that it was offensive and blasphemous. The watchdog noted: ?There was evidence that the complaints were part of an orchestrated campaign.?

    As is often the case, the complainants said it was unfair that the comedy targeted Christianity, whereas a similar sketch about Islam would not be permissible.

    However, Ofcom said their role is not to determine whether ITV committed blasphemy, but whether the Broadcasting Code had been breached.

    In rejecting the complaints today, the watchdog said: ?The sketch was an absurd interpretation of a well-known biblical miracle story, and was not intended as a serious interpretation of Christian belief, nor would it be realistic to make such an inference. The overall tone of the sketch was affectionate and not abusive of the Christian religion.?

    It concluded: ?The approach would have been well understood by the vast majority of the audience and would not have gone beyond what would normally be expected in a programme of this type.?

    Christian Voice distributed an email at the time the sketch was broadcasting, urging its supporters to contact Ofcom over the ?insulting, mocking, crass and disrespectful? comedy.

    It added: ?Civilised, decent people do not behave like that? He [Atkinson] wouldn't come on dressed as an Imam and ridicule something in the Koran, he evidently thinks Christianity is a softer touch than Islam.?

    And it claimed ?It would not have been clear to someone unfamiliar with the scriptures what was from the Bible and what was not.?

    However, the organisation did approve of one comic on the bill, noting: ?That comedy can be clean, respectful and side-splittingly funny was shown earlier in the evening by Bill Bailey in a brilliant musical piece of solo stand-up comedy.?

    When it was censured by the Adverting Standards Authority last month over its unsubstantiated claims that a vaccine against cervical cancer caused infertility in teenagers, Christian Voice was quick to complain that ?freedom of speech and free expression of opinion? should not be outlawed.

    Here is Atkinson performing the sketch on an earlier tour.


    you can view the vidoe on youtube ...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y353tLDzfAw&eurl

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #85 - January 12, 2009, 07:14 PM

    Christian Voice zealot Stephen Green


    I saw Stephen Green on that Dispatches program and when he was campaigning against the Jerry Springer show - and he scares me. He became angry and violent at the reporter and then started laughing and joking - I think he's not all there.

    It's sad to see that he actually succeeded in getting that show stopped. It's good that the Rowan Atkinson video was not banned, but it is very disturbing that such lunatics are even being listened to.

  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #86 - January 12, 2009, 07:32 PM

    Can you please include links instead of posting long, long articles? It makes me dizzy to scroll past them..

    Quote from: Donald Morgan
    NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

    That's my favourite bit.. why the specific number? It's not like the almighty God would engineer his plague to kill exactly 14,700 people --would he? Maybe he's trying to reduce the number of Israelites to a round, nice figure. Like perhaps 33,333 or 100,000..

     Thread sneaker

     

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #87 - January 12, 2009, 07:33 PM


    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #88 - January 12, 2009, 07:40 PM

    Well sure the bible looks kinda bad when you actually read it and interpret the words the way they were intended.

    But didn't Christianity go through a reformation, which now gives anybody the luxury of discarding any obvious junk in there while maintaining some kind of spiritual significance to the parts they like?

    No Christian today is pro-stoning no matter what it says in the Bible.

    I asked my Catholic mother if she believed in the immaculate conception and she said "it seems a little far fetched." Far fetched? It's one of the pillars of Christianity!

    The churches are full of agnostic hypocrites who attend the weekly social gatherings out of habit and to make a good appearance.

    A very small minority of "Christians" actually read the bible expecting to get something relevant from it. They simply endure their hour every Sunday and hope that they get credit for it in the end.

    B ::)B

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Readings from the "Holy Book"
     Reply #89 - January 12, 2009, 07:51 PM

    You have to put it in context Hassan, it was only for that time and place, god is love at all other times.  Tongue


    I'm still waiting for anyone to enlighten me as to what context could make those passages acceptable.

    I responded to the one passage you mentioned.  'Acceptable' in the context of this discussion means only 'do they contradict anything else that the bible teaches about God?'.  Otherwise it is your personal emotional criteria that has no relevance to anyone but yourself.


    Sure.  I'm the only person in the world who thinks that death by stoning is cruel and unusual punishment, or that execution by any means for not being a virgin on your wedding night is unjust.   

    You don't have to be the only person for appeal to ridicule still to be a logical fallacy.  And if you want to argue 'unjust' the only basis is in the context of that in which the command was given.  Was is 'unjust' to the Israelites?
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