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 Topic: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?

 (Read 11013 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     OP - January 14, 2009, 11:40 AM

    ISRAEL does it have a right to exist? or Not?

    Do you support 2 state solution or No?

    Interested in reading your opinions.

  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #1 - January 14, 2009, 11:46 AM

    It exists. Get over it. Two state solution FTW. parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #2 - January 14, 2009, 11:47 AM

    It does have a right to exist now, although I believe it has taken far too much land, and left pittance for the palestinians.  So I support a 67 borders being given back to them.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #3 - January 14, 2009, 11:49 AM

    Yeah but before the 67 borders would work you'd have to persuade the Islamic militants to give it the fuck up. Without that there is zero chance of Israel accepting a return to 67 borders. Far too dangerous for them.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #4 - January 14, 2009, 11:51 AM

    Basically, I have always seen Muslims calling out for destruction of Israel, not a 2 state solution. And I can understand their reaction at present after reading abt Gaza crisis etc.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #5 - January 14, 2009, 11:54 AM

    What enrages me is some Christians and few Jews I know, they say 'Israel should exist because God has given Israel to Jews.'

    If someoen says 'Hitorically Jews belong to that land, they suffered beyond limits in WW II, and they should be given back their land.' It is alright but 'God' factor enrages me.

    I mean according to Hindu scriptures, 'India is from Afghanistan to Burma', should we allow India to capture all those lands? According to Muslim scriptures, Once a land is conquered by Muslims, it remains so forever. So shall we give back Spain to Muslims?
    Why do those ppl think their scripture is any more important than other scriptures?

    But, I forgot, it is True !!!!!!!! yes

  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #6 - January 14, 2009, 11:55 AM

    Yeah but before the 67 borders would work you'd have to persuade the Islamic militants to give it the fuck up. Without that there is zero chance of Israel accepting a return to 67 borders. Far too dangerous for them.


    True. banghead

    Doesn't Hamas say it would accept peace with the 67 borders?  or do you think it's just a ploy?

    It would be pretty hard for Hamas to drum up international sympathy if they were given the 67 borders and still continued being assholes.  wacko

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #7 - January 14, 2009, 11:55 AM

    What enrages me is some Christians and few Jews I know, they say 'Israel should exist because God has given Israel to Jews.'

    If someoen says 'Hitorically Jews belong to that land, they suffered beyond limits in WW II, and they should be given back their land.' It is alright but 'God' factor enrages me.





    Well god gave me the seychelles, I have no idea why no one recognises my right to it.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #8 - January 14, 2009, 11:58 AM

    Yeah but before the 67 borders would work you'd have to persuade the Islamic militants to give it the fuck up. Without that there is zero chance of Israel accepting a return to 67 borders. Far too dangerous for them.


    True. banghead

    Doesn't Hamas say it would accept peace with the 67 borders?  or do you think it's just a ploy?

    It would be pretty hard for Hamas to drum up international sympathy if they were given the 67 borders and still continued being assholes.  wacko

    Well their charter certainly doesn't say that and they've shown no signs of revising it.

    But yeah, if they were given 67 borders and kept firing rockets into Israel the Israelis would go apeshit. It'd be the Six Day War all over again and we'd be back to square one.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #9 - January 14, 2009, 12:00 PM

    Yeah, Hamas is no less. Only if they stopped firing Rockets. But, finally Gazan civillans suffer.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #10 - January 14, 2009, 12:03 PM

    Well their charter certainly doesn't say that and they've shown no signs of revising it.


    Google search Hamas 67 borders

    Quote

    But yeah, if they were given 67 borders and kept firing rockets into Israel the Israelis would go apeshit. It'd be the Six Day War all over again and we'd be back to square one.


    We would, but it would be alot harder for dipshits to lay the blame at israels door yet again.

    Political mine field that it is. banghead  wacko

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #11 - January 14, 2009, 12:16 PM

    Have you read the first link?

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/04/2008615098393788.html


    ETA: The Hamas Charter: http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

    Until they rewrite or revoke that they cannot be trusted at all.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #12 - January 14, 2009, 12:16 PM

    They should go back to the 1026 BC border.

    I don't agree with what they are doing but I understand it. Jews place Israel and Jewish people's interest at the top of their priority.

    On the question of is it their land or not. Should the Americans give the land back to the native Indians? Should the British give land back to the Celts? A lot of people are living on land that never belonged to their ancestors.

    oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!"
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #13 - January 14, 2009, 02:09 PM

    Isreal has a right to exist.
    I support a two state 1967 solution.
    (Better yet, I have my own peace plan.)
    http://infidelbob.blogspot.com/2006/07/bobs-peace-plan.html

    They were almost there with in Camp David. Hopefully Obama with the World's help can get them back there.

    Yes there are Palestinians that want it all and yes there are Israelis who want it all.

    These people must be sidelined. Israel should pull the settlements out of the west bank. The west bank ruled by the Palestinian Authority has behaved well recently considering the current provication.

    Isreal has over used it's stick (Killing a thousand people to stop rockets that kill less than a handful a year). It is time to give up some carrot.

    B:wacko:B

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #14 - January 14, 2009, 03:54 PM

    Isreal has a right to exist.
    I support a two state 1967 solution.
    (Better yet, I have my own peace plan.)
    http://infidelbob.blogspot.com/2006/07/bobs-peace-plan.html

    They were almost there with in Camp David. Hopefully Obama with the World's help can get them back there.

    Yes there are Palestinians that want it all and yes there are Israelis who want it all.

    These people must be sidelined. Israel should pull the settlements out of the west bank. The west bank ruled by the Palestinian Authority has behaved well recently considering the current provocation.

    Isreal has over used it's stick (Killing a thousand people to stop rockets that kill less than a handful a year). It is time to give up some carrot.

    B:wacko:B


    I think this is a very good post but and I'm inclined to agree but I would like to ask a different question.

    Does Israel 'ever' have the right to defend itself or are any Palestinian deaths instantly a war crime?

    Up until now Israel has stayed it's hand as Hamas attacks repeatedly.

    It seems to me that people talk about Israel accepting a certain amount of death but any Palestinian deaths are too many. The world is tolerant of a certain amount of Jewish carnage but it will not accept any Palestinian deaths without uproar.

    If two Palestinians are killed this is a war crime, if sixty are killed this is a massacre, if seven hundred are killed it is a genocide equated to the liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto. All this outrage when a real genocide is going on in Darfur. What has happened to us that this minor conflict inspires such hysterical hyperbole?

    David Aaronovitch recently wrote in the Times.

    "For months - years even - the historical twinning that some campaigners have chosen for the situation in Gaza has been with the Warsaw ghetto. There'll probably be a sign up soon, because in the past week Ken Livingstone, the activist-musician Brian Eno and George Galloway have all made the comparison.

    ?Gaza is a ghetto,? said Mr Livingstone, "in exactly the same way that the Warsaw Ghetto was, and people are trapped in it?; while Eno predicted: ?They [the Israelis] will continue to create a Warsaw Ghetto in the Middle East.? The less-restrained Mr Galloway pronounced: ?Those murdering them [the occupants of Gaza] are the equivalent of those who murdered the Jews in Warsaw in 1942.?

    Busy people sometimes hurry their reading. Mr Galloway, for example, may only have skimmed the day-by-day reports made by SS Brigadef?hrer J?rgen Stroop on the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943. On the third day of the operation Stroop tells how ?large numbers of Jews - entire families - already on fire, jumped from the windows. We made sure that these, as well as the other Jews, were liquidated immediately.?

    Stroop's operation was made necessary because the inhabitants of the ghetto took up what few arms they had, having already seen more than half their number transported to extermination camps - a figure which, if translated into Gaza terms, would mean the deliberate killing of 500,000 Palestinians"

    I think people are far too eager to condemn the Israelis and far to willing to understand or even support Hamas.

    Is there any equanimity in this dispute and why do so many liberals side with the racist theocrats and condemn the liberal democracy?

    Has the world gone completely mad?

  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #15 - January 14, 2009, 04:25 PM

    ISRAEL does it have a right to exist? or Not?

    Do you support 2 state solution or No?

    Interested in reading your opinions.




    ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?

    Yes

    Do you support 2 state solution?

    Yes
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #16 - January 14, 2009, 04:27 PM

    Hassan,
    I remember, you father actively took part for free palestine, right?
    I think current Israeli atrocity is too much. Hamas is no good, but I feel very bad when civillians suffer.

    ISRAEL does it have a right to exist? or Not?

    Do you support 2 state solution or No?

    Interested in reading your opinions.




    ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?

    Yes

    Do you support 2 state solution?

    Yes

  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #17 - January 14, 2009, 04:43 PM

    Hassan,
    I remember, you father actively took part for free palestine, right?


    Yes, my father fought against Israel when it was declared in 1948.

    I think current Israeli atrocity is too much. Hamas is no good, but I feel very bad when civillians suffer.


    Of course! It is distressing beyond words, but we've been here before. Israel has continued to take more and more land, farms and houses. Their soldiers harass and make life impossible for the Palestinians. They protect the settlers even though the settlers are extremely racist and take pride in stirring up trouble. They have been using an Iron Fist policy from day one and respond to attacks (I'm not defending the attacks) with brutal force that goes far beyond any acceptable use of force, taking no care not to kill civilians.

    Sure Hamas are extremists. Like most Arabs they are already deluded by the religion of Islam - this added hopelessness and desperation makes many go further and further into extremism and see nothing but glorious martydom.

    Extremism breeds extremism and hopelessness breeds desperate behaviour. The Israelis will get away with what they can, if no-one will stop them. The only people who can stop them are America. When America refuse to even condemn Israel's behaviour what hope do the Palestinians have that they will ever get a just peace.

    If Israel - or America pushing Israel - make a real effort for a truly just peace, stop all the settlements and crazy settlers and give something to the moderates that they can convince the people they have something worth "living" for - then we may one day have a solution.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #18 - January 14, 2009, 05:16 PM

    Nice reply Hassan.
    Well, Extremist on both side should be put aside. And sane ppl should think that both Palestine and Israel will exist, without calling for destruction of each other.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #19 - January 14, 2009, 05:43 PM


    The world is tolerant of a certain amount of Jewish carnage but it will not accept any Palestinian deaths without uproar.



    I think the Palestinians have consistantly dieing at a higher rate than the jews, without much worldwide outrage. I'm also think that if Hamas was more adept at killing Israeli citizens and managed to kill them in the hundreds or thousands that the world would be equally appauled.

    Quote
    If two Palestinians are killed this is a war crime, if sixty are killed this is a massacre, if seven hundred are killed it is a genocide equated to the liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto. All this outrage when a real genocide is going on in Darfur. What has happened to us that this minor conflict inspires such hysterical hyperbole?


    What is happening in Gaza is not as bad as Darfur. Yes the world (especially arab) press focuses more on this conflict. It is not as bad as the nazi holocaust. Comparing it to the holocaust is propoganda.

    Quote
    "Mr Galloway, for example...:,


    I won't be defending this idiot today.

    Quote
    I think people are far too eager to condemn the Israelis and far to willing to understand or even support Hamas. Is there any equanimity in this dispute and why do so many liberals side with the racist theocrats and condemn the liberal democracy?


    I have been hesitant to criticize Isreal. Their liberal democracy is much better than the Palestinian broken attempt at democracy. It is important to try and understand Hamas even if you do not support them.

    BRoll EyesB
    What am I doing wrong with these smileys?

    [/quote]

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #20 - January 14, 2009, 06:59 PM

     Cheesy

    To post a smiley is simple, you just click the smiley in question, or click for more smileys in order to get the pop up window with a whole bunch more.

    If you do want to type it out, then you have to place it within 2 of these :.......:

    Ie:

    :bunny:

    bunny

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #21 - January 14, 2009, 07:36 PM

     thnkyu

    BSmileyB

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #22 - January 14, 2009, 07:39 PM

    A lot of people are living on land that never belonged to their ancestors.


    phew, that's alright then Afro

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #23 - January 14, 2009, 07:45 PM

    Basically, I have always seen Muslims calling out for destruction of Israel, not a 2 state solution. And I can understand their reaction at present after reading abt Gaza crisis etc.

    In what way did their reaction change after Gaza? Weren't they already polarized for and against? d

    Don't you think it is beneficial for the Palestinians to realize that the Arabs are useless to them?

    Don't you think it is beneficial for the Palestinians to realize that an islamic government spells misery?

    Don't you think it is beneficial for the Palestinians to realize that the Arab leaders will not stand by an islamic government?

    You think if the Mexicans kept nagging the US to get Texas back, and lob missiles at the States, it will be beneficial for the Mexicans? What chance will the mexicans stand and what will they gain relative to their losses?

    You think it will work if every morning you walked in on a lion after he had his meal and b1tchslapped it? How many days you think you might get to live? How many tries will the lion let you? You think people outside the zoo will blame the lion if it attacks you? They might even think the lion was particularly humane, if it only bites u a bit before kicking you out of its cage.

    Israel is the lion (and supported by another lion) So stop b1tchslapping it.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #24 - January 14, 2009, 08:02 PM

    This isn't the lion Baal, it's the lion's cub. Let's see what happens when we get the new keeper in the lionhouse.
    Israel knew it had to act before next week. It's all been worked out to a carefully timed schedule.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #25 - January 15, 2009, 12:33 AM

    I support the two state solution with the 67 borders but Hamas would have to disarm, acknowledge Israels legitimacy and renounce violence before Israel will ever let it happen.

    Hamas due to their ignorant religiosity will never do this so unless Israel is prepared to accept living next door to a antisemitic, genocidal, Islamist state emboldened by what they would see as an Israeli retreat I can see no end to this situation.

    Israel could defy the fundamentalist messianic settlers they did it in Gaza and more recently Hebron but something tells me Fatah and all the peaceful Palestinian civilians could not defy the Islamic fundamentalists in their midst. The Islamists have too much support globally.

    I'm sorry to have to do this but it is a fervent well supported violent Islam which is the problem in the Middle East not a handful of messianic Jews or the IDF.

    Two states YES, 67 borders YES but Hamas has too go the way of the dinosaurs.........
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #26 - January 15, 2009, 12:57 PM

    I support the two state solution with the 67 borders


    I do too - but I don't believe Israel will accept that. They have been working hard for years to ensure the reality on the ground will give them much more than that IF they were ever in a position where they would have to accept a two state solution.

    As long as Hamas and other extremists keep doing what extremists do, they can continue to defer and postpone serious efforts and the USA won't push them.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #27 - January 15, 2009, 04:08 PM

    Hass, your the man that moderated my view of Islam.

    I respect you mightily but do you really think that Israel has expansion on it's mind not defense and ultimately cessation of hostility?

    Yes in the past they played the Biblical messianic piper but they haven't been playing that dead end for at least a ten year stretch.

    On the whole they are a secular nation.

    I think the pull out of Gaza was the proof positive that Israel is serious about peace.

    The transformation of Gaza from illegal Israeli settlement in to a genocidal Islamist HQ explains Israels recent action.

    Israels recent action is not about reclaiming Gaza and killing civilians and expanding Israel. It's purely defense.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #28 - January 15, 2009, 05:28 PM



    I think the pull out of Gaza was the proof positive that Israel is serious about peace.

    The transformation of Gaza from illegal Israeli settlement in to a genocidal Islamist HQ explains Israels recent action.

    Israels recent action is not about reclaiming Gaza and killing civilians and expanding Israel. It's purely defense.

     
    Yes, they asked for it, didn't they? What a bunch of ingrates. I was in a similar situation when a family from a few streets away moved into my house without asking. At first I was furious, and I used whatever force was available to me to make them go away, now I see that their offer of allowing me to live in the toilet (locked in, incidentally) was an act of supreme good will on their part and I should be grateful to them for that.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: ISRAEL does it have a right to exist?
     Reply #29 - January 15, 2009, 05:38 PM

    Hass, your the man that moderated my view of Islam.

    I respect you mightily but do you really think that Israel has expansion on it's mind not defense and ultimately cessation of hostility?

    Yes in the past they played the Biblical messianic piper but they haven't been playing that dead end for at least a ten year stretch.

    On the whole they are a secular nation.

    I think the pull out of Gaza was the proof positive that Israel is serious about peace.

    The transformation of Gaza from illegal Israeli settlement in to a genocidal Islamist HQ explains Israels recent action.

    Israels recent action is not about reclaiming Gaza and killing civilians and expanding Israel. It's purely defense.


    I would dearly, dearly love to believe Israel is as well-intentioned and secular as you say - I really would.

    I would want nothing more than to see a democratic, plural and free society where human beings can live together without any of the false and divisive racial and religious bullshit that separates one human being from another and makes Arab despise Jew and Jew despise Arab.

    If Israel convince me that this is truly what they want they will have me as their most ardent supporter.

    Suffice to say I am not yet convinced... by a long stretch.

  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »