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 Topic: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic

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  • Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     OP - January 29, 2009, 08:19 PM

    Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic

    Quote
    (Adds Fatah statement on 4 to 8 killed, paragraphs 9-10)

    GAZA, Jan 29 (Reuters) - A Palestinian man has accused Islamist Hamas militants in control of the Gaza Strip of torturing and killing his brother for publicly criticising them.

    Osama Atallah, a teacher, was a supporter of the Fatah movement of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, the sworn enemy of Hamas, whose gunmen drove Fatah militia out of Gaza in 2007 and fought Israel's army in a three-week war this month.

    His brother Bassam said on Thursday masked gunmen in two jeeps had arrived at the family home in the city of Gaza on Tuesday. They identified themselves as members of Hamas internal security and they arrested his brother Osama.

    Bassam said the Hamas security service told the Atallah family Osama would be released in a matter of hours. But a Hamas government official, who is also a member of the Atallah family, later denied the teacher was in custody.

    The family subsequently received a telephone call from hospital that Osama Atallah was in critical condition.

    He later died of his wounds.

    About 1,300 Palestinians were killed in Israel's 22-day offensive, according to a Gaza human rights group, of whom over 700 were civilians. Ten Israeli soldiers died, including four in a "friendly fire" accident.

    Many older Gaza Palestinians scoffed at the claim by Hamas of "victory" once the fighting was halted on Jan 18.

    Ibrahim Abu An-Naja, a senior Fatah leader in the Gaza Strip, was quoted in a statement as saying four to eight members of Fatah were killed by Hamas during the war with Israel.

    The statement said Abu An-Naja refused to give names. He said Hamas gunmen has fired on members of Fatah and shot them in the legs, and some had been placed under house arrest.

    Fatah sources said Osama Atallah, a Fatah activist, had been threatened by Hamas "because of his public and continued criticism of the performance of the Hamas militias in Gaza".

    They accused Hamas of "severely torturing and then strangling" Osama Atallah. They said bullets in his body could have been fired after he died.

    Hamas interior ministry spokesman Ehab al-Ghsain did not respond to telephone calls from Reuters about the accusation.

    Hamas security officials said "dozens of collaborators" had been detained, including people they accused of spying for Israel during this month's battles.

    The Israeli daily Haaretz reported on Thursday that Hamas "executed several dozen civilians" during and after Israel's assault on Gaza. Some were members of Fatah, but others were not politically affiliated, the paper said.

    Haaretz quoted an Israeli intelligence source as saying a number of Palestinian agents working for Israel were intercepted by Hamas "because the intelligence they provided was used carelessly" by commanders intent on minimising troop casualties.

    "It appears that in most cases Hamas suspected that their victims had collaborated with Israeli intelligence," it said.

    Hamas in Gaza has not confirmed killing collaborators. But an Arab newspaper has carried a statement by an exiled Hamas official saying that the group had killed several.

    The accuracy of some Israeli air strikes against individual militants in buildings, or against snipers shooting at Israeli forces, depended on spies on the ground, according to some Palestinian security sources.

    Haaretz said Israeli commanders with troops in Gaza were "very impressed that (intelligence services) could warn them with great precision of developments in their proximity". (Additional reporting by Ali Sawafta in Ramallah; writing by Nidal al-Mughrabi and Douglas Hamilton; editing by Andrew Roche)


    Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSLT773276

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #1 - January 29, 2009, 10:03 PM

     Interesting . The violence , subterfuge and internecine strife doesn't really surprise me , but I'm struck by the reference to the accuracy of israeli strikes at buildings containing hamas militants . Haven't they always denied they had anyone in any of the buildings that were hit ?
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #2 - January 29, 2009, 10:09 PM

    Funny, that. Logical consistency is not their strong point.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #3 - January 30, 2009, 01:32 AM

    Apparently this guy was one of many tortured by Hamas in the wake of the Gaza conflict but still the world sees Israel as the villain.

    On another thread I posted videos where Hamas officials and MP's admit that the Israelis make warning telephone calls so civilians can be evacuated and the Hamas officials say that instead they round up more women and children so they can become 'martyrs' when the bombs drop. These videos were totally ignored and the Israel condemnation carried on regardless.

    Surprisingly United Nations Humanitarian Affairs Chief John Holmes took a break in the universal circle jerk of righteous condemnation of Israel to blast Hamas for it's.....

    "cynical" use of civilian facilities during recent hostilities in the Gaza Strip.

    "The reckless and cynical use of civilian installations by Hamas and indiscriminate firing of rockets against civilian populations are clear violations of international humanitarian law," Holmes told the UN Security Council.

    Hamas quite openly used mosques and schools for military purposes and to add insult to injury they used the ceasefire to commandeer hospitals as torture centres for Fatah supporters they accused of helping Israeli identify Hamas targets.

    All of this is openly available, well documented information from reliable sources suchas Memri, The UN and Hamas themselves but still people are sticking to the idea that Israel made an unprovoked, indiscriminate, genocidal attack against innocent civilians.

    When will people wake up and see reality?Huh?Huh??

    I spose not until they cease to hate Israel and Jews.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #4 - January 30, 2009, 01:45 AM

    I bet the "Arab Street" is planning the protests as we speak  whistling2
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #5 - January 30, 2009, 02:50 AM

    Quote
    I spose not until they cease to hate Israel and Jews.


    I don't think hatred of Israel and Jews really explains the situation.  There are, of course, anti-Semites out there and I'm sure they jump on any problem in the Middle East with glee as an excuse to bash Jews.  There are also people who hate Israel to the extent that they can't see victims in the Middle East at all, unless they are killed by an Israeli gun.

    I really don't think those people are driving the debate though.  Every Israel-condemner I've asked in the last few weeks about their motives says variations on the following - "I'm more outraged by the situation in Gaza than the situation in Congo/Zimbabwe/Somalia/Darfur despite the lower death toll in Gaza because, the Middle East has the potential to blow up into an international nuclear conflict."

    So there you have it.  Africa has no power to threaten anything outside its own continent,  Palestine vs. Israel does.  So when you see people who have never been there, know nothing about it other than what they see on the news, and their outrage is so selective, that is the reason.  Good old self-interest - Africans may kill each other but their tribal conflicts won't send aeroplanes into my office building, or suicide bombers onto my train. As long as its not in my back yard, etc......


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #6 - January 30, 2009, 05:11 AM

    There''s a useful four letter word that describes Hamas.

    They're full of something,

    Internet protocol says I shan't say anything more.

    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #7 - January 30, 2009, 06:05 AM

    Quote
    I spose not until they cease to hate Israel and Jews.


    I don't think hatred of Israel and Jews really explains the situation.  There are, of course, anti-Semites out there and I'm sure they jump on any problem in the Middle East with glee as an excuse to bash Jews.  There are also people who hate Israel to the extent that they can't see victims in the Middle East at all, unless they are killed by an Israeli gun.

    I really don't think those people are driving the debate though.  Every Israel-condemner I've asked in the last few weeks about their motives says variations on the following - "I'm more outraged by the situation in Gaza than the situation in Congo/Zimbabwe/Somalia/Darfur despite the lower death toll in Gaza because, the Middle East has the potential to blow up into an international nuclear conflict."

    So there you have it.  Africa has no power to threaten anything outside its own continent,  Palestine vs. Israel does.  So when you see people who have never been there, know nothing about it other than what they see on the news, and their outrage is so selective, that is the reason.  Good old self-interest - Africans may kill each other but their tribal conflicts won't send aeroplanes into my office building, or suicide bombers onto my train. As long as its not in my back yard, etc......




    You make a good point but that would only explain people calmly calling for the blue helmets of the UN to be involved and a unilateral ceasefire, not outrage, condemnation and partisan criticism.

    Most Brits and Europeans only open their mouths or take to the streets in support for the Palestinians and in total rabid condemnation of Israel. You really would be hard pushed to find a Liberal who would be prepared to condemn Hamas in the way they condemn Israel and this isn't the fringe.

    They are not impartial concerned peace protesters they are anti Israel protesters.

    The fact that they express 'outrage' at the deaths of 1000 Palestinians and hardly a squeak against the suicide bombers and rockets of Hamas let alone the hundreds of thousands killed in Africa is proof positive that they are not acting out of concern for Palestinians or a self interested desire to stop world war three. They are in the business of picking sides and they are simplistically picking the underdogs and rebels not the evil American empire.

    The "sensible" people who are neither antisemitic or fully paid up conspiracy nuts who nevertheless express utter outrage and total condemnation of Israel are doing so because of the simplistic narrative of the Left that we have all been bought up with.

    They express outrage because they have been bought up to believe that Britain, America, Israel, Western civilization and modernity are the cause of all the worlds problems and that brown people are sweet, humble, honourable, peaceful victims who must be protected and supported no matter what.

    So you have the totalitarian far Left lunatics, the Islamists united with the middle of the road liberal mainstream in condemnation of anything that Israel does.

    It is not a handful of nutters with the rest impartially calling for calm it is nutters and sensible people deranged by a combination of Western/white guilt, anti Americanism, antisemitism, conspiracy theories and religion all combined to create the majority.   
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #8 - January 30, 2009, 06:33 AM

    Thank you.

    Shalome.

    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #9 - January 30, 2009, 08:49 AM

    Mr Pig, Mr Pig, let me come in...

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #10 - January 30, 2009, 03:11 PM

    Quote
    I spose not until they cease to hate Israel and Jews.


    I don't think hatred of Israel and Jews really explains the situation.  There are, of course, anti-Semites out there and I'm sure they jump on any problem in the Middle East with glee as an excuse to bash Jews.  There are also people who hate Israel to the extent that they can't see victims in the Middle East at all, unless they are killed by an Israeli gun.

    I really don't think those people are driving the debate though.  Every Israel-condemner I've asked in the last few weeks about their motives says variations on the following - "I'm more outraged by the situation in Gaza than the situation in Congo/Zimbabwe/Somalia/Darfur despite the lower death toll in Gaza because, the Middle East has the potential to blow up into an international nuclear conflict."

    So there you have it.  Africa has no power to threaten anything outside its own continent,  Palestine vs. Israel does.  So when you see people who have never been there, know nothing about it other than what they see on the news, and their outrage is so selective, that is the reason.  Good old self-interest - Africans may kill each other but their tribal conflicts won't send aeroplanes into my office building, or suicide bombers onto my train. As long as its not in my back yard, etc......




    Such comments are a bit shallow.  In my case I can honestly say that I am concerned about all conflicts and suffering in the world.  The middle Eastern one could affect the whole world, it's true.  Have you got children? If you do, are you not worried about the world they will have to live in?
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #11 - January 30, 2009, 03:21 PM

    Quote
    I spose not until they cease to hate Israel and Jews.


    I don't think hatred of Israel and Jews really explains the situation.  There are, of course, anti-Semites out there and I'm sure they jump on any problem in the Middle East with glee as an excuse to bash Jews.  There are also people who hate Israel to the extent that they can't see victims in the Middle East at all, unless they are killed by an Israeli gun.

    I really don't think those people are driving the debate though.  Every Israel-condemner I've asked in the last few weeks about their motives says variations on the following - "I'm more outraged by the situation in Gaza than the situation in Congo/Zimbabwe/Somalia/Darfur despite the lower death toll in Gaza because, the Middle East has the potential to blow up into an international nuclear conflict."

    So there you have it.  Africa has no power to threaten anything outside its own continent,  Palestine vs. Israel does.  So when you see people who have never been there, know nothing about it other than what they see on the news, and their outrage is so selective, that is the reason.  Good old self-interest - Africans may kill each other but their tribal conflicts won't send aeroplanes into my office building, or suicide bombers onto my train. As long as its not in my back yard, etc......




    You make a good point but that would only explain people calmly calling for the blue helmets of the UN to be involved and a unilateral ceasefire, not outrage, condemnation and partisan criticism.

    Most Brits and Europeans only open their mouths or take to the streets in support for the Palestinians and in total rabid condemnation of Israel. You really would be hard pushed to find a Liberal who would be prepared to condemn Hamas in the way they condemn Israel and this isn't the fringe.

    They are not impartial concerned peace protesters they are anti Israel protesters.

    The fact that they express 'outrage' at the deaths of 1000 Palestinians and hardly a squeak against the suicide bombers and rockets of Hamas let alone the hundreds of thousands killed in Africa is proof positive that they are not acting out of concern for Palestinians or a self interested desire to stop world war three. They are in the business of picking sides and they are simplistically picking the underdogs and rebels not the evil American empire.

    The "sensible" people who are neither antisemitic or fully paid up conspiracy nuts who nevertheless express utter outrage and total condemnation of Israel are doing so because of the simplistic narrative of the Left that we have all been bought up with.

    They express outrage because they have been bought up to believe that Britain, America, Israel, Western civilization and modernity are the cause of all the worlds problems and that brown people are sweet, humble, honourable, peaceful victims who must be protected and supported no matter what.

    So you have the totalitarian far Left lunatics, the Islamists united with the middle of the road liberal mainstream in condemnation of anything that Israel does.

    It is not a handful of nutters with the rest impartially calling for calm it is nutters and sensible people deranged by a combination of Western/white guilt, anti Americanism, antisemitism, conspiracy theories and religion all combined to create the majority.   


    Wow, you know it all.  If you are putting me in one of those categories, I am afraid to say you are dead wrong.  Can you accept the fact that you can make mistakes?

    I mention Rothschild and everybody goes berserk.  I don't know much about that, I have read something, yes but it does not mean I take it to heart.  But no one in this or in other forums has been able to prove those rumors wrong.  They will just label you without knowing you.  I have said repeatedly I have nothing against the jewish people, I don't like the way the israelis operate the same way I don't like the way hamas operates.  I know that there are good israelis who want peace, but the ones at the top don't, or they think they will finally get their way, which of course they won't.

    The problem with this forum is that is very much one sided, I guess I should not be surprised because it's mainly anti-islam, but people, you should never lose your objectivity.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #12 - January 30, 2009, 03:33 PM

    Quote
    Such comments are a bit shallow.


    Thery're an honest description of people's reactions.  *shrug*  Maybe human nature is a bit shallow.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #13 - January 30, 2009, 03:42 PM

    Quote
    I mention Rothschild and one person rolls their eyes at me.


    Fixed. Smiley

    Quote
    The problem with this forum is that not everybody agrees with me,


    Fixed again.   Smiley

    You have a slight tendency to exaggerate, turquoise.   Roll Eyes


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #14 - January 31, 2009, 02:07 AM

    Quote
    I mention Rothschild and everybody goes berserk


    That's because traditionally the only people who say those kinds of things are a pretty extreme racist bunch. Think the Nazis, yes Hitler, the Third Reich and all that master race bullshit, oh and don't forget the good old Islamists and loony Lefties.

    Did you know that when you quote those things you are singing from exactly the same hymn sheets as Hitler and Osama Bin Laden?

    You are certainly in good company old bean.

    Quote
    no one in this or in other forums has been able to prove those rumors wrong


    That must mean Hitler might have been right about the Jews then! finmad

    This is such a vapid comment it shouldn't need to be corrected but just for the sake of it.

    If I say that you can't prove that a colony of gay pink leprechauns live on Saturn's moon Europa does it make it any less absurd just because "no one in this or in other forums has been able to prove those rumors wrong"

    Anyway the fact that you use the word rumours should give you an indication that this particular racist conspiracy is on rather shaky ground.

    Peace parrot
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #15 - January 31, 2009, 08:13 AM

    Quote
    I mention Rothschild and everybody goes berserk


    That's because traditionally the only people who say those kinds of things are a pretty extreme racist bunch. Think


    You idiot, you're so cheap.  'Those kinds of things' - ie: dissing a notoriously corrupt, money grabbing family does not make one a Nazi. Grow up piggy. You seem to spend all your time trying to infer everyone's anti semitic etc, is this why you joined? Why the name pig? To upset Muslims by any chance? Or is it because of your revolting ways? Which is, freako?

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #16 - January 31, 2009, 09:25 AM

    Did you know that when you quote those things you are singing from exactly the same hymn sheets as Hitler and Osama Bin Laden?

    You are certainly in good company old bean.

    Did you know that when you don't eat meat, you are singing from exactly the same hymn sheet as Hitler?

    Which is why if you refuse to order all the meat products on a menu in a restaurant, it means you must be a Nazi.


  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #17 - January 31, 2009, 09:51 AM

    So Jack and Hupla are you saying that you think that there is quite a bit of truth in the idea that Jews run the media and banks and you dislike being equated to Hitler?

    If you are then you kids are well and truly on the road to paranoia and racism. Congratulations.

    Trying to discredit my post by comparing Hitlers vegetarianism to his view that there was a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world is pathetic.

    It's quite fair to point out that the idea of a shady Jewish elite running the world has it's roots firmly established in the antisemitism of the Czars Russia and Hitlers Germany.

    If you find my pointing that out unfair then I can only assume that you sympathise with this conspiracy theory and if you do have sympathy with this lunacy you really are an antisemite and you have discredited yourself by default.

    How can you not be a racist if you think that Jews secretly run the world with evil intent?

    If I am wrong and you don't buy into this conspiracy theory, why does my pointing out that it is a founding idea of Hitlers Nazi ideology upset you so much?
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #18 - January 31, 2009, 10:00 AM

    So Jack and Hupla are you saying that you think that there is quite a bit of truth in the idea that Jews run the media and banks blah de blah de blah, cliche after cliche, serving to obscure a repressed desire to have sex with a man in an SS uniform.



    You crack me up porky. pray tell - why did you join this forum? Why do you keep going on and on about nazi's, pigs and your mother's hostility to you as a child?

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #19 - January 31, 2009, 10:22 AM

    I didn't say that believing in an evil Jewish elite running the banks and media made you a nazi but that you are singing from the same hymn sheets as the Nazis. There is a difference.

    Do you deny that the Nazis believed the same stuff about the Jews that many people do nowadays?

    You can believe in a Jewish conspiracy and not be a Nazi, You could be a Communist, an Islamist or a Green Party MP but you would still be a racist and there is no avoiding that. As I said, your in good company.

    If you want to demonise a race it's easy to find all the evidence you need to fit your theory.

    Just imagine if someone started spouting batshit ideas about black people having a shady plan to take over the world through extreme violence and intimidation on a global scale.

    I'm sure they could produce lots of "evidence" about the ratio of black prisoners in Western prisons, the prevalence of black gangs on the streets of Western cities, the rise of an aggressive black street culture which is prevalent in schools ensuring that other races are cowed and bought up from a young age in fear of their black peers plus Africa being the most violent continent on the planet. There you go a conspiracy with plenty of "evidence" to back it up.

    Now if I say

    "maybe it's true I'm not sure and I don't think all black people are in on it but there seems to be a lot of truth in it"

    Would you hesitate in calling me a racist?

    Why is a conspiracy theory about blacks racist but a conspiracy theory about Jews respectable, please explain yourselves.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #20 - January 31, 2009, 10:24 AM


    Why is a conspiracy theory about blacks racist but a conspiracy theory about Jews respectable, please explain yourselves.


    Because for skin deep racists like yourself, it appears that you are defending at least one set of 'ethnics'. Which brings us back to the - why are you here question, that you repeatedly fail to answer.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #21 - January 31, 2009, 11:07 AM

    How am I a racist please explain.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #22 - January 31, 2009, 11:56 AM

    How am I a racist please explain.


    If yoy answer my q's, then I will explain, if you really don't understand. Why the name Pig? Why did you join up here? I assume you are not an ex muslim.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #23 - January 31, 2009, 01:47 PM

    I didn't say that believing in an evil Jewish elite running the banks and media made you a nazi but that you are singing from the same hymn sheets as the Nazis. There is a difference.

    Do you deny that the Nazis believed the same stuff about the Jews that many people do nowadays?

    You can believe in a Jewish conspiracy and not be a Nazi, You could be a Communist, an Islamist or a Green Party MP but you would still be a racist and there is no avoiding that. As I said, your in good company.

    Sorry that is a logical fallacy. Plz do not use the racist term so lightly as to make a joke of it.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #24 - January 31, 2009, 03:51 PM

    I didn't say that believing in an evil Jewish elite running the banks and media made you a nazi but that you are singing from the same hymn sheets as the Nazis. There is a difference.

    Do you deny that the Nazis believed the same stuff about the Jews that many people do nowadays?

    You can believe in a Jewish conspiracy and not be a Nazi, You could be a Communist, an Islamist or a Green Party MP but you would still be a racist and there is no avoiding that. As I said, your in good company.

    Sorry that is a logical fallacy. Plz do not use the racist term so lightly as to make a joke of it.




    Hey, I can't believe Baal, we are in agreement on something Smiley

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #25 - February 01, 2009, 03:39 AM

    Ummmmm how is it a logical fallacy to call people who agree with the ideas in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion racist?

    I hate the way you can be accused of racism for criticising religion nowadays so I do not use the term lightly. But people who think that Jews run the world and are united in some wicked and secret plan to dominate the globe are racist.

    Just swap the word Jew for black every time you hear a Jewish conspiracy theory and hear the racism echo back at you.

    It's simple.

    Here's a gem from Turquoise.

    "I have heard that "black" people, tired of waiting for a Messiah that never turned up to make them the masters of the world, self-proclaimed themselves as the Messiah and so they decided to take over from now.  They don't do it overtly but from behind the scenes, by controlling mainly the finances"

    This one is not a conspiracy theory just pure hatred. Well done Jack.

    "blame the "blacks", they'll give a bad name to whatever you like"

    PS: Jack I'm here because I have grown up with Muslims, I have been in love with a Muslim girl and had a difficult time because of her families religious sensibilities.

    I have been in the minority when I worked as a mini cab driver and spent my nights chewing khat with my Somalian spars in Camden. I found that Islam was becoming a very potent force in many of my friends and neighbours lives and decided to look deeper only to find I didn't like what I saw.

    I tried talking respectfully but critically about it to my Muslim friends and was confronted with hostility.

    After that I was starting to take Robert Spencer and Ali Sina seriously until I saw Hass's vids and they bought me back to reality. I'm here because your bredrin inspired me to be here and I like debating religion.

    Do you see my avatar?

    That is a picture of my old staff Bruce who died two years ago at the ripe old age of 18.

    My uncle Clive rescued him from a bunch of sick junkies in Kilburn Park who had him chained to the kitchen table half starved.

    He was a lovely gentle dog and being a staff he used to make pig noises so his nickname was Brucepig.

    When he died I named my email after my dog, that is why I'm called Brucepig not because I'm racist and want to upset Muslims but because I loved my old barker so stop being so paranoid.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #26 - February 01, 2009, 04:42 AM

    Ummmmm how is it a logical fallacy to call people who agree with the ideas in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion racist?

    I hate the way you can be accused of racism for criticising religion nowadays so I do not use the term lightly. But people who think that Jews run the world and are united in some wicked and secret plan to dominate the globe are racist.

    That was not the logical fallacy. The logical fallacy was asking people if they agree with hitler. You were offering a form of the false imperative fallacy hovering a bit on the double negative fallacy.

    What you said, translates to something like this: "I am not saying you are a commie, but you said unions are good and lenin said unions are good, don't you see that you agree with lenin?"


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #27 - February 01, 2009, 05:01 AM

    No I even went as far as saying that believing in a Jewish conspiracy didn't make one a Nazi you could be an Islamist, a Communist, a Stop The War Coalition activist or a Green Party member of parliament.

    It doesn't make you a Nazi, you could be on the Left or Right or floundering somewhere in the middle and still believe these theories but the one thing you would be is in agreement with Hitler and Osama Bin Laden.

    No fallacies there just facts.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #28 - February 01, 2009, 08:41 AM

    Ah, another avatar/nick named after a dog!!! Excellent. Who was the other guy?? Was it a cat? A firnd of mine is nicknamed 'Pork' - if I was  to join an ex jewish forum (or muslim in fact) I would probably not choose that name as a nick, funny that you didn't think about it. I mean, yes, granted it's the most natural thing in the world to give yourself the same name as your pet dog that the nasty junkies were cruel to, but hey...

    It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind, whatever you say. My ex wife was cathoilic, however I never joined a catholic forum - but whatever, you're welcome here, just stop calling everyone racist just because they don't agree with you're wonky politics.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic
     Reply #29 - February 01, 2009, 12:40 PM

    Ah, another avatar/nick named after a dog!!! Excellent. Who was the other guy?? Was it a cat? A firnd of mine is nicknamed 'Pork' - if I was  to join an ex jewish forum (or muslim in fact) I would probably not choose that name as a nick, funny that you didn't think about it. I mean, yes, granted it's the most natural thing in the world to give yourself the same name as your pet dog that the nasty junkies were cruel to, but hey...

    It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind, whatever you say. My ex wife was cathoilic, however I never joined a catholic forum - but whatever, you're welcome here, just stop calling everyone racist just because they don't agree with you're wonky politics.


    It's your paranoid baggage not mine. good luck with it.

    If using the word 'pig' in my name is enough to condemn me in your eyes then I assume you are less of an ex Muslim than me. So if the word pig offends you so much why are you on an ex Muslim site?
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