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 Topic: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     OP - January 31, 2009, 08:43 PM
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jeDHgYj_Bsk
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #1 - January 31, 2009, 09:20 PM
    That video made no sense whatsoever. He compared the suffering of hell to fast food restaurants and high school dropouts Cheesy. But my BIGGEST problem with his response is that one can't choose to believe in something. Some people will study Islam and convert while some don't. If a person does not convert to Islam, it doesn't mean they are stupid/deaf/stubborn like he said, its because their mind can't help it. And besides, anybody that is not indoctrinated into Islam can see how absurd the idea of hellfire really is. Most of my muslim friends have a problem with the idea of hellfire as well. They always try to jump around the idea and make it seem like it isn't as bad as the Qur'an says it is, but they are just in denial. Just because someone does not believe in Islam, it does not make them rebellious or stubborn like he said. He is just being stupid.
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #2 - January 31, 2009, 10:37 PM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on January 31, 2009, 09:20 PM
    That video made no sense whatsoever. He compared the suffering of hell to fast food restaurants and high school dropouts Cheesy. But my BIGGEST problem with his response is that one can't choose to believe in something. Some people will study Islam and convert while some don't. If a person does not convert to Islam, it doesn't mean they are stupid/deaf/stubborn like he said, its because their mind can't help it. And besides, anybody that is not indoctrinated into Islam can see how absurd the idea of hellfire really is. Most of my muslim friends have a problem with the idea of hellfire as well. They always try to jump around the idea and make it seem like it isn't as bad as the Qur'an says it is, but they are just in denial. Just because someone does not believe in Islam, it does not make them rebellious or stubborn like he said. He is just being stupid.


    Well said, though I'd like to make a small correction to what you said:

    "...anybody that is not indoctrinated into Islam can see how absurd the idea of hellfire really is..."

    To:

    ...anybody that is not indoctrinated into Islam and Christianity can see how absurd the idea of hellfire really is...

    It is not only Muslims who are forced to regard those who reject their faith as being stupid, or stubborn, or deluded, or twisted, or in some way deserving of eternal damnation.

    Such people cannot entertain the thought that anyone could actually have good reason to reject their God - as it would make Hell utterly indefensible even for the most ardent believer
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #3 - February 01, 2009, 12:04 AM
    The punishment is proportionate? Huh? Comparing dropping out of school to leaving Islam?  He's conveniently forgetting that there are numerous people who get  through life just fine without school. Muslims suck at this.

    And what's this about people who never heard about Islam? They get another test? They get to go to heaven? Well, I didn't know that.
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #4 - February 01, 2009, 12:29 AM
    Good point. I should have put in Christianity as well because they view hell in a very similar way. Thanks for point that out Hassan! yes
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #5 - February 01, 2009, 12:38 AM
    It's a very American thing too his analogy about Burger King. I know a guy who was 70 when he finally got his Master of Arts. He started an undergaduate degree in his 60s. He had been on a Disability Support Pension for about 30-odd years prior to that and lived a quite idyllic life with his family in a beautiful Ministry of Housing house with a huge backyard. At least the Hawke-Keating government was more merciful than Allah (SWT).
    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #6 - February 01, 2009, 08:55 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on January 31, 2009, 08:43 PM
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jeDHgYj_Bsk


    1. dropping out of school is not going to ruin your life. there are many successful people who have not completed their education.
    Im not trying to devalue education, I think it is very important, but he makes it sound as if people cant live well without it, and that is not true.

    2. even if you drop out, you can ALWAYS go back. its not the end of the world. you can get a degree at the age of 60 if you wish.

    4. Belief is part of a person's nature. its not a choice. you can pray as many times as you like, and give whatever oath, but true faith is in the heart, and if its not there, its your fault? I dont believe that.

    5. How can one deserve an eternity of hell for a lifetime of disbelief/sin?

    6. I have yet to mean ANYONE, muslim or not, who can say that a 'good' person going to hell for not believing something (esp something personal & abstract) is perfectly JUST. Now, add the fact that this 'something' is Islam/God, and all of a sudden, its justified, albeit reluctantly. If thats not blind faith I dont know what is.


    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #7 - February 01, 2009, 02:13 PM
    Quote from: Iggy on February 01, 2009, 12:04 AM
    And what's this about people who never heard about Islam? They get another test? They get to go to heaven? Well, I didn't know that.


    We estimate there was 100 Billion humans born to this day. The vast majority existed before islam and before abraham. 90% of them never saw pictures of Earth from Space to see how flat Earth really is. Did not know about germs, could not tell you about atoms, molecules, or even common elements. For some wood was perhaps the most useful element there is. Yet almost all of them without fault, knew exactly how the universe was created. Each one of them had a little story depicting how it all came to be and possibly how it will end.

    They do not need the islamic test. They had their own hells to contend with.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #8 - February 01, 2009, 03:36 PM
    A comment on my video about Hell, defending the concept of Hell.

    what is wrong with people. ONE OF THE NAME OF ALLAH IS the MOST MERCIFUL! (that) means that He is more Merciful than your father or mother. we dont know the JUDGE! look up the evidence and then compare, maybe those who will go to hell will deserv it, do u know it or not?

    ...if I or you were the Creator, the Creator of all living and non living. I would also put those who mocked me into a burning fire. this is like having 10 children and 9 of them will always mock you, and make fun of ur name and never call u father. they even take other fathers. in the end i dont think u would forgive them, but this is bad compare.

    plz watch my video:
    The All seeing eye Dajjal in church. See how christians do practice dajjal. btw if i believe in christianty its hell for me.

    ...sorry i mean, if i dont believe in the christianty then i will go to hell. so ur question should be twisted. and look at judism, they believe all NON jews are GOYIMS means they are cattle which they will live and die as cattle but JEWS will stay on HEAVEN which is on earth. now isnt amazing that u dont mock them?
    Indeed Hell is for those who didnt believe it. i dont know why i even have spent my 10 min here. InshAllah you will come to know the truth. u read for mocking not for learning.
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #9 - February 01, 2009, 03:39 PM
    I can never understand it when some people give the example of a father whose child does not thank him or obey him for all he's done for him?

    Do they really think about the example they are giving?

    What sort of parent would want to torture their disobedient child for all eternity?

    And he says that God is more merciful than your parents to you?

    Don't they think about what they are saying?
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #10 - February 01, 2009, 04:31 PM
    Those are exactly the questions that come to one's mind when reading such comments. It's very depressing to see these minds bounded by the frame of Islam which renders them unable to see that a punishment for having the wrong beliefs is unbelievably cruel and unjust. You don't know whether to cry or laugh at the arguments and analogies they put forward. Most of the time I'm left with a "what the hell"-feeling.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #11 - February 01, 2009, 08:41 PM
    same here - I always think the  Dawkins 'fairies at the bottom of the garden' anology is a good one to retort with and just following an ancestral religion is another..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #12 - February 01, 2009, 08:46 PM
    Really though, I don't understand how Hell is merciful. That fucking brainwashed peice of shit in the video has no idea what he is talking about. Nobody should suffer because of disbelief. That is why I hate Islam and Christianity. It ruined the minds of small children everywhere, instilling them with fear. I Knew christians whose childhood was ruined because their pastors were telling them of the delights of hell. When you watch the video, you can see how brainwashed and stupid he really is.
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #13 - February 01, 2009, 09:30 PM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on February 01, 2009, 08:46 PM
    Really though, I don't understand how Hell is merciful. That fucking brainwashed peice of shit in the video has no idea what he is talking about. Nobody should suffer because of disbelief. That is why I hate Islam and Christianity. It ruined the minds of small children everywhere, instilling them with fear. I Knew christians whose childhood was ruined because their pastors were telling them of the delights of hell. When you watch the video, you can see how brainwashed and stupid he really is.


    I know where you are coming from CC, but the guy in the video is not a piece of shit. He's like most Muslims or Christians, who are basically nice people and believe in the nice things in their religion and do their best to try and explain away the bits that don't make sense as best they can.

    Rejecting their religion is just not an option. They may have family, spouse, children, community, friends that they would lose or ruin the relationship. They would lose their comfort zone, their security, meaning to their life and so on...

    It's not easy and we shouldn't judge them harshly.

    I think it is important for those of us who have managed to make the break from religion show that we do indeed empathise and understand what others are still struggling with.
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #14 - February 01, 2009, 09:38 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 01, 2009, 09:30 PM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on February 01, 2009, 08:46 PM
    Really though, I don't understand how Hell is merciful. That fucking brainwashed peice of shit in the video has no idea what he is talking about. Nobody should suffer because of disbelief. That is why I hate Islam and Christianity. It ruined the minds of small children everywhere, instilling them with fear. I Knew christians whose childhood was ruined because their pastors were telling them of the delights of hell. When you watch the video, you can see how brainwashed and stupid he really is.


    I know where you are coming from CC, but the guy in the video is not a piece of shit. He's like most Muslims or Christians, who are basically nice people and believe in the nice things in their religion and do their best to try and explain away the bits that don't make sense as best they can.

    Rejecting their religion is just not an option. They may have family, spouse, children, community, friends that they would lose or ruin the relationship. They would lose their comfort zone, their security, meaning to their life and so on...

    It's not easy and we shouldn't judge them harshly.

    I think it is important for those of us who have managed to make the break from religion show that we do indeed empathise and understand what others are still struggling with.


    Yea, you're right, I shouldn't have been so harsh. It just gets me so worked up how ignorant some people can be.
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #15 - February 01, 2009, 10:06 PM
    His video was very disappointing, considering the promise he showed with his first video.    I expected more, but his argumets shallow.  Relating hell to punishment to for those on earth who do not study is beyond even shallow, ridiculous springs to mind.  However i think he is really just trying too hard, he states in this video that he suffered from doubts so just leave him with it.

    He seems fairminded enough to realise for himself, eventually.  He just isn't ready yet and has a bit of growing up to do..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #16 - February 01, 2009, 10:52 PM
    Yup, that sounds like a balanced assessment to me.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #17 - February 01, 2009, 11:08 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 01, 2009, 09:30 PM

    I think it is important for those of us who have managed to make the break from religion show that we do indeed empathise and understand what others are still struggling with.


    +1.

    The problem with a dismissive approach is that your arguments just dont get heard.  In the same way we choose not to take comments like "hope you burn in hell" seriously. 

    Your videos just by existing make people realise that thinking like ours does exist.  Websites like this do the same. I certainly never saw things like this when I was in my teenage years, and would have drawn comfort in the fact that they existed and had somebody to relate to.

    We are an example to others, and by displaying an exemplary manner prove that you can reject religion and not be a devil reincarnate.  This will act as just an effective and powerful method than any argument you could use.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #18 - February 03, 2009, 12:23 PM
    Just saw this posted - but not yet seen the video:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPyKw6p_dQE
  • Re: Reply to; "Hell in the Qur'an"
     Reply #19 - February 03, 2009, 03:04 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 03, 2009, 12:23 PM
    Just saw this posted - but not yet seen the video:
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPyKw6p_dQE


    He was hardly intelligible to my ears, the sound quality is terrible. The only bits I understood was the "kafir equals a person who rejects/covers the truth"-argument, which is yet another terrible attempt at justifying eternal Hell fire. Anyway, I'm sure it won't be hard for you to make a nice response.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
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