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 Topic: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...

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  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #30 - February 05, 2009, 06:58 PM
    "Islam teaches you to spend this life preparing for the next and that it is the afterlife that is important."

    That's what a lot of religion, especially judaism and christianity also teach.

    in fact, isn't it interesting to note that other secular ideologies also teach people it's "noble" to die fighting for its cause? like nationalism... or marxism... or mythical notions like "freedom"...

    they're all memes, controlling humans to do their bidding. :/
    TRASH - The Rationalist Apostate Society for Humanity!

    Take a look for a few laughs and thoughtful discussions with a wide range of audience - fellow apostates, Muslims, sufis, non-Muslims, Christians, etc

    http://thetrashbin.wordpress.com
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #31 - February 05, 2009, 11:29 PM
    Quote from: abdalwali on February 05, 2009, 11:31 AM
    It's all a matter of interpretation. That's when our scholars come in handy Smiley

    Not sure what you mean by your statement or what am I looking for in the link you provided. Can you elaborate plz?
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #32 - February 05, 2009, 11:35 PM
    Quote from: SalahuddinR on February 05, 2009, 06:58 PM
    "Islam teaches you to spend this life preparing for the next and that it is the afterlife that is important."

    That's what a lot of religion, especially judaism and christianity also teach.

    in fact, isn't it interesting to note that other secular ideologies also teach people it's "noble" to die fighting for its cause? like nationalism... or marxism... or mythical notions like "freedom"...

    they're all memes, controlling humans to do their bidding. :/

    It would be a strawman to only concentrate on this one meme.

    It is not just the single meme of 'prepare for the afterlife' that is bothersome. Such a meme exists in every aspect of our lives even while working for a company: "Work your ass now so you can retire better".

    It is when the memes start piling up, that's when you get the bad memeplexes coming at you. Islam contains the "prepare for the afterlife meme", and it also contain too many memes stating how useless life is now, how dangerous are people to your well being, them vs us, how most people are made from base matters, you can not have them as friends. If you kill them, it is not your hand that killed them, but the hand of allah, etc.

    Most dangerously, such memes are very much active right now in the islamic society. I will be a littlemore comfortable if those memes were pushed to the pre-80's levels.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #33 - February 05, 2009, 11:37 PM
     So , according to your scholars , it's OK to kill israelis not only until they quit Palestine but until they renounce  'paganism' ?
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #34 - February 06, 2009, 01:51 AM
    I just read the whole convo, it was long but worth the read. No offense PeruvianSkies, but your friend is an idiot. Every time you brought up points, she always blamed the media, even though the media has nothing to do with god. And when you brought up the issue of hell, she said there was no hell in the Qur'an LOL. She is in SERIOUS denial.
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #35 - February 06, 2009, 11:37 AM
    Greek Neo pagan Vlassis Rassias has written a series of books on the Christian Persecution against the Hellenes. Here's a summary.

    ethnikoi.org/persecutions.html - 30k

    Islam at the moment is undoubtedly the most violent but it isn't the only one which spread by force.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #36 - February 06, 2009, 11:38 AM
    I posted a link and it doesn't work. Can someone make it work please?
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #37 - February 06, 2009, 11:43 AM
    Is this what the link is supposed to be?

    http://ethnikoi.org/persecutions.html
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #38 - February 06, 2009, 11:46 AM
    Yes it is, thank you so much Cheetah.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #39 - February 06, 2009, 02:19 PM
    I find the persecution of the Hellenic pagans very interesting as Greece was colonized by the Turkish Muslis so long and so have a grudge on the Muslims for attempting to destroy their Christian faith, when their Christian faith was itself largely established by destroying their pagan faith by force.Of course, Greece was just one area where Christianity was spread partly by force,Scandinavia, Latin America etc too became Christian after many persecutions. The Greek pagans were till recently not allowed to worship their old gods and they still face many discriminations.

    Just wondering what are the chances that circa 2100 there will be Saudi Arabian neo pagans wanting to worship Allat, Al uzza and Al manat? dance
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #40 - February 06, 2009, 02:22 PM
    Are those the 3 female Gods that Mo mentioned?
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #41 - February 06, 2009, 03:24 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on February 06, 2009, 02:22 PM
    Are those the 3 female Gods that Mo mentioned?


    Yep! Those that Rushdie dealt with in the Satanic Verses.  grin12
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #42 - February 06, 2009, 03:34 PM
    I bet anybody who decides to start a cult/religion favouring those will instantly be hated by the entire muslim world and killed by the radicals whenever possible.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #43 - February 06, 2009, 07:16 PM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on February 06, 2009, 01:51 AM
    I just read the whole convo, it was long but worth the read. No offense PeruvianSkies, but your friend is an idiot. Every time you brought up points, she always blamed the media, even though the media has nothing to do with god. And when you brought up the issue of hell, she said there was no hell in the Qur'an LOL. She is in SERIOUS denial.

    Depends on whether being an idiot an average for you or an exception.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #44 - February 06, 2009, 07:28 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 06, 2009, 02:19 PM
    Just wondering what are the chances that circa 2100 there will be Saudi Arabian neo pagans wanting to worship Allat, Al uzza and Al manat? dance

    There's a hadith stating that either they will always be worshipped in the peninsula, or their worship will be revived; I look it up for you.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #45 - February 07, 2009, 10:18 AM
    Quote from: awais on February 06, 2009, 07:28 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 06, 2009, 02:19 PM
    Just wondering what are the chances that circa 2100 there will be Saudi Arabian neo pagans wanting to worship Allat, Al uzza and Al manat? dance

    There's a hadith stating that either they will always be worshipped in the peninsula, or their worship will be revived; I look it up for you.


    Yes please look up that hadith awais. Actually, perhaps no dead religion has received such an unfair treatment as pre Islamic Saudi paganism. Ancient Egyptian faith has a few white adherents, I saw them on my trip to Egypt, although probably no Egyptian Christian or Muslim has converted to that faith, and the Egyptians seem reasonably proud of their ancient heritage. The Greek and Norse pagan faiths have gained a few adherents lately but the poor Saudi Arabian faith is forever tainted due to Islam. Saudi Arabs are cut off from their ancient faith as Islam's Prophet personally destroyed that faith, they're taught to regard their pre Islamic past and any acheivement of their pre Islamic ancestors with disgust and loathing as a time of jahilliyah and no ancient gods and goddesses have been so vilified as the 360 gods which Mohammed criticized, ridiculed and personally destroyed.  sad

    It would be some kind of poetic justice if they could get even a few adherents from the descendants of the people who had once fought wars to continue their worship,and some of their faith could be reconstructed. victory

    Emerald you're a Saudi Arabian aren't you? What are your thoughts on this? Huh?
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #46 - February 07, 2009, 01:18 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 07, 2009, 10:18 AM
    Emerald you're a Saudi Arabian aren't you? What are your thoughts on this? Huh?

    =========

    Yes I am;

    well....I think there are some types of Paganism practiced in S.A.;




    As for Al-lat and others, I don't think it's possible to worship them anymore  parrot


    ~Edited the Img size~
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #47 - February 07, 2009, 03:20 PM
    Do you know any other ex-muslims in Saudi Arabia i.e. from the indigenous population?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #48 - February 07, 2009, 03:25 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 07, 2009, 03:20 PM
    Do you know any other ex-muslims in Saudi Arabia i.e. from the indigenous population?

    =============

    Yes I do.  Wink
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #49 - February 07, 2009, 04:12 PM
    i'm curious - are there many? how do you meet them? are they open about it?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #50 - February 07, 2009, 05:29 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 07, 2009, 04:12 PM
    i'm curious - are there many? how do you meet them? are they open about it?

    =============

    If you mean those whom I personally know, well they're about 5;

    +

    One online-friend;

    and a few hundreds over Arabic former-Muslims, atheists, secular forums.

    The 5  I know are buddies and a sibling.


    I assume there are many, several thousands between converts, atheists, agnostix...etc, most aren't open abt it.

    ahhh, yeah, father of one of the above 4 buddies is an atheist  grin12, so add one.


    None of the above writes in a regular Saudi public forum and says: "hey, I left the thing..." at least not in their real names.
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #51 - February 07, 2009, 05:37 PM
    The other 4, did you meet them randomly or through activist groups? Are they open amongst friends about their beliefs,  is it becoming an increasingly popular ideology in S.A?..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #52 - February 07, 2009, 05:50 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 07, 2009, 05:37 PM
    The other 4, did you meet them randomly or through activist groups? Are they open amongst friends about their beliefs,  is it becoming an increasingly popular ideology in S.A?..

    ==============

    Randomly (mainly school).

    amongst close friends, yes, they're open..


    With all of these media channels + the internet, I do believe the number is increasing;

    For example, it's only thru Paltalk and satellite channels that I heard/saw Saudis declaring their conversion to Xianity...


    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #53 - February 07, 2009, 06:11 PM
    Good for Saudi Arabia, as I dont even know 3 apostates in the UK (outside of this forum).  Perhaps it is something to do with the type of Muslims we have here, or whether their communities have become increasing closed..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #54 - February 08, 2009, 04:48 AM
    As for Al-lat and others, I don't think it's possible to worship them anymore
    Quote from: Emerald on February 07, 2009, 01:18 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 07, 2009, 10:18 AM
    Emerald you're a Saudi Arabian aren't you? What are your thoughts on this? Huh?

    =========

    Yes I am;


    As for Al-lat and others, I don't think it's possible to worship them anymore  parrot



     

    Not possible means? Anyone can worship anything they please, its in the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. The kaaba was the site these gods were originally worshipped, and Mohammed ruthlessly smashed them, threatening to kill any followers of these gods who came out of their house to protect them. These gods are the Saudi's ancient culture, which they had to stamp on, they had to claim that it was worthless, that it doesn't matter. If a Saudi in any part of the world, or a non Saudi likes this faith, sure they should have the right to worship these. fest42

    Come to think of it, it would be the bravest (or the most foolhardy) thing a Saudi ex Muslim could do, far braver than even a conversion to xtianity or atheism.  hahaha
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #55 - February 08, 2009, 06:05 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 08, 2009, 04:48 AM
    Not possible means? Anyone can worship anything they please, its in the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights.

    =========

    Meant these 3 Goddesses per se, cuz they're gone as you said  Wink
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #56 - February 08, 2009, 06:20 AM
    I know quite a few people who have converted to things like neo-paganism, new versions of ancient, pre-christian european religions. I wouldn't be surprised if one day there are people who do the same with the ancient, pre-islam arab religions. There's something appealing about practicing the "original" religion of your people/culture, like it's more authentic and you're reviving something valuable that has been lost. As far as paganism goes, it seems just as silly as the more "modern" religions to me. But my friends who are into it are kind people and it gives them peace, so I guess it's no different than any other religion.  parrot
    Though it has no bridge,
    The cloud climbs up to heaven;
    It does not seek the aid
    Of Gautama's sutras.

    - Ikkyu
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #57 - February 08, 2009, 07:33 AM
    Quote from: Emerald on February 08, 2009, 06:05 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 08, 2009, 04:48 AM
    Not possible means? Anyone can worship anything they please, its in the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights.

    =========

    Meant these 3 Goddesses per se, cuz they're gone as you said  Wink


    Nope, they're not gone, religions, gods and goddesses never go, its the worship that ceases and sometimes the physical idols are destroyed. The moment a faith finds some worshippers, someone who takes those holy books and idols as the guiding lights of their life, the faith is revived. Al Lat's statue which Mohammed smashed was just her physical manifestation, she can be revived anytime by anyone's sincere belief to worship her, and construct a new physical statue of her. Just like Greek neo paganism: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/01/religion.uk

     Destroying (say) Catholic Churches and idols won't kill Catholicism, however, wiping out belief in Catholicism from the minds of its believers will temporarily put it to sleep. The moment worshippers take to the faith, and rebuild statues and images as they imagine Catholic statues wouldhave been, the faith will re awaken. hope

    The moment a few Saudis or others start worshipping Allat and others, they'll come back to life.They're the Ancient Saudis' roots, from which they were abducted. Fundie Muslims' felt so agitated and threatened when Rushdie wrote about these, wonder how a few devout Allat + her sisters worshippers would make them feel. signmuahaha
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #58 - February 08, 2009, 07:45 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on February 08, 2009, 07:33 AM

    Nope, they're not gone, religions, gods and goddesses never go, its the worship that ceases and sometimes the physical idols are destroyed. The moment a faith finds some worshippers, someone who takes those holy books and idols as the guiding lights of their life, the faith is revived. Destroying Catholic Churches and idols won't kill Catholicism, however, wiping out belief in Catholicism from the minds of its believers will temporarily put it to sleep. The moment worshippers take to the faith, and rebuild statues and images as they imagine Catholic statues wouldhave been, the faith will re awaken. hope

    The moment a few Saudis or others start worshipping Allat and others, they'll come back to life.They're the Ancient Saudis' roots, from which they were abducted. Fundie Muslims' felt so agitated and threatened when Rushdie wrote about these, wonder how a few devout Allat + her sisters worshippers would make them feel. signmuahaha


    ===========

    LOL, Ok...I'll try 2 start that in Mecca  Tongue


    If any would do what you just said, I think he/she would choose new names and divines, more modern ones  grin12
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: So, told my muslim friend I left Islam...
     Reply #59 - February 08, 2009, 07:59 AM
    Quote from: Emerald on February 08, 2009, 07:45 AM
    If any would do what you just said, I think he/she would choose new names and divines, more modern ones  grin12

    Let's worship Al Gore, God of the Internet Cheesy
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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