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Theme Changer

 Topic: Where in the Quran...

 (Read 4283 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Where in the Quran...
     OP - February 09, 2009, 02:21 AM
    does it say that muslims should follow the prophet Mohammed's words and actions? Didnt he himself say NOT to follow his actions? How do muslims justify the credibility of the hadiths? To be quite honest, history books make Mohammed seem like a greater person than the hadiths do... its mind boggling.


    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #1 - February 09, 2009, 04:21 AM
    ?Where did you hear 'NOT' to follow Muhammad?

    Quote from: al-Qur'an, Surah Aali Imran 3:32
    Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.

    Quote from: al-Qur'an, Surah al-Ahzab 33:21
    Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #2 - February 09, 2009, 08:24 AM
    I think there's specific things that muslims are told not to follow Mohammed's example about.  Like the amount of wives he married, for instance.  Other than that muslims are supposed to follow his example.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #3 - February 09, 2009, 08:37 AM
    Yup, special exceptions Wink.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #4 - February 09, 2009, 08:39 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on February 09, 2009, 02:21 AM
    does it say that muslims should follow the prophet Mohammed's words and actions? Didnt he himself say NOT to follow his actions? How do muslims justify the credibility of the hadiths? To be quite honest, history books make Mohammed seem like a greater person than the hadiths do... its mind boggling.

    ===========

    Firstly:

    Surah 53:

    [3] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.

    [4] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:

    [5] He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

    [6] Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form)



    Secondly, "Hadiths" is a very complicated topic in Islam, latest phenomena resulted from Hadiths is the "Quranists" movement.


    Basically, degree of authenticity of a Hadith depends on several factors, Sunni Muslims regard Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim to be the most Authenticated, (sahih = correct),

    Both shaikhs followed a unique way in tracing Mo's sayings, they applied strict rules in accepting or rejecting a hadith, and only considered those chains of narrators who meet certain criteria, (eg: honesty, good memory, credibility, etc).


    Shaikh Al-albani (died last century), a very prominent Hadith Imam called (muhaddeth), worked nicely to filter hadiths, and extract those Sahih, fair, and other types of authenticity.

    The process of classifying Hadiths and their narrators is conducted thru learning something called:

    Ilm Al-rejal (science of men).
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #5 - February 09, 2009, 10:59 AM
    Surah 33 does have a verse that says the behaviour of the Prophet should be followed:


    33:21  Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day.

    Of course in 33:50 we are told not to follow his example when it comes to number of wives.

    33:50 ...this only for thee, and not for the believers at large...
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #6 - February 09, 2009, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on February 09, 2009, 10:59 AM

    Of course in 33:50 we are told not to follow his example when it comes to number of wives.

    33:50 ...this only for thee, and not for the believers at large...



    What do you mean? I thought Muslims were allowed to marry a number of times
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  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #7 - February 09, 2009, 02:25 PM
    No, muslims can marry 4 wives at the same time, Mo was allowed more than that, IIRC he had 9 wives when he died.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #8 - February 09, 2009, 02:33 PM
    Cheeky git!  He had it made, he could do whatever he pleased by claiming he was Gods right hand man.  What made everyone fall for it back then? 
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  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #9 - February 09, 2009, 04:12 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 09, 2009, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on February 09, 2009, 10:59 AM

    Of course in 33:50 we are told not to follow his example when it comes to number of wives.

    33:50 ...this only for thee, and not for the believers at large...



    What do you mean? I thought Muslims were allowed to marry a number of times


    Sorry I should have said 'a number of wives above 4'
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #10 - February 09, 2009, 04:19 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 09, 2009, 02:33 PM
    Cheeky git!  He had it made, he could do whatever he pleased by claiming he was Gods right hand man.  What made everyone fall for it back then? 


    Well if you believe in the specialness of someone, you could be led to believe that they deserve more dues than you.

    The rich of the old believed they deserved better than the common folk, and the common folk believed the rich deserved better too, much the same as mo deserved (in the eyes of a believer) special compensation.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #11 - February 10, 2009, 02:37 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 09, 2009, 08:24 AM
    I think there's specific things that muslims are told not to follow Mohammed's example about.  Like the amount of wives he married, for instance.  Other than that muslims are supposed to follow his example.


    Verse 33:50 about how muhammad can have almost any woman he wants, has a stipulation that it is only for muhammad.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #12 - February 10, 2009, 03:26 AM
    Quote from: awais
    Yup, special exceptions . Wink

    please, provide reference from quran that there is this'special exceptions'. Muhammad breaks his own laws, he told his believers to marry 4 but he himself marries 11.  And with the reference that you just gave, muslims are suppose to follow muhammad.... Cheesy

    ...confusing, is it not?....
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #13 - February 10, 2009, 04:58 AM
    Quote from: li on February 10, 2009, 03:26 AM
    Quote from: awais
    Yup, special exceptions . Wink

    please, provide reference from quran that there is this'special exceptions'. Muhammad breaks his own laws, he told his believers to marry 4 but he himself marries 11.  And with the reference that you just gave, muslims are suppose to follow muhammad.... Cheesy

    ...confusing, is it not?....

    Here is a verse, only made for muhammad and not his follower:

    33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom God has given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you..."
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #14 - February 10, 2009, 05:21 AM
    More Translations:

    033.050
    YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

    SHAKIR: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #15 - February 10, 2009, 06:33 AM
    Muhammad is using Allah to justify his wrong doings. Allah is usefull, whenever needed.... grin12
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #16 - February 10, 2009, 06:55 AM
    Apology to the thread, I did not notice ghazali had already posted about this.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #17 - February 10, 2009, 07:05 AM
    May i know where?
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #18 - February 10, 2009, 08:36 AM
    Quote from: Baal on February 10, 2009, 06:55 AM
    Apology to the thread, I did not notice ghazali had already posted about this.



    But not in the detail in which you covered it!
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Where in the Quran...
     Reply #19 - February 10, 2009, 08:37 AM
    Quote from: li on February 10, 2009, 07:05 AM
    May i know where?


    On the previous page about 6 posts down.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
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