Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!

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- awais
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #150 - March 05, 2009, 12:15 PM

Wasn't it a long hard struggle for the west to become as liberal and "freedom loving" as they are? We do not give any time for muslims to do so. "They must conform now!"

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- HenriMonier
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #151 - March 05, 2009, 12:17 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 12:13 PM
Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 12:02 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 03:57 AM
Quote from: Hassan on February 21, 2009, 03:07 PM
Because the implications of trying to destroy Islam are far worse.

How so? What do you think will happen if Islam were to be destroyed?

Quote
Those who are convinced Islam must be destroyed will inevitably attract those are quite happy to use violence and have other agendas too.

I disagree, wanting to destroy an ideology doesn't necessarily mean that you have to accept those who have other agendas, be they violent or not.

Welcome Shoeshiner chum. I am glad to see that you found your way here.

While I agree you with you that we should destroy this religion, I don't see how (anymore) we can. Even if we were to educate and lift Muslims worldwide out of poverty, even the most educated and intellectual person can still believe in violent, retarded nonsense. Therefore it might be impossible.

Anyway, welcome.

And imagine if there was a world-wide movement to destroy Islam. How would it be controlled? How would anyone ensure things don't get out of hand? How would one keep the Christian zealots from trying to engineer their own agenda? Or the Nazis theirs? Or the power-mad authoritarian politicians theirs? Or the just plan shit-crazy whackos theirs? O

And when it's all done who's to stop them turning on the next "Threat to humanity" whatever the guys with power/controlling the militias decide that is?

Etc...

Etc...

The world you are trying to save would be destroyed in the process.

I hate to admit that you're right, and that it isn't a viable or manageable scenario

That doesn't mean however that I don't still hate Islam and wish for it's death.

Maybe in a few years after years of thinking I can come up with a solution, I will let you know then.

Don't worry, it won't be a "final solution".

Quote

Wasn't it a long hard struggle for the west to become as liberal and "freedom loving" as they are? We do not give any time for muslims to do so. "They must conform now!"

I'm not even going to go into that because I've had enough of hearing this retarded "relativism" arguement.

"I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
- awais
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #152 - March 05, 2009, 12:18 PM

Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 12:17 PM
Quote

Wasn't it a long hard struggle for the west to become as liberal and "freedom loving" as they are? We do not give any time for muslims to do so. "They must conform now!"

I'm not even going to go into that because I've had enough of hearing this retarded "relativism" arguement.

Well then fuck you too .

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
- HenriMonier
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #153 - March 05, 2009, 12:19 PM

Quote from: awais on March 05, 2009, 12:18 PM
Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 12:17 PM
Quote

Wasn't it a long hard struggle for the west to become as liberal and "freedom loving" as they are? We do not give any time for muslims to do so. "They must conform now!"

I'm not even going to go into that because I've had enough of hearing this retarded "relativism" arguement.

Well then fuck you too .

I never said anything about you personally but whatever helps you sleep at night.

"I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #154 - March 05, 2009, 03:04 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 11:57 AM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 03:57 AM
Quote from: Hassan on February 21, 2009, 03:07 PM
Because the implications of trying to destroy Islam are far worse.

How so? What do you think will happen if Islam were to be destroyed?

Islam must be destroyed to save humanity + Billions of Muslims who wont let go of Islam = violence

You are looking at it from a very worst case scenario and from the perspective of a psychopath. But anyways, would you say the above about fascism and would you have said the same thing about Nazism during WWII?

Quote
Whether it is rounding up Muslims to "reeducate" them (this will obviously involve violence) or just plain killing anyone who doesn't play ball - no sane person would say the ends would justify the violence needed.

Nobody is suggesting that.

Quote
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 03:57 AM
wanting to destroy an ideology doesn't necessarily mean that you have to accept those who have other agendas, be they violent or not.

The "Destroy Islam" crowd attract bigots by the truckload. I only have to look at some of the comments some people have left to know that they consider violence a perfectly acceptable option.

What if the "destroy Islam" crowd attracts some bigots? Does that make the "destroy Islam" idea any less or more?

Quote
If you think you can teach people Islam must be destroyed and keep the violent bigots away - you are fooling yourself.

The same can be said about you.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #155 - March 05, 2009, 03:06 PM

Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 12:02 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 03:57 AM
Quote from: Hassan on February 21, 2009, 03:07 PM
Because the implications of trying to destroy Islam are far worse.

How so? What do you think will happen if Islam were to be destroyed?

Quote
Those who are convinced Islam must be destroyed will inevitably attract those are quite happy to use violence and have other agendas too.

I disagree, wanting to destroy an ideology doesn't necessarily mean that you have to accept those who have other agendas, be they violent or not.

Welcome Shoeshiner chum. I am glad to see that you found your way here.

While I agree you with you that we should destroy this religion, I don't see how (anymore) we can. Even if we were to educate and lift Muslims worldwide out of poverty, even the most educated and intellectual person can still believe in violent, retarded nonsense. Therefore it might be impossible.

Anyway, welcome.

Hi and thanks FF!

I am a bit more optimistic and am hoping that what was done to Nazism can be done to Islam by educating the Muslims about their own religion (they are soooo ignorant about their religions, aren't they?) and by the passage of time and the evolution of human mind.
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #156 - March 05, 2009, 03:23 PM

You start by secularism, a blanket philosophy encouraging religion to be practised behind closed doors so as not to turn it underground, nor infringe on anyone's freedoms. A much better idea that may work eventually, unlike those that you mentioned.

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #157 - March 05, 2009, 03:28 PM

Welcome Shoeshiner (sorry, I hadn't realised it was a virgin post) - care to introduce yourself?

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- Zaephon
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #158 - March 05, 2009, 05:36 PM

Quote from: Hassan
And imagine if there was a world-wide movement to destroy Islam. How would it be controlled? How would anyone ensure things don't get out of hand? How would one keep the Christian zealots from trying to engineer their own agenda? Or the Nazis theirs? Or the power-mad authoritarian politicians theirs? Or the just plain shit-crazy whackos theirs?

So we're supposed to wait and allow Islamists to enjoy the slaughter?

I'd rather oppose Islamists with violence. Any kind of global struggle against Islam can only be carried out by ex-Muslims and ethno-religious minority groups, and as I have repeated so many times before, Muslims living in the West are insignificant compared to Muslims living in Islamistan. Things are already out of hand, teenager girls and gays are murdered daily, are we supposed to cocoon in our pacifist dreams?

Violent struggles between new, emerging secularist movements and traditionalist Islamic institutions is likely to happen in the future.

Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #159 - March 05, 2009, 06:02 PM

Quote from: Zaephon on March 05, 2009, 05:36 PM
I'd rather oppose Islamists with violence.

I'm not talking about the Islamists.

I'm talking about the use of violence against ordinary Muslims who don't want to give up their religion or refuse to be "reeducated".
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #160 - March 05, 2009, 06:25 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:02 PM
Quote from: Zaephon on March 05, 2009, 05:36 PM
I'd rather oppose Islamists with violence.

I'm not talking about the Islamists.

I'm talking about the use of violence against ordinary Muslims who don't want to give up their religion or refuse to be "reeducated".

You still haven't proven that wanting to destroy Islam will have to be done through violence!

Who said that we have to resort to violence to reeducate the ordinary Muslims?

Who will decide what the reformed Islam will be? Is wife beating OK in reformed Islam? How about cutting of the hands? Etc.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #161 - March 05, 2009, 06:31 PM

Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:25 PM
Who said that we have to resort to violence to reeducate the ordinary Muslims?

I'd be interested to hear how you would go about reeducating Muslims without violence?
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #162 - March 05, 2009, 06:33 PM

Cant wait for the answer.. please the suspense is killing me

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- Zaephon
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #163 - March 05, 2009, 06:34 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:02 PM
Quote from: Zaephon on March 05, 2009, 05:36 PM
I'd rather oppose Islamists with violence.

I'm not talking about the Islamists.

I'm talking about the use of violence against ordinary Muslims who don't want to give up their religion or refuse to be "reeducated".

If an ordinary Muslim doesn't have the guts to oppose pedophilia, the oppression of women, Islamic terrorism, Islamic oppression of minority groups, etc. then what makes him/her different from an Islamist? Lack of opportunity, or ideological zeal?

There is no real extant power to "reeducate Muslims" in the Islamic landscape. Ergo, we will have to create this power. Any ex-Muslim movement will be violently persecuted from its very inception, so it is only natural that any ex-Muslim movement will have to defend itself against these peaceful, ordinary Muslims through violence.

Do I have any sympathy for the mediocre Muslim, who ignores the suffering of the victims of Islam? No. I can only have sympathy for the truly ignorant, who know nothing about the vile aspects of Islam. We've been through this before, Hassan.

Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #164 - March 05, 2009, 06:41 PM

Quote from: Zaephon on March 05, 2009, 06:34 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:02 PM
Quote from: Zaephon on March 05, 2009, 05:36 PM
I'd rather oppose Islamists with violence.

I'm not talking about the Islamists.

I'm talking about the use of violence against ordinary Muslims who don't want to give up their religion or refuse to be "reeducated".

If an ordinary Muslim doesn't have the guts to oppose pedophilia, the oppression of women, Islamic terrorism, Islamic oppression of minority groups, etc. then what makes him/her different from an Islamist? Lack of opportunity, or ideological zeal?

There is no real extant power to "reeducate Muslims" in the Islamic landscape. Ergo, we will have to create this power. Any ex-Muslim movement will be violently persecuted from its very inception, so it is only natural that any ex-Muslim movement will have to defend itself against these peaceful, ordinary Muslims through violence.

Do I have any sympathy for the mediocre Muslim, who ignores the suffering of the victims of Islam? No. I can only have sympathy for the truly ignorant, who know nothing about the vile aspects of Islam. We've been through this before, Hassan.

I can see that you are focussed on the Islamic world - whereas I tend to have the UK, Europe and the West in general in mind.

Regarding the Islamic world. I doubt the ex-Muslim movement will ever reach the numbers required to challenge the majority of Muslims. But if they do, they would probably have to do it in alliance with moderate Muslims who want to get rid of the Islamist or oppressive rulers.

As for the the West - if an Ex-Muslim movement in alliance with those who want to destroy Islam in the West (i.e extreme right-wing nationalist and fascists and Christian fundamentalists) were to gain power and try to reeducate Muslims it would have to be done with violence (imho).

If you are happy with that - fine.

Of course I am not.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #165 - March 05, 2009, 06:43 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:31 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:25 PM
Who said that we have to resort to violence to reeducate the ordinary Muslims?

I'd be interested to hear how you would go about reeducating Muslims without violence?

Answering a question with a question? Why don't you answer my questions first and let us discuss the subject at hand before we move on?
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #166 - March 05, 2009, 06:48 PM

Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:25 PM
You still haven't proven that wanting to destroy Islam will have to be done through violence!

It is impossible for me to prove it.

I can only say that I in my opinion I don't believe one can get billions of Muslims to agree to reeducation without the use of violence.

So how you would you go about reeducating them without the use of violence?
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #167 - March 05, 2009, 06:50 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:41 PM
As for the the West - if an Ex-Muslim movement in alliance with those who want to destroy Islam in the West (i.e extreme right-wing nationalist and fascists and Christian fundamentalists) were to gain power and try to reeducate Muslims it would have to be done with violence.

If you are happy with that - fine.

Of course I am not.

If you are happy with half-baked assumptions like that, then fine. Of course I am not.

I don't find myself in those groups of people.

Can you see ex-Muslims wanting to eradicate Islam through education and such methods?
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #168 - March 05, 2009, 07:04 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:48 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:25 PM
You still haven't proven that wanting to destroy Islam will have to be done through violence!

It is impossible for me to prove it.

I can only say that I in my opinion I don't believe one can get billions of Muslims to agree to reeducation without the use of violence.

So how you would you go about reeducating them without the use of violence?

The thing is that wanting to reform Islam, as you do, will require reeducation too. From what you believe, you have to use violence to accomplish what you want.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #169 - March 05, 2009, 07:05 PM

Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:50 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:41 PM
As for the the West - if an Ex-Muslim movement in alliance with those who want to destroy Islam in the West (i.e extreme right-wing nationalist and fascists and Christian fundamentalists) were to gain power and try to reeducate Muslims it would have to be done with violence.

If you are happy with that - fine.

Of course I am not.

If you are happy with half-baked assumptions like that, then fine. Of course I am not.

I don't find myself in those groups of people.

Can you see ex-Muslims wanting to eradicate Islam through education and such methods?

If you are talking about the sorts of videos I make - then yes. (I'd be interested to hear about how you are reeducating Muslims) But if you are talking about forcibly reeducating ordinary Muslims who refuse to leave Islam then I will never accept that.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #170 - March 05, 2009, 07:08 PM

Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 07:04 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:48 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:25 PM
You still haven't proven that wanting to destroy Islam will have to be done through violence!

It is impossible for me to prove it.

I can only say that I in my opinion I don't believe one can get billions of Muslims to agree to reeducation without the use of violence.

So how you would you go about reeducating them without the use of violence?

The thing is that wanting to reform Islam, as you do, will require reeducation too. From what you believe, you have to use violence to accomplish what you want.

I am not interested in reforming Islam.

I simply do not see the need to eradicate Islam as a whole.

I can live with most Muslims - no problem.

The ones I can't live with are the extremists.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #171 - March 05, 2009, 07:09 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:05 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:50 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:41 PM
As for the the West - if an Ex-Muslim movement in alliance with those who want to destroy Islam in the West (i.e extreme right-wing nationalist and fascists and Christian fundamentalists) were to gain power and try to reeducate Muslims it would have to be done with violence.

If you are happy with that - fine.

Of course I am not.

If you are happy with half-baked assumptions like that, then fine. Of course I am not.

I don't find myself in those groups of people.

Can you see ex-Muslims wanting to eradicate Islam through education and such methods?

If you are talking about the sorts of videos I make - then yes. (I'd be interested to hear about how you are reeducating Muslims) But if you are talking about forcibly reeducating ordinary Muslims who refuse to leave Islam then I will never accept that.

Who exactly is forcibly reeducating Muslims? Is there a group that kidnaps Muslims and takes them to some unknown location....?

I'm glad that you agree that eradicating Islam doesn't have to be done through violence. That's important.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #172 - March 05, 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:08 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 07:04 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:48 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:25 PM
You still haven't proven that wanting to destroy Islam will have to be done through violence!

It is impossible for me to prove it.

I can only say that I in my opinion I don't believe one can get billions of Muslims to agree to reeducation without the use of violence.

So how you would you go about reeducating them without the use of violence?

The thing is that wanting to reform Islam, as you do, will require reeducation too. From what you believe, you have to use violence to accomplish what you want.

I am not interested in reforming Islam.

I simply do not see the need to eradicate Islam as a whole.

I can live with most Muslims - no problem.

The ones I can't live with are the extremists.

Well, here's where the line between reforming Islam and reeducating Muslims gets to be a little too thin.

It is your opinion that Islam is what a Muslim believes in. So a moderate Muslim has his own Islam and an extremist has his version of Islam. So when you try to reducate the Muslims, then you are in fact reforming their beliefs/Islam.

In other words, all your arguments against those who want to eradicate Islam applies to yourself as well. Who will be in charge of reeducating Muslims? What portions of the original Islam will have to be changed and taught to the Muslims? Will the Muslims want to let go of their beliefs? If not, will you resort to violence (apparently in your mind, one has no other options here)? Etc.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #173 - March 05, 2009, 07:18 PM

Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 07:09 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:05 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:50 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:41 PM
As for the the West - if an Ex-Muslim movement in alliance with those who want to destroy Islam in the West (i.e extreme right-wing nationalist and fascists and Christian fundamentalists) were to gain power and try to reeducate Muslims it would have to be done with violence.

If you are happy with that - fine.

Of course I am not.

If you are happy with half-baked assumptions like that, then fine. Of course I am not.

I don't find myself in those groups of people.

Can you see ex-Muslims wanting to eradicate Islam through education and such methods?

If you are talking about the sorts of videos I make - then yes. (I'd be interested to hear about how you are reeducating Muslims) But if you are talking about forcibly reeducating ordinary Muslims who refuse to leave Islam then I will never accept that.

Who exactly is forcibly reeducating Muslims? Is there a group that kidnaps Muslims and takes them to some unknown location....?

I'm glad that you agree that eradicating Islam doesn't have to be done through violence. That's important.

I didn't say that - I do think one would have to use violence to 'eradicate' Islam.

I doubt one will ever peacefully convince all Muslims that Islam is false - at least not in the forseeable future.

But I do believe we can have some effect - we can certainly help many to think and re-evaluate.

But I am happy to draw a line there.

I am not on a mission to eradicate Islam at any cost.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #174 - March 05, 2009, 07:21 PM

Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 07:09 PM

Who exactly is forcibly reeducating Muslims? Is there a group that kidnaps Muslims and takes them to some unknown location....?

And that is exactly what some of the comments I have received envisage.

If you are unaware of such people then you need to look a bit closer at those who rally to the call to "Destroy Islam".
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #175 - March 05, 2009, 07:23 PM

Quote from: Hassan
Regarding the Islamic world. I doubt the ex-Muslim movement will ever reach the numbers required to challenge the majority of Muslims. But if they do, they would probably have to do it in alliance with moderate Muslims who want to get rid of the Islamist or oppressive rulers.

Not now, not in a couple of centuries, but sooner or later Islam will start to devour itself. The only Muslim who is worthy of any respect at all is one who has the guts to reject the worst aspects of Islam. Conformist sheep who do not strive to enforce Shariah, but who do not really oppose it either, are not good allies. Contrary to what you think Hassan, moderate Muslims do not have any drive or motive to overthrow Islamic tyranny.

At any rate, you don't need massive numbers to launch a violent offensive against Islamic sheep and shepherds --you need dedicated, angry radicals with a good range of explosive equipment. I am not talking about civil wars, I am talking about asymmetric warfare.

All the successful models of secularism in the Islamic landscape have persecuted ordinary Muslims to some extent. It is high time Muslims get a dose of their own medicine. Time will come that a Muslim trying to rape "exposed meat" will be shot on the spot, a mob of Muslims trying to lynch apostates and infidels will be gunned down in return, and people who spout conspiracy theories and xenophobic hatred will be ridiculed and humiliated everywhere they go. Mosques will be shut down, Islamic shrines will be desecrated, and hateful Imams will be dragged on the streets. Copies of the Quran will be appropriated, and publicly burnt.

Unlikely? For the time being, yes. But remember that similar events were commonplace during the French Revolution. Considering the culture of violence and retribution which dominates much of the Islamic landscape, a peaceful transition is quite unlikely. Islam will not die easily, but it will die.

Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #176 - March 05, 2009, 07:27 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:18 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 07:09 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:05 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 06:50 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 06:41 PM
As for the the West - if an Ex-Muslim movement in alliance with those who want to destroy Islam in the West (i.e extreme right-wing nationalist and fascists and Christian fundamentalists) were to gain power and try to reeducate Muslims it would have to be done with violence.

If you are happy with that - fine.

Of course I am not.

If you are happy with half-baked assumptions like that, then fine. Of course I am not.

I don't find myself in those groups of people.

Can you see ex-Muslims wanting to eradicate Islam through education and such methods?

If you are talking about the sorts of videos I make - then yes. (I'd be interested to hear about how you are reeducating Muslims) But if you are talking about forcibly reeducating ordinary Muslims who refuse to leave Islam then I will never accept that.

Who exactly is forcibly reeducating Muslims? Is there a group that kidnaps Muslims and takes them to some unknown location....?

I'm glad that you agree that eradicating Islam doesn't have to be done through violence. That's important.

I didn't say that - I do think one would have to use violence to 'eradicate' Islam.

I doubt one will ever peacefully convince all Muslims that Islam is false - at least not in the forseeable future.

But I do believe we can have some effect - we can certainly help many to think and re-evaluate.

But I am happy to draw a line there.

I am not on a mission to eradicate Islam at any cost.

I think that you are taking the "eradicate" part too literally. I think that even Ali Sina knows that Islam will most probably never be COMPLETELY wiped off the face of the earth. By eradicate, I and people like me are talking about severly marginalizing the religion the way Zionism and other hate filled ideologies were marginalized.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #177 - March 05, 2009, 07:28 PM

Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 07:16 PM
Who will be in charge of reeducating Muslims? What portions of the original Islam will have to be changed and taught to the Muslims? Will the Muslims want to let go of their beliefs? If not, will you resort to violence (apparently in your mind, one has no other options here)? Etc.

I am not in favour of any sort or organization to reeducate Muslims. Just a free society where ex-Muslims can speak out is enough for me.

I am not interested in what portions of Islam ppl keep or leave - so long as they are not violent. (Just as I am not out to strike out any parts of the bible).

I will never resort to violence except to defend myself or others.

OK I have answered enough questions. How about you tell me how you would go about reeducating Muslims?

And you can see my contribution on Youtube - what contribution you are making?
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #178 - March 05, 2009, 07:29 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:21 PM
Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 07:09 PM

Who exactly is forcibly reeducating Muslims? Is there a group that kidnaps Muslims and takes them to some unknown location....?

And that is exactly what some of the comments I have received envisage.

If you are unaware of such people then you need to look a bit closer at those who rally to the call to "Destroy Islam".

And again, you are brushing all of us with the same brush.

Don't let their comments distract you from what this ex-Muslim and others are trying to accomplish.
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Re: Ex-Muslim Liberals, Please Wait a Minute!!
Reply #179 - March 05, 2009, 07:31 PM

Quote from: shoeshiner on March 05, 2009, 07:27 PM
I think that you are taking the "eradicate" part too literally.

And don't you think many others will too?

That's exactly why we need to moderate our language.
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