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 Topic: To smack kids or not to smack..........

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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #120 - March 06, 2009, 12:26 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on March 06, 2009, 11:40 AM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 11:27 AM
    Its a generalization is it not? I never qualified your generalizations as "terrible" or worthy of stormfront

    No, it is a summary of contemporary Turkish politics. If it's a stereotype, it stems from valid roots.

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    (although I think many many many anti-islam sites are just stormfronts against Muslims, including FFI)

    Lol, talk about stereotypes now! Such integrity!

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    after all if I said I spoke to god yesterday... most people (and Im including atheists here) would label me crazy.

    Mohammad did exactly this, yet a billion Muslims worship his fictional deity. Go figure.

    Also, didn't you accuse Cheetah of racism some time ago? That was your cheapest strawman ever, and it just shows how easily you get stuck in your hypothetical constructs.


    I dont recall accusing Cheetah of racism, perhaps you can refresh my memory?
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #121 - March 06, 2009, 12:55 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    I dont recall accusing Cheetah of racism, perhaps you can refresh my memory?

    You were whining about how one of our members was angry at you because you were a white convert, who turned out to be Cheetah. And of course, what she said was completely different than what you imagined it to be, so Cheetah had easily refuted your complaints.

    Start here...
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3554.msg91210#msg91210
    and read until...
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3554.msg91241#msg91241

    You always whine about bigotry AW, you always use the race card, you always toss your strawmen around. You always refer to your experiences and a bunch of "Muslim friends" who, apparently, represent the entire Islamic landscape. You make a revisionist statement about Mohammad's pedophilia, expecting us to take that statement for granted without providing any evidence or arguments, then you avoid any related discussion because... we are all evil bigots hellbent on the destruction of Islam. Integrity?

    Now, the pedophilia thread please?
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #122 - March 08, 2009, 12:32 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on March 06, 2009, 12:55 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    I dont recall accusing Cheetah of racism, perhaps you can refresh my memory?

    You were whining about how one of our members was angry at you because you were a white convert, who turned out to be Cheetah. And of course, what she said was completely different than what you imagined it to be, so Cheetah had easily refuted your complaints.

    Start here...
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3554.msg91210#msg91210
    and read until...
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3554.msg91241#msg91241



    I checked and I didnt accuse her of racism as you again falsely fucking claimed. 
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #123 - March 08, 2009, 12:39 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on March 06, 2009, 12:55 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    I dont recall accusing Cheetah of racism, perhaps you can refresh my memory?

     

    You always whine about bigotry AW, you always use the race card, you always toss your strawmen around. You always refer to your experiences and a bunch of "Muslim friends" who, apparently, represent the entire Islamic landscape. You make a revisionist statement about Mohammad's pedophilia, expecting us to take that statement for granted without providing any evidence or arguments, then you avoid any related discussion because... we are all evil bigots hellbent on the destruction of Islam. Integrity?

    Now, the pedophilia thread please?


    What pedophilia thread? I dont have to start a thread about anything, its your fucking assertion, start your own fucking thread.

    In the meantime, if you cant argue without crass generalizations and decending yourself into self righteous drivel, might I suggest FFI, Jwatch or Jchat?

     
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #124 - March 08, 2009, 01:18 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 08, 2009, 12:39 PM
    What pedophilia thread? I dont have to start a thread about anything, its your fucking assertion, start your own fucking thread.

    In the meantime, if you cant argue without crass generalizations and decending yourself into self righteous drivel, might I suggest FFI, Jwatch or Jchat?

    Since it was you who suggested that Mohammad was not a fucking pedophile, why aren't you kind enough to educate us ignorant infidels on this issue? We fucking look forward to being enlightened.

    In the meantime, if you cannot defend your point without making pathetic judgements about where people belong, and if you cannot provide any evidence for your claims i.e. any proof that Mohammad wasn't a pedophile, may I suggest Ummah.com or another Islamic website?
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #125 - March 08, 2009, 01:28 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on March 08, 2009, 01:18 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 08, 2009, 12:39 PM
    What pedophilia thread? I dont have to start a thread about anything, its your fucking assertion, start your own fucking thread.

    In the meantime, if you cant argue without crass generalizations and decending yourself into self righteous drivel, might I suggest FFI, Jwatch or Jchat?

    Since it was you who suggested that Mohammad was not a fucking pedophile, why aren't you kind enough to educate us ignorant infidels on this issue? We fucking look forward to being enlightened.

    In the meantime, if you cannot defend your point without making pathetic judgements about where people belong, and if you cannot provide any evidence for your claims i.e. any proof that Mohammad wasn't a pedophile, may I suggest Ummah.com or another Islamic website?


    No, liar, you brought it up

    "You always complain about hyperboles. For you, our criticism of Mohammad's pedophilia was also an hyperbole. Right?"

    to which I responded:

    ". As for the charge of pedophilia, yes I think its ridiculous and part of an overall to paint everything he did as necessarilly evil"

    I dont have to start any thread, I responded to your question. You wanna start a thread, go ahead, I may even post there to amuse myself.

    Other than that, I dont have to do anything. Got that, Liar?

    Whats next?  how Im a Nazi apologist because I like German beer?
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #126 - March 08, 2009, 02:08 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    Whats next?  how Im a Nazi apologist because I like German beer?

     icon_blahblah icon_blahblah icon_blahblah Yet another strawman.

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    ". As for the charge of pedophilia, yes I think its ridiculous and part of an overall to paint everything he did as necessarilly evil"

    ...which is an immense strawman, as it has already been pointed out. Is this even a reply? You casually claim that Mohammad wasn't a pedophile and then you come with a pathetic excuse to avoid debate. Now that's some integrity!

    Your hyperboles are old and tasteless, nobody accused you of being a "Nazi apologist," all that is brought to question is your casual denial of Mohammad's pedophile. Get it?
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #127 - March 08, 2009, 02:29 PM
    Dear Arab-Wannabe,

    As you asked, so shall be done. The Dawah is upon you!

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4640.msg118723;topicseen#new

     
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #128 - June 12, 2009, 08:22 AM
    My parents used to go slap happy everytime I said no and didnt want to do something they wanted like go to another pathetic hindu wedding, or eat any horrible wedding / Gujerati food. Normally, Indian food is nice but, gujerati 'shak roti' is worse then poo, and looks like it too.

    This one time I were watching TV, and my mum got bored so she decided to get her cane thing and start chasing me all over the house with it. Also my dad would throw his footwear at me when drunk. Now they deny everything.
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #129 - June 12, 2009, 11:39 AM
    God!  That's really awful ExHindu.  I'm sorry your family life has been so bad.  How well educated are your parents? 
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #130 - June 12, 2009, 02:28 PM
    Hitting children when they do something they shouldn't do is something for lazy parents in my opinion.
    I used to get hit by my parents. Usually I did the same things a over and over again before I decided by myself to not do it anymore.
    If my parents hugged me and asked me really nice and polite to not do it again, I'd probably stop doing it out of love.

    There was a Turkish woman murdered at her front door just 2 or 300 meters from my home.
    It turned out that she was killed by her son (in the 30's with some psychological disorders), because he had an awful youth.
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ExMuslims
    Council of Ex-Muslims of the Netherlands will be back!

    Never doubt that a small group of commited people can change te world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #131 - June 14, 2009, 07:48 PM
    Quote from: Nour on June 12, 2009, 11:39 AM
    God!  That's really awful ExHindu.  I'm sorry your family life has been so bad.  How well educated are your parents?  


    No education at all. Well, a few O levels for my dad, and no UK education at all for my mum.

    Quote from: Farid92 on June 12, 2009, 02:28 PM
    It turned out that she was killed by her son (in the 30's with some psychological disorders), because he had an awful youth.


    This might be me in 5 - 10 years time .... :(

    I am waiting for income support so I can get my own flat, and want to do a second degree next year, so hopefully if all goes according to plan I will turn out fine.
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #132 - July 03, 2009, 04:27 PM
    Quote from: ExHindu on June 12, 2009, 08:22 AM
    My parents used to go slap happy everytime I said no and didnt want to do something they wanted like go to another pathetic hindu wedding, or eat any horrible wedding / Gujerati food. Normally, Indian food is nice but, gujerati 'shak roti' is worse then poo, and looks like it too.

    This one time I were watching TV, and my mum got bored so she decided to get her cane thing and start chasing me all over the house with it. Also my dad would throw his footwear at me when drunk. Now they deny everything.


    Same.
    My Dad was very trigger happy and it happened everytime my brothers didn't read or do their homework, clean, if we ever said no or dared to question them.
    My Mom even had her own "weapons" to use, i remember my elder sister having her ear pierced without asking and my Mom held her down and ripped the earring out. It has all stopped now and likewise my parents have suffered memory loss on all those events

    But even with all that occuring, i do think spanking as a last resort or that sort of discipline can be good for the child given the right circumstances
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #133 - July 03, 2009, 04:42 PM
    I was smacked when I was a kid but was smacked in moderation. That is why it doesn't affect me particularly and smacking in moderation does no or little harm. However, some parents do take the michael and where would you draw the line between harmless smacking and abuse.

    I remember what we had to do in madrasah when we misbehaved! We had quite an old Afghan man as our teacher, and he used to make us put our arms between our legs, hold our ears and stand in that position. It is called the "Kaan Pakar" (Ear hold) or "Kukar" (Chicken). That was a really horrible punishment as you are standing in that position and your muscles really start aching. I know a lot of parents do that as well and I think that sort of punishment could be psychologically worse for a child than smacking. It is a mild form of torture!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #134 - July 04, 2009, 07:26 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere
    I was smacked when I was a kid but was smacked in moderation. That is why it doesn't affect me particularly and smacking in moderation does no or little harm. However, some parents do take the michael and where would you draw the line between harmless smacking and abuse.

    Smacking is also a mild form of torture.
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #135 - July 04, 2009, 09:03 AM
    Smack 'em. Smack 'em fuckin good! *shakes fist*
    fuck you
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #136 - July 04, 2009, 09:56 AM
    Quote from: Zaephon on July 04, 2009, 07:26 AM
    Smacking is also a mild form of torture.


    No it isn't.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #137 - July 04, 2009, 10:02 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere on July 03, 2009, 04:42 PM
    smacking in moderation does no or little harm

    you're a kind soul   Roll Eyes
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #138 - July 04, 2009, 10:09 AM
    I am a kind soul I will have you know. When I say smacking in moderation, I don't mean knocking the shit out of them all the time. I mean a light smack very occasionally. I was smacked occasionally and it has done me no harm. Most people in the world were probably smacked as children. Are most of the world suffering from severe psychological damage becaause of it?
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #139 - July 04, 2009, 10:19 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere on July 04, 2009, 10:09 AM
    I mean a light smack very occasionally.

    I knew what you meant, or are you talking about a light tap on the shoulder with a feather?  Smiley   

    Quote
    I was smacked occasionally and it has done me no harm.

    How do you know it has done you or the world no harm.  You are already attempting to justify hitting your children!

    Quote
    Most people in the world were probably smacked as children. Are most of the world suffering from severe psychological damage becaause of it?

     
    Have you seen then state of the world today?  Have you compared it to a world where smacking kids did not exist?

    Also why should you need to smack you kids?  What do you do they get used to your light smacks and they stop working?  Hit them harder?  What do you do if they start hitting other children at school when they think they have misbehaved?
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #140 - July 04, 2009, 10:23 AM
    Well to be fair Islame, when canes were removed from British schools, a generation of rude and ill mannered teenagers have been raised in comparison to the generations above us who are not like that at all.

    I don't know about you but i see a strong line between abuse and beating a child for fun and smacking a child lightly for discipline. If i ever have children, i would not hesitate in spanking if it was needed and truth be told, if our society had disciplined my generation a bit more. I doubt we would have ended up so messed up. As a teen, i knew people in school who smacked their parents, spat on teachers or hit them etc.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #141 - July 04, 2009, 10:26 AM
    I dont think we are messed up in comparison to the previous generation?  Many in our generation were hit by their parents anyway. Also establishing smacking as the only link causing the difference is very debateable. 
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #142 - July 04, 2009, 10:29 AM
    By the way, I have no kids!

    Anyway, I don't think you can look at the state of the world and say it would be a lot different if no kids were smacked. I think the state of the world can be blamed on the fact that most people are narrow minded morons.

    Quote
    Also why should you need to smack you kids?  What do you do they get used to your light smacks and they stop working?  Hit them harder?  What do you do if they start hitting other children at school when they think they have misbehaved?


    The reason you sometimes need to smack your kids is because kids are kids. They don't think as rationally as adults and occasionally, the the simple solution will work; a smack. They do something really bad, they get smacked for it, and they see the cause and effect. It also shows them who has the authority. And kids won't hit other children at shcool if they think they are misbehaving because they know that they don't have any authority.

    It is not as simple as "to smack or not to smack" and a line has to be drawn. I would never ever condone beatings and stuff like the "kukar". That is just plain wrong and abuse.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #143 - July 04, 2009, 10:31 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on July 04, 2009, 10:26 AM
    I dont think we are messed up in comparison to the previous generation?  Many in our generation were hit by their parents anyway. Also establishing smacking as the only link causing the difference is very debateable.  


    No they weren't.
    Labour has been slowly strangling a parents right to discipline their own children and then they turn around and whine about the lack of respect and parental control.
    We are just lucky Labour didn't pass a outright ban on spanking.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #144 - July 04, 2009, 10:39 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 04, 2009, 10:31 AM
    No they weren't.

    I dont know many who were never smacked as kids.  We can do a post here amongst UK born adults if you still arent sure?  Do you think kids in Sweden (where there is a ban) are worse than pakistani kids where they are spanked all the time?
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #145 - July 04, 2009, 10:49 AM
    I was battered, the angry street teenager it turned me into shows that violence doesn't stop bad behaviour.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #146 - July 04, 2009, 11:24 AM
    Perhaps there is a middle way with discipline. Too much is counter-productive and too little is so kind it's cruel. You should discipline a child in a consensual way if you can, such as telling the child to sit on the naughty step and if they comply, then it shows that they respect your disciplinary action and realize they deserved it. That is the most important thing, that they realize they deserved it. That is the whole point of discipline. Now when you hit a child, you do not know whether your child believes he/she deserves it yet, so you shouldn't do it. Some children that were hit as a child actually turn out okay - this is because even though the treatment they were given was harsh, they understand why they received it and they take that on board, thus the discipline was successful. Some children that were hit as a child turn out to be rebellious and lack closeness to their parents - this is because they were disciplined in a harsh way and they didn't understand or respect the discipline but rather they focused upon the fact it was harsh and instead of accepting judgment they pass judgment on the judges.

    If your child doesn't obey your disciplinary orders then I personally think there is nothing more effective than being given the silent treatment. That way your not actually coercing the child in any particular way either, so the child won't judge you as easily.

    I'm a great believer in discipline but the conception that discipline is a one-way street I totally disagree with. It is definitely a two-way street. This conception of discipline is easier to fit in coherently with a Libertarian belief, too, which I think is very important.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #147 - July 04, 2009, 11:49 AM
    I'm no parent, but a spank on the rear or a smack behind the head, I see nothing wrong with it. But I don't agree with using belts/bars/throwing hard shoes, thats too much.
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #148 - July 04, 2009, 11:52 AM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on July 04, 2009, 11:49 AM
    I'm no parent, but a spank on the rear or a smack behind the head, I see nothing wrong with it. But I don't agree with using belts/bars/throwing hard shoes, thats too much.

    Its bullying, pure & simple.  The sad fact is that the kids who have not been exposed to it, are more likely to be bullied by other children that were smacked & see physical force as an acceptable method of enforcement.
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  • Re: To smack kids or not to smack..........
     Reply #149 - July 04, 2009, 12:05 PM
    Quote from: J4m3z on July 04, 2009, 11:24 AM
    Perhaps there is a middle way with discipline. Too much is counter-productive and too little is so kind it's cruel. You should discipline a child in a consensual way if you can, such as telling the child to sit on the naughty step and if they comply, then it shows that they respect your disciplinary action and realize they deserved it. That is the most important thing, that they realize they deserved it. That is the whole point of discipline. Now when you hit a child, you do not know whether your child believes he/she deserves it yet, so you shouldn't do it. Some children that were hit as a child actually turn out okay - this is because even though the treatment they were given was harsh, they understand why they received it and they take that on board, thus the discipline was successful. Some children that were hit as a child turn out to be rebellious and lack closeness to their parents - this is because they were disciplined in a harsh way and they didn't understand or respect the discipline but rather they focused upon the fact it was harsh and instead of accepting judgment they pass judgment on the judges.

    If your child doesn't obey your disciplinary orders then I personally think there is nothing more effective than being given the silent treatment. That way your not actually coercing the child in any particular way either, so the child won't judge you as easily.

    I'm a great believer in discipline but the conception that discipline is a one-way street I totally disagree with. It is definitely a two-way street. This conception of discipline is easier to fit in coherently with a Libertarian belief, too, which I think is very important.

     Afro
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