Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


New Britain
Yesterday at 06:31 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
January 12, 2025, 09:05 AM

Lights on the way
by akay
January 11, 2025, 02:52 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
January 09, 2025, 09:33 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
January 09, 2025, 01:34 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 12:03 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 11:55 AM

News From Syria
by zeca
December 28, 2024, 12:29 AM

Mo Salah
December 26, 2024, 05:30 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
December 25, 2024, 10:58 AM

What's happened to the fo...
December 25, 2024, 02:29 AM

Berlin car crasher
by zeca
December 21, 2024, 11:10 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Copperkid's second comic!

 (Read 4543 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Copperkid's second comic!
     OP - February 27, 2009, 12:59 PM

    Ahlan ahlan, come in come in! Today I have a treat for you. It is a continuation of the first thread (Do you guys like comics.....) and it is the second comic by copperkid. This one is a lot longer, a lot more  detailed and the animation is better. This one is about the oft-repeated story of Muhammad marrying his daughter in law Zainab, a very controversial story, but a story supported by Quran and Sahih Hadith none the less.

    Enjoy

    (IF YOU CAN'T READ IT PROPERLY USE THE ZOOM IN FEATURE IN THE CORNER OF YOUR BROWSER)
































































    http://news.faithfreedom.org/gallery2/v/SiteGraphics/Copper+Kid/

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #1 - February 27, 2009, 01:12 PM

    By the way the accompanying Hadith for the first part is found in al Tabbari:

    "

    Tabari VIII:1        "In this year the Messenger married Zaynab bt. Jahsh [a first cousin: Allah's Messenger came to the house of Zayd bin [son of] Muhammad. Perhaps the Messenger missed him at that moment. Zaynab, Zayd's wife, rose to meet him. She was dressed only in a shift?. She jumped up eagerly and excited the admiration of Allah's Messenger, so that he turned away murmuring something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say overtly,
    'Glory be to Allah Almighty, who causes hearts to turn!'


    So Zayd went to Muhammad. 'Prophet, I have heard that you came to my house. Why didn't you go in? Perhaps Zaynab has excited your admiration, so I will leave her.'"


    Tabari VIII:3        "Zayd left her, and she became free. While the Messenger of Allah was talking with Aisha, a fainting overcame him. When he was released from it, he smiled and said, 'Who will go to Zaynab to tell her the good news? Allah has married her to me.'
    Then the Prophet recited [Quran 33] to the end of the passage.
    Aisha said, 'I became very uneasy because of what we heard about her beauty and another thing, the loftiest of matters, what Allah had done for her by personally giving her to him in marriage. I said that she would boast of it over us.'"


    Tabari VIII:4        "One day Muhammad went out looking for Zayd. Now there was a covering of haircloth over the doorway, but the wind had lifted the covering so that the doorway was uncovered. Zaynab was in her chamber, undressed, and admiration for her entered the heart of the Prophet. After that Allah made her unattractive to Zayd.'""


    Don't listen to the apologetics who disregard Al Tabari, he is the main mufaser and a lot of Islamic thought/practices come from his tafsir

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #2 - February 27, 2009, 01:18 PM

    Not as good, this one has false facts. 33:50 does not allow Mo to have sex outside of marriage with any women who offers herself. It allows Mo to marry a women if she offers herself to him without a dower. This privilege isn't allowed to anyone else. I don't know if Mo ever took advantage of this though.
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #3 - February 27, 2009, 01:28 PM

    Not as good, this one has false facts. 33:50 does not allow Mo to have sex outside of marriage with any women who offers herself. It allows Mo to marry a women if she offers herself to him without a dower. This privilege isn't allowed to anyone else. I don't know if Mo ever took advantage of this though.


    Pardon me for asking but isn't that the same thing? The marriage without a dowry takes about 10 seconds and the tallaq takes just as long?

    Nikah has also meant sex in a lot of original sources, I am currently searching for those sources and will post them when I find them

    Anyway

    Thanks for reading!

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #4 - February 27, 2009, 01:32 PM

    Not as good, this one has false facts. 33:50 does not allow Mo to have sex outside of marriage with any women who offers herself. It allows Mo to marry a women if she offers herself to him without a dower. This privilege isn't allowed to anyone else. I don't know if Mo ever took advantage of this though.


    Pardon me for asking but isn't that the same thing? The marriage without a dowry takes about 10 seconds and the tallaq takes just as long?

    Nikah has also meant sex in a lot of original sources, I am currently searching for those sources and will post them when I find them

    Anyway

    Thanks for reading!

    Well there is no hadith indicating Mo had any temporary marriages. I know of one story of a woman offering herself to him and he paid the dowry anyway apparently. I don't know which wife that was but I'll let you know when I find any information.
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #5 - February 27, 2009, 02:20 PM

    After reading a few articles on the meaning of the word and this area, it seems to be a confused area.

    While the word "Nikah" is translated as marriage into English, the word for marriage in the Quran and Hadith is often "tazweej" or "zawaaj". In fact, I searched through a lot of Hadiths in kitab al Nikah (the book of "marriage") in Bukhari (in Arabic of course) and found that when marriage was being discussed in the ahadith themselves, the only words used were Zawaaj. The only times I saw the word Nikah in the kitab were when they were inserted by Al Bukhari himself (for categories or commentary), in the hadiths themselves, the word nikah didn't appear.

    I'll show you, here is the title of one of the ahadith I mentioned (in Arabic-I will highlight the word Nikah):

    ‏ضرب الدف في النكاح والوليمة‏

    Here is the main body of the hadith (without the word nikah)

    دثنا ‏ ‏مسدد ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏بشر بن المفضل ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏خالد بن ذكوان ‏ ‏قال قالت ‏ ‏الربيع بنت معوذ بن عفراء ‏
    ‏جاء النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏فدخل حين ‏ ‏بني علي ‏ ‏فجلس على فراشي كمجلسك مني فجعلت جويريات لنا يضربن بالدف ويندبن من قتل من آبائي يوم ‏ ‏بدر ‏ ‏إذ قالت إحداهن وفينا نبي يعلم ما في غد فقال ‏ ‏دعي هذه وقولي بالذي كنت تقولين

    Having said that I can't find anywhere in the Quran where the word Nikah means sex either. It does seemed to have appeared from the word "istinkah" which is the root word of "yastankihaha" which can't be found in arabic dictionaries (this is the root word) and means either: "the request of  sex" or "the request of marriage", this is the word used in surah 33:50. "النَّبِيُّ أَنْ يَسْتَنْكِحَهَا "

    Here is an excerpt of the article I found interesting: (by Sam Shamoun)

    Quote



    (1) It is not at all clear whether the statement, "a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her (in arada al-nabiyyu an yastankihaha)," actually means that Muhammad could marry any woman without paying her a dowry. The text may actually be suggesting that Allah permitted Muhammad to have intercourse with any woman who gave herself to him without having to marry her! This is due to the word yastankihaha which the renowned commentary al-Qurtubi defined as:

    "Yas-tan-kih" comes from the word "Yan?kah." For it is said in different forms "Nakaha" and "Istan-kaha" just as it is said "Ajab" and "Ista-jab"? It is permissible to use the word, "Istan-kaha," to mean one whom requests marriage or one who requests sexual intercourse. (Al-Qurtubi on Q. 33:50, translated from the Arabic by brother Dimitrius; Arabic source; bold and italic emphasis ours)

    The following Muslim source candidly acknowledges that the word literally means to have sexual intercourse:

    a. Nikah linguistically means (to unite and to bring together). The REAL LITERAL meaning of Nikah is ?to have sexual intercourse?; and the METAPHORICAL meaning of Nikah is ?the bond of marriage?. (English Translation of Sunan Ibn Majah - Compiled by Imam Muhammad Bin Yazeed Ibn Majah Al-Qazwini, From Hadith No. 1783 to 2718, Ahadith edited and referenced by Hafiz Abu Tahir Zubair 'Ali Za'i, translated by Nasiruddin al-Khattab (Canada), final review by Abu Khaliyl (USA) [Darussalam Publications and Distributors, First Edition: June 2007], Volume 3, Chapter 9. Chapters On Marriage, p. 57; capital emphasis ours)


    http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Incoherence/mhd_marriages.html

    In the end, it's difficult to see whether the allegations against the word Nikah are true, it certainly is the case that Zawaj is used more prominantly in the Quran as the process of marriage and that the word Nikah seems to have ended up more common today (possibly though Bukhari's use) and it is a confusing issue.

    I leave it at that.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #6 - February 27, 2009, 02:27 PM

    That's quite interesting. But there is still no evidence that Mo had sex outside of marriage, there would've been an uproar and it will definitely have been mentioned in a hadith somewhere.
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #7 - February 27, 2009, 02:32 PM

    That's quite interesting. But there is still no evidence that Mo had sex outside of marriage, there would've been an uproar and it will definitely have been mentioned in a hadith somewhere.


    Actually he had sex with slave girls all the time. There is a lot of evidence for that (it was outside marriage by the way as we saw with the Muhammad and Hafsa story)

    But I know you meant free-believing women as it was suggested in the comic. I think he should have left that out, if he were still on FFI I would tell him not to include it in further publications but he isn't, so I can't.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #8 - February 27, 2009, 03:57 PM

    To me, the word Nikah means legal intercourse. And that is the clearest interpretation in the grey area that this word entails. Hak meant intercourse, and the Hak season was when people used to ambulate naked and have sex around the many Kaabas. Later the word became Hajj.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #9 - February 27, 2009, 04:09 PM

    Interesting video by the excellant "AhmadsQuran" on "Nikah"

    (Worth the 7 minutes)

    http://www.youtube.com/v/XJZqTnQ9n0Q&hl=en&fs=1

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #10 - February 27, 2009, 06:49 PM

    To me, the word Nikah means legal intercourse. And that is the clearest interpretation in the grey area that this word entails. Hak meant intercourse, and the Hak season was when people used to ambulate naked and have sex around the many Kaabas. Later the word became Hajj.

    Wut? Shocked

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #11 - March 01, 2009, 07:37 AM

    I've Seen these before, good, but not so good... the translation is shot in some parts... plus its not all that... where is the first part? I'm gonna look for it now that I know who did them.

    Cheers.
  • Re: Copperkid's second comic!
     Reply #12 - March 01, 2009, 01:57 PM

    I've Seen these before, good, but not so good... the translation is shot in some parts... plus its not all that... where is the first part? I'm gonna look for it now that I know who did them.

    Cheers.


    He has English as a second language so I think it's not easy for him

    Anyway the first one is found here:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4536.0

    Regards.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »