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 Topic: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people

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  • Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     OP - March 05, 2009, 06:59 PM

    Sahih Muslim Book 23 Book of Drinks- Kitab al Ashriba

    Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said: Do not eat with your left hand, for the Satan eats with his left hand.
     
    Book 023, Number 5008:
    Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: When any one of you intends to eat (meal), he should eat with his right hand. and when he (intends) to drink he should drink with his right hand, for the Satan eats with his left hand and drinks with his left hand.

    7 to 10% of the human population is left handed, & a similar proportion of Muslims must be left handed. Why this bigotry against them? As to the notion of Satan eating with his left hand, thats' ridiculous. Children who've forcefully been made right handed often start to stammer.

    I'm left handed & this is another beef I have with Prophet Muhammad.  finmad

    In his book Right-Hand, Left-Hand, Chris McManus of University College London argues that the proportion of left-handers is rising and left-handed people as a group have historically produced an above-average quota of high achievers. He says that left-handers' brains are structured differently in a way that widens their range of abilities, and the genes that determine left-handedness also govern development of the language centres of the brain.
    McManus also says that the increase in the 20th century of people identifying as left-handed could produce a corresponding intellectual advance and a leap in the number of mathematical, sporting, or artistic geniuses.
    In 2006, researchers at Lafayette College and Johns Hopkins University in a study found that left-handed men are 15 percent richer than right-handed men for those who attended college, and 26 percent richer if they graduated.

    Didn't Muhammad, with all his scientific knowledge, know this? Or know that if a person is forced to write with his\her right hand, it leads to stammering?

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #1 - March 05, 2009, 07:09 PM
    Its an ignorant, superstitious thing, on the same intellectual level as associating cats with witchcraft.  People associated left handedness with something sinister, I think sinister is even the latin word for left.  I never knew Muhammed succumbed to that particular piece of ignorance before, but if that was the only thing I knew about him, that would be enough to show me that his revelations weren't being guided by any God.

    He was just an ignorant man from an ignorant era.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #2 - March 05, 2009, 07:10 PM
    I knew he did because muslims of my parents' age in Pakistan were beaten if they wrote left-handed, and forced to write with their right. Beaten until they learnt to do so. Sick freaks.
    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #3 - March 05, 2009, 07:11 PM
    My (other) brother is left-handed and got scolded for using his left hand by one zealot in Egypt many years ago. He tried using his right hand but simply can't - I guess God made him 'wrong'.

    Now if anyone says he should use his right hand he basically tells them to 'fuck off' lol
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #4 - March 05, 2009, 07:14 PM
    I write with my right hand but do most everything else with my left.
    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #5 - March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc). There are even rigirous rules regarding which foot to enter a mosque and which foot to enter a toilet

    It just goes to show one of the silly things found across the board in Islam and furthermore, how obsessed our beloved prophet was in controlling every aspect of everyone's lives.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #6 - March 05, 2009, 07:44 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc). There are even rigirous rules regarding which foot to enter a mosque and which foot to enter a toilet

    It just goes to show one of the silly things found across the board in Islam and furthermore, how obsessed our beloved prophet was in controlling every aspect of everyone's lives.


    I don't think anyone is suggesting it is only extremists who do it - I always did it and even today find I will pass whatever I have in my right hand to my left so that I can take or give something with my right - old habits die hard.

    But at least it is a harmless ritual.

    Didn't you ever do it?
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #7 - March 05, 2009, 07:48 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:44 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc). There are even rigirous rules regarding which foot to enter a mosque and which foot to enter a toilet

    It just goes to show one of the silly things found across the board in Islam and furthermore, how obsessed our beloved prophet was in controlling every aspect of everyone's lives.


    I don't think anyone is suggesting it is only extremists who do it - I always did it and even today find I will pass whatever I have in my right hand to my left so that I can take or give something with my right - old habits die hard.

    But at least it is a harmless ritual.

    Didn't you ever do it?


    I did when I was young (otherwise I would get my hands slapped) but when I got older I got too lazy even as a Muslim. I used to feel a bit guilty for shirking this duty but it didn't stop me from drinking or eating with my left hand.

    Old habits do die hard, there are a good few old Islamic habits I have that are difficult to drop-but I wont go into that here.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #8 - March 05, 2009, 07:50 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on March 05, 2009, 07:09 PM
    I never knew Muhammed succumbed to that particular piece of ignorance before, but if that was the only thing I knew about him, that would be enough to show me that his revelations weren't being guided by any God.

    He was just an ignorant man from an ignorant era.


    Maybe then ,we should spread thw word amongst some left handed Muslims or Muslim parents of left handed kids, or Muslims who've been forced to write with their right hands, & suffered due to it in whatever way. You never know what exactly is the key to opening the floodgates of doubt for believing Muslims.

    My mom's cousin was herself a daughter of first cousins & married her second cousin who too was the son of first cousins, both their sons suffer from genetic abnormalities. This "aunt" of mine says that she no longer believes in Islam today, once she blindly accepted that the Quran contains scientific miracles-now she knows that its a book written by an ignorant man(the same term you used) who got his daughter Fatima married to his cousin Ali & set a bad precedent for Muslims-whose children are saddled with birth defects as a consequence of blindly believing in Muhammad's sunnah.  Cry

    Since you wouldn't have believed in Muhammad's revelations coming from the Almighty had you known that he subscribed to this ancient superstition, some Muslims, particularly some rationalist left handed ones,hopefully  might cease believing ... victory

    Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:44 PM
    But at least it is a harmless ritual.



    Not so harmless for left handed kids forced to write with their right hands or rebuked for doing anything with their left hands, I know a Muslim boy around 9 whose parents tied his left hand to his body & made him write with his right hand, as thats' what Muhammad taught, the boy continued to wet his bed & was sullen, withdrawn & unhappy, until a psychiatrist convinced his parents to stop this bulls***. Today, he's happily left handed, eats & writes with his left hand.

    Why demonize left handedness, a naturally occuring phenomenon, by connecting it to Satan? furious
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #9 - March 05, 2009, 07:56 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on March 05, 2009, 07:50 PM


    Not so harmless for left handed kids forced to write with their right hands or rebuked for doing anything with their left hands, I know a Muslim boy around 9 whose parents tied his left hand to his body & made him write with his right hand, as thats' what Muhammad taught, the boy continued to wet his bed & was sullen, withdrawn & unhappy, until a psychiatrist convinced his parents to stop this bulls***. Today, he's happily left handed, eats & writes with his left hand.

    Why demonize left handedness, a naturally occuring phenomenon, by connecting it to Satan? furious


    Fair point Rashna!
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #10 - March 05, 2009, 08:23 PM
    Too much detail but when I wipe my arse (with toilet paper, I hasten to add) I use my right hand. Could never cope with using my left for it.
    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #11 - March 06, 2009, 04:39 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 05, 2009, 07:11 PM
    My (other) brother is left-handed and got scolded for using his left hand by one zealot in Egypt many years ago. He tried using his right hand but simply can't - I guess God made him 'wrong'.

    Now if anyone says he should use his right hand he basically tells them to 'fuck off' lol

    Is he 26% richer then you by any chance.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #12 - March 06, 2009, 05:58 AM
    It seems no kind of minority is very happy in Muslim land-certainly homosexual minorities & non Muslim minorities are disadvantaged & discriminated against: And even left handed minorities!

    Muslim relation with-Jews, Christians, idolaters, homosexuals, feminists, neo pagans, non believers, even finmad left handed Shark

                                                    no no no
    The people who silently bear all oppression inadvertently side with the oppressors!
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #13 - March 06, 2009, 08:08 AM
    When I first arrived in Bahrain all those years ago...my newly acquired inlaws barely acknowledged my existence (first red flag) but his mother was moved enough to get upset that I was eating my sandwich with my left hand. She insisted my husband correct my "disgusting" bahavoir if I was to eat around the rest of them.  Huh?

    I never understood the ideas behind trying to correct the natural handedness of someone...something they are born with...or else make them feel Satan is their bestfriend..simply because of how they were born....seems like something God would have been willing to accept...since He the one created these left handed people.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #14 - March 06, 2009, 11:25 AM
    It's the same thing with homosexuality which is evidently a biological condition. Many muslims refuse to admit it's a biological condition and those that do say they should change their ways but do not acknowledge that the success rate for 'converting gays' is extremely low and usually harmful.

    So much for a scientific religion.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #15 - March 06, 2009, 11:39 AM
    I am left-handed and I have a paternal uncle who is also left-handed, my maternal grandfather was ambidextrous.  Growing up there was never a problem with me being a leftie, actually I'm ambidextrous as I tend to do certain things right-handed but that's beside the point.  I write, eat, and do most things with my left hand and only heard stories about people being forced to write with their right hand.

    It was not until I became a Muslim that I started to get harrassed about being a leftie, not for writing which didn't seem to bother anyone but eating with my left hand or even serving myself using a utensil in my left hand.  I learnt to adapt but still find myself eating with my left hand even though I still wash the Islamic way in the bathroom (I get crap from my roommate bacause I have a lotta in the bathroom) but I figure with the use of anti-bacterial soap and a good scrub with hot water it shouldn't be an issue. 

    All this left-handedness = Satan crap always peeved me off . furious 

    I figure that god made me left-handed for a reason and as I am an artistic person, my talent naturally flows through my left hand so if anyone gives me beef about it I tell them to feck off!

    However, when around Muslims or Asians in particular I will endeavour to use my right hand for giving/receiving and for eating but I always explain to them that as I am left-handed naturally do not be offended if I make a right mess of myself whilst eating with my right hand.
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #16 - March 06, 2009, 12:15 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc).


    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    only the literalists are like this, why the constant need to generalize?  This is something I noticed about the extreme anti-muslim people of the FFI/Jwatch flavour, constantly conflating all Muslims into one homogenous mass, constantly reminding everyone that "even the so-called [moderate] are like this or that"; and I absolutely love how you and your ilk always put "moderates" in brackets.

    Frankly Im starting to wonder if you are truly an ex-muslim. If you are, you are of Ali Sina variety which is just another form of extremism.
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #17 - March 06, 2009, 12:22 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 12:15 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc).


    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    only the literalists are like this, why the constant need to generalize?  This is something I noticed about the extreme anti-muslim people of the FFI/Jwatch flavour, constantly conflating all Muslims into one homogenous mass, constantly reminding everyone that "even the so-called [moderate] are like this or that"; and I absolutely love how you and your ilk always put "moderates" in brackets.

    Frankly Im starting to wonder if you are truly an ex-muslim. If you are, you are of Ali Sina variety which is just another form of extremism.

    He is correct, it can be found in the moderate muslims too and I have seen it, though nothing as extreme as this thread indicates. However that doesn't mean all moderates do it. I don't think FF intentionally meant to generalise all moderates.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #18 - March 06, 2009, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 06, 2009, 12:22 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 12:15 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc).


    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    only the literalists are like this, why the constant need to generalize?  This is something I noticed about the extreme anti-muslim people of the FFI/Jwatch flavour, constantly conflating all Muslims into one homogenous mass, constantly reminding everyone that "even the so-called [moderate] are like this or that"; and I absolutely love how you and your ilk always put "moderates" in brackets.

    Frankly Im starting to wonder if you are truly an ex-muslim. If you are, you are of Ali Sina variety which is just another form of extremism.

    He is correct, it can be found in the moderate muslims too and I have seen it, though nothing as extreme as this thread indicates. However that doesn't mean all moderates do it. I don't think FF intentionally meant to generalise all moderates.


    Thanks PS, I didn't mean to generalise of course. I meant that it isn't one of those things you can "unload" or "blame" the extremists for, it is something found across the board.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #19 - March 06, 2009, 12:37 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    I have conservative relatives who are pretty insistent about this always-use-your-right-hand rule. It is generally a harmless superstition, and superstitious beliefs can be pretty widespread among benign people.

    BloodcrazedMuslim, you always whine about Muslims being stereotyped yet you stereotype FinallyFree as you like, even questioning his apostasy because his views don't suit yours. "You cannot be a true apostate" is a very cheap, idiotic, and annoying accusation. I applaud your integrity!
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #20 - March 06, 2009, 01:49 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 12:15 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc).


    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    only the literalists are like this, why the constant need to generalize?  This is something I noticed about the extreme anti-muslim people of the FFI/Jwatch flavour, constantly conflating all Muslims into one homogenous mass, constantly reminding everyone that "even the so-called [moderate] are like this or that"; and I absolutely love how you and your ilk always put "moderates" in brackets.

    Frankly Im starting to wonder if you are truly an ex-muslim. If you are, you are of Ali Sina variety which is just another form of extremism.


    I definitely agree with you AW that there is a tendency to conflate all Muslims into one homogenous mass. But I have to say that using the right hand is a pretty widespread custom and not just confined to literalists.

    Though I don't see anything so bad about it so long as no-one tries to force left handed people or treats ppl badly as a result - and personally I have never seen anyone being obsessive about it apart from fundamentalists/literalists.

    But as a general rule - most Muslims regard things like eating/drinking/shaking hands etc... are things that should be done with the right hand.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #21 - March 06, 2009, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 06, 2009, 01:49 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 12:15 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc).


    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    only the literalists are like this, why the constant need to generalize?  This is something I noticed about the extreme anti-muslim people of the FFI/Jwatch flavour, constantly conflating all Muslims into one homogenous mass, constantly reminding everyone that "even the so-called [moderate] are like this or that"; and I absolutely love how you and your ilk always put "moderates" in brackets.

    Frankly Im starting to wonder if you are truly an ex-muslim. If you are, you are of Ali Sina variety which is just another form of extremism.


    I definitely agree with you AW that there is a tendency to conflate all Muslims into one homogenous mass. But I have to say that using the right hand is a pretty widespread custom and not just confined to literalists.


     
    Interesting, is there generally a difference between Pakistanis and North Africans?  Ive honestly never noticed with my north african friends (except the fervent ones)
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #22 - March 06, 2009, 02:11 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 06, 2009, 01:49 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 12:15 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 05, 2009, 07:25 PM
    Before anyone says this superstituous ritual and belief is only found among extremist Muslims-it's bullshit, even the most "moderate" Muslim will strive to use their right hand for everything "pure" (drink, eat, shake-no, not that!) and their left hand for everything unclean (cleaning oneself etc).


    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    only the literalists are like this, why the constant need to generalize?  This is something I noticed about the extreme anti-muslim people of the FFI/Jwatch flavour, constantly conflating all Muslims into one homogenous mass, constantly reminding everyone that "even the so-called [moderate] are like this or that"; and I absolutely love how you and your ilk always put "moderates" in brackets.

    Frankly Im starting to wonder if you are truly an ex-muslim. If you are, you are of Ali Sina variety which is just another form of extremism.


    I definitely agree with you AW that there is a tendency to conflate all Muslims into one homogenous mass. But I have to say that using the right hand is a pretty widespread custom and not just confined to literalists.


     
    Interesting, is there generally a difference between Pakistanis and North Africans?  Ive honestly never noticed with my north african friends (except the fervent ones)


    Well I suppose there are inevitably local differences in how strongly particular practises are followed and one has to be cautious when making assumptions based on personal experience, and that applies to me as well as you.

    But I would still say using the right hand is pretty widespread amongst most Muslims - not just literalists.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #23 - March 06, 2009, 02:12 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on March 06, 2009, 12:37 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    I have conservative relatives who are pretty insistent about this always-use-your-right-hand rule. It is generally a harmless superstition, and superstitious beliefs can be pretty widespread among benign people.

    BloodcrazedMuslim, you always whine about Muslims being stereotyped yet you stereotype FinallyFree as you like, even questioning his apostasy because his views don't suit yours. "You cannot be a true apostate" is a very cheap, idiotic, and annoying accusation. I applaud your integrity!


    I just find it strange when apostates (like Ali Sina) encourage generalisations about all Muslims. It doesnt make sense for someone who had intimate knowledge of Islamic culture (and logically would have met many Muslims in his/her lifetimes) to engage in such generalizations.  


    So I dont really see where ive stereotyped him, he clearly engaged in a generalization which is the hallmark of FFI (a site which he supports) and also one of your specialties Mr. Zaephon
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #24 - March 06, 2009, 02:14 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 02:12 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on March 06, 2009, 12:37 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    Why dont I know any of these Muslims? Where is this happening? I have turkish and maghrebin friends who don't do any of these things and they're believers.

    I have conservative relatives who are pretty insistent about this always-use-your-right-hand rule. It is generally a harmless superstition, and superstitious beliefs can be pretty widespread among benign people.

    BloodcrazedMuslim, you always whine about Muslims being stereotyped yet you stereotype FinallyFree as you like, even questioning his apostasy because his views don't suit yours. "You cannot be a true apostate" is a very cheap, idiotic, and annoying accusation. I applaud your integrity!


    I just find it strange when apostates (like Ali Sina) encourage generalisations about all Muslims. It doesnt make sense for someone who had intimate knowledge of Islamic culture (and logically would have met many Muslims in his/her lifetimes) to engage in such generalizations.  


    So I dont really see where ive stereotyped him, he clearly engaged in a generalization which is the hallmark of FFI (a site which he supports) and also one of your specialties Mr. Zaephon

    He has a pretty good reason for supporting FFI.

    I'm in agreement with you on Ali Sina. It does not make much sense to me either about how they can generalise muslims when many of their members used to be muslims themselves. I guess it's out of fear.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #25 - March 06, 2009, 02:23 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    So I dont really see where ive stereotyped him, he clearly engaged in a generalization which is the hallmark of FFI (a site which he supports) and also one of your specialties Mr. Zaephon

    You called him a false apostate because you don't like his ideas, isn't that stupid? And now you are saying that stereotyping Muslims is my specialty, where's your proof? Aren't you stereotyping ex-Muslims with your childish, baseless accusations? You have no right to complain about stereotypes because you are guilty of it. 

    PS: I'm still waiting you to create a thread to explain why Mohammad wasn't a pedophile. Thanks in advance.
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #26 - March 06, 2009, 03:20 PM
    To be fair, using right hand is not a Muslim only concept. It is equally spread in Hindus. Eating, writing and worship are to be done with right hand and cleaning with left hand. If you are in temple and touch some holy thing with left hand, it is not at all surprizing that an unknown uncle or auntie will frown at you and tell to use other hand.

    My brother is left handed and it is natural for him to use left hand and he had lot of ppl reminding him and he gets mad that they dont understand.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #27 - March 06, 2009, 04:19 PM
    The bit about left handed is widely spread in the world. The latin word for it was sinistra from which sinister came.It was widely viewed as somehow unnatural & connected with evilTill the early 20th century,teachers in the West would insist left handed kids write with their right hands. However, it just debunks the idea that the Quran or the Prophet is a super scientist, if the Prophet proclaims that Satan supposedly eats & drinks with his right hand.  Cheesy

    The Quran is the one correct religion from Allah, the others especially idolatrous ones from Satan & all those who disbelieve burn in Hell right?

    So the Quran has a further burden on it as it claims the status of the one true faith & denies universal salvation to non believers & buttresses that claim with its supposed scientific miracles-it better be all perfect & all knowledgable!  Wink

    Anyway, discrimination against the left handed is a pretty harmless thing in most situations, seldom has severe consequences.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #28 - March 06, 2009, 05:00 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 02:12 PM

    I just find it strange when apostates (like Ali Sina) encourage generalisations about all Muslims. It doesnt make sense for someone who had intimate knowledge of Islamic culture (and logically would have met many Muslims in his/her lifetimes) to engage in such generalizations.  


    So I dont really see where ive stereotyped him, he clearly engaged in a generalization which is the hallmark of FFI (a site which he supports) and also one of your specialties Mr. Zaephon


    I agree with you AW, I find it strange when I see ex-Muslims saying some of the things I read on FFI (and here on occasion) things like; deporting all Muslims -  FFS?Huh?Huh? How can someone who used to be a Muslim say that?Huh?

    But I guess everyone speaks from their experience and perspective.

    Some ex-Muslims have a great deal of anger due to what they have suffered or experienced.

    My experience was not like that so I don't have that - and it makes it hard for me to understand it.

    I think it is easier to reject Islam if one is angry - or suffered bad things - or were alienated in some way.

    It is essential though to retain a balanced perspective or we will just be dismissed as being simply angry and unbalanced.

    Just some thoughts.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
     Reply #29 - March 06, 2009, 06:57 PM
    I have to agree that  this is not a generalization...Muslims across the board generally make it a point to cause a fuss if they see you using the left hand for something they deem forbidden. We realize it was no doubt due to hygiene and was the reason for it in the old days...but even knowing there is hot soap and water which most people generally partake of...doesnt do much in getting past the "dirty" belief.
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