Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
Reply #30 - March 06, 2009, 08:13 PM

Wet tissue paper avoids any such problems - it doesnt matter which hand you use, its guaranteed to leave your hands and your rear clean as a whistle.

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- allat
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Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
Reply #31 - March 06, 2009, 09:04 PM

Quote from: IsLame on March 06, 2009, 08:13 PM
Wet tissue paper avoids any such problems - it doesnt matter which hand you use, its guaranteed to leave your hands and your rear clean as a whistle.

I totally agree... .... clean as a whistle.

Hassan posted:
Quote
Some ex-Muslims have a great deal of anger due to what they have suffered or experienced.

My experience was not like that so I don't have that - and it makes it hard for me to understand it.

I think it is easier to reject Islam if one is angry - or suffered bad things - or were alienated in some way.

It is essential though to retain a balanced perspective or we will just be dismissed as being simply angry and unbalanced.

Yup, I've noticed the anger in myself towards Islam and how it does turn off some people. But those of us who have been abused in the name of Islam who then saw the teachings of Islam that PROMOTE those abuses, can we really be expected to not have some anger towards that religion and its culture?

I know psychologically, you can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar, and I am working on channelling my anger into more positve and effective means of communication, but I had to first acknowledge and accept my anger as just a valid emotion.

Only after befriending my anger and being comfortable admitting to it and seeing myself as a human being with human shortcomings, only then am I able to communicate my ideas articulately so that even those not in agreement with my choices are able to at least understand why I have made them.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- Zaephon
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Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
Reply #32 - March 06, 2009, 09:22 PM

Quote from: allat
Only after befriending my anger and being comfortable admitting to it and seeing myself as a human being with human shortcomings, only then am I able to communicate my ideas articulately so that even those not in agreement with my choices are able to at least understand why I have made them.

+1

I also experience the same anger, and I'm trying to decide whether it's an intermediary stage, an undesirable side-effect, or an healthy emotion that should accompany full apostasy. Possibly all three.

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
Reply #33 - March 06, 2009, 11:05 PM

Quote from: allat on March 06, 2009, 09:04 PM

Hassan posted:
Quote
Some ex-Muslims have a great deal of anger due to what they have suffered or experienced.

My experience was not like that so I don't have that - and it makes it hard for me to understand it.

I think it is easier to reject Islam if one is angry - or suffered bad things - or were alienated in some way.

It is essential though to retain a balanced perspective or we will just be dismissed as being simply angry and unbalanced.

Yup, I've noticed the anger in myself towards Islam and how it does turn off some people. But those of us who have been abused in the name of Islam who then saw the teachings of Islam that PROMOTE those abuses, can we really be expected to not have some anger towards that religion and its culture?

I know psychologically, you can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar, and I am working on channelling my anger into more positve and effective means of communication, but I had to first acknowledge and accept my anger as just a valid emotion.

Only after befriending my anger and being comfortable admitting to it and seeing myself as a human being with human shortcomings, only then am I able to communicate my ideas articulately so that even those not in agreement with my choices are able to at least understand why I have made them.

Fair enough Allat, and perhaps that anger was necessary to get the ex-Muslim movement off the ground.

But if we want to appeal to a wider audience we need to moderate our tone. Otherwise we will only be an angry fringe shouting and venting from the sideline.
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Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
Reply #34 - March 07, 2009, 12:29 AM

Quote from: Zaephon on March 06, 2009, 09:22 PM
I also experience the same anger, and I'm trying to decide whether it's an intermediary stage, an undesirable side-effect, or an healthy emotion that should accompany full apostasy. Possibly all three.

Anger, like every other emotion, is just energy - it's not good or bad, it's just a lot of pent up energy. It can be channelled for creative rather than destructive purposes.

It's seems much more familiar to deny our anger (which leads to Depression), or to hate our anger (which leads to Anxiety). But it's really necessary to embrace our anger. Feel it, acknowledge it, respect it. Then find ways to use the IMMENSE energy in your anger to create something that would resolve the issue that caused your anger. I'm not talking about "revenge" but of resolution. So, if you were beaten by your parents because you weren't religious enough, you can work in the world to help other kids who were abused. If you were molested as a child by a religious clergy, you can raise awareness about this issue, and help others.

Anger won't be repressed and it won't disappear. It just takes a some introspection, being honest with yourself and being self aware of your own choices. It takes taking responsibility for what you're going to DO with you anger.

It's not the easiest journey, to try to befriend and transcend your anger, but it's the most fulfilling one.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
Reply #35 - March 07, 2009, 12:52 AM

Sadly muslims misdirect that anger by vitriole & focusing on destruction of the West. We focused our energies on getting rid of the cause.

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Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
Reply #36 - March 08, 2009, 05:16 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 06, 2009, 05:00 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 02:12 PM

I just find it strange when apostates (like Ali Sina) encourage generalisations about all Muslims. It doesnt make sense for someone who had intimate knowledge of Islamic culture (and logically would have met many Muslims in his/her lifetimes) to engage in such generalizations.

So I dont really see where ive stereotyped him, he clearly engaged in a generalization which is the hallmark of FFI (a site which he supports) and also one of your specialties Mr. Zaephon

I agree with you AW, I find it strange when I see ex-Muslims saying some of the things I read on FFI (and here on occasion) things like; deporting all Muslims - FFS? How can someone who used to be a Muslim say that?

But I guess everyone speaks from their experience and perspective.

It is a bit strange, something like overcompensation. But it still makes no sense for someone to actively support the forced deportation (which will obviously be a violent one) of people who may end up being family (not to mention numerous innocent men, women and children).

With Ali Sina (and now Wafa Sultan), I began to wonder if he fully understood the implications of his words, the logical conclusions to be derived from his words.

In other words if Islam and Muslims are what he says they are, and if taqqiya is real then all Muslims are at the very least potential terrorists. And why should the west take a chance on letting these people remain in the west?

These are the conclusions reached by the anti-muslim blogosphere which includes FFI, Jwatch, Jchat, atlas etc..

Maybe these apostates simply do not understand the west or westerners and how the latter will react if the anti-islam/muslim ideology becomes mainstream.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Prophet Muhammad's bigotry towards left handed people
Reply #37 - March 08, 2009, 05:51 PM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 08, 2009, 05:16 PM
Quote from: Hassan on March 06, 2009, 05:00 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on March 06, 2009, 02:12 PM

I just find it strange when apostates (like Ali Sina) encourage generalisations about all Muslims. It doesnt make sense for someone who had intimate knowledge of Islamic culture (and logically would have met many Muslims in his/her lifetimes) to engage in such generalizations.

So I dont really see where ive stereotyped him, he clearly engaged in a generalization which is the hallmark of FFI (a site which he supports) and also one of your specialties Mr. Zaephon

I agree with you AW, I find it strange when I see ex-Muslims saying some of the things I read on FFI (and here on occasion) things like; deporting all Muslims - FFS? How can someone who used to be a Muslim say that?

But I guess everyone speaks from their experience and perspective.

It is a bit strange, something like overcompensation. But it still makes no sense for someone to actively support the forced deportation (which will obviously be a violent one) of people who may end up being family (not to mention numerous innocent men, women and children).

With Ali Sina (and now Wafa Sultan), I began to wonder if he fully understood the implications of his words, the logical conclusions to be derived from his words.

In other words if Islam and Muslims are what he says they are, and if taqqiya is real then all Muslims are at the very least potential terrorists. And why should the west take a chance on letting these people remain in the west?

These are the conclusions reached by the anti-muslim blogosphere which includes FFI, Jwatch, Jchat, atlas etc..

Maybe these apostates simply do not understand the west or westerners and how the latter will react if the anti-islam/muslim ideology becomes mainstream.

Good point AW.

When I have pointed out the obvious logical consequences of what some of the more extreme statements will lead to I often get a reply like, 'oh you are jumping to conclusions - that's not what we are saying - you are reading too much into it etc...'

Maybe some people just don't think about the consequences of what they are saying - or understand how it will be received by many in the west - particularly far-right nationalists just itching for such an excuse to justify their agenda.
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