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 Topic: Mohammad, the Pedophile

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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #120 - March 12, 2009, 01:25 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 12, 2009, 01:15 PM
    Quote from: Emerald on March 12, 2009, 01:14 PM
    @ abdalwali,

    actually it's been mentioned in several books that Jubair divorced Aisha, (ie they were married).

    What books? Is it mentioned in any hadiths?

    =========

    Not Bukhari or Muslims,

    (The Great Biography Liars, by Ibn Sa'ad),

    (Al-Mo'jam Al Kabeer {The Great Lexicon}, by Al-Tabarani)

    among others,

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #121 - March 12, 2009, 01:28 PM
    Thanks Peruvian, I knew there were other examples but they didn't come to mind. And thanks Emerald for the sources.

    Aksel, I don't know about 'positive preference' - is it a term from psychology? I can't be sure that Muhammad was not a paedo - it's possible. However I imagine paedophilia to be like a fetish without which you can't get off. I could be wrong, and he did seem to want to fuck a lot - and mainly they were adult women, albeit young women.

    Jabir bin 'Abdullah recounts this story.

    'Abdullah died and he left (behind him) nine or seven daughters. I married a woman who had been previously married. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to me: Jabir, have you married? I said: Yes. He (again) said: A virgin or one previously married? I said: Messenger of Allah, with one who was previously married, whereupon he said: Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you could sport with her and she could sport with you, or you could amuse with her and she could amuse with you? I said to him: 'Abdullah died (he fell as martyr in Uhud) and left nine or seven daughters behind him; I, therefore, did not approve of the idea that I should bring a (girl) like them, but I preferred to bring a woman who should look after them and teach them good manners, whereupon he (Allah's Messenger) said: May Allah bless you, or he supplicated (for the) good (to be) conferred on me (by Allah). (Muslim)

    Of the two's morals who could not say that Jabir's was the better?

    Rashna, I am a father to a young daughter and she is the main reason (selfishly I admit) for my apotasy. I am not raising her in this religion. However, freedom of speech is a principle I have long held and, at least for now, I am sticking to this principle. I can understand your side of the story though.
    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #122 - March 12, 2009, 01:32 PM
    Quote from: abdalwali on March 12, 2009, 01:28 PM
    Thanks Peruvian, I knew there were other examples but they didn't come to mind. And thanks Emerald for the sources.

    Aksel, I don't know about 'positive preference' - is it a term from psychology? I can't be sure that Muhammad was not a paedo - it's possible. However I imagine paedophilia to be like a fetish without which you can't get off. I could be wrong, and he did seem to want to fuck a lot - and mainly they were adult women, albeit young women.

    Jabir bin 'Abdullah recounts this story.

    'Abdullah died and he left (behind him) nine or seven daughters. I married a woman who had been previously married. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to me: Jabir, have you married? I said: Yes. He (again) said: A virgin or one previously married? I said: Messenger of Allah, with one who was previously married, whereupon he said: Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you could sport with her and she could sport with you, or you could amuse with her and she could amuse with you? I said to him: 'Abdullah died (he fell as martyr in Uhud) and left nine or seven daughters behind him; I, therefore, did not approve of the idea that I should bring a (girl) like them, but I preferred to bring a woman who should look after them and teach them good manners, whereupon he (Allah's Messenger) said: May Allah bless you, or he supplicated (for the) good (to be) conferred on me (by Allah). (Muslim)

    Of the two's morals who could not say that Jabir's was the better?

    Rashna, I am a father to a young daughter and she is the main reason (selfishly I admit) for my apotasy. I am not raising her in this religion. However, freedom of speech is a principle I have long held and, at least for now, I am sticking to this principle. I can understand your side of the story though.

    I thought you were still a muslim abdalwali?
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #123 - March 12, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Christ. That's a long story. And one for another time I think. Suffice to say, while I like a lot of things about Islam and those who came after, I have not been a Muslim since September 2008.

    Edit: Also I haven't practiced any Islamic rituals since May, 2005.
    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #124 - March 12, 2009, 01:40 PM
     Afro  Welcome to the club
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #125 - March 12, 2009, 01:41 PM
    Quote from: abdalwali on March 12, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Christ. That's a long story. And one for another time I think. Suffice to say, while I like a lot of things about Islam and those who came after, I have not been a Muslim since September 2008.

    Edit: Also I haven't practiced any Islamic rituals since May, 2005.

    Ah, fair enough. You should post your testimony some time, I'd love to hear it Smiley
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #126 - March 12, 2009, 01:42 PM
    Oh, conjuring the "our glorious forefathers" argument...  Roll Eyes

    Our glorious grandfathers did many sick things. Human history has borne witness to great monstrosities, ranging from genocide to pedophilia. Just because earlier generations never questioned such deviant practices doesn't mean that we should try to "understand things in their context." A child victim of pedophilia was no different from the child victims of pedophilia today, they still had to endure the same psychological distress and great suffering. If we cannot dare to repudiate their actions, we can never progress.

    Can we say that ancient Egyptian royalty did not commit incest because it was acceptable by their standards? This is nothing but obscurantism and double-think.

    Also, proof is required that:

    1. Pedophilia was acceptable and widespread in Mo's society, which nobody volunteered to offer in this thread.
    2. Just exactly how Mohammad can avoid the label "pedophile" while Aisha was reportedly his favourite wife. An ordinary womaniser doesn't rape children.

    Mohammad may have been just another pedophile in human history, just as the Aztec priesthood indulged in human sacrifice casually, and just as the ancient Egyptian royalty engaged in incest without questioning it. This doesn't mean we cannot define his despicable behaviour in modern terminology. The word "genocide" was coined in the last century, but it describes many different chapters of ethnic cleansing in human history very clearly. To argue the opposite is obscurantism.
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #127 - March 12, 2009, 01:45 PM
    Quote from: abdalwali on March 12, 2009, 01:28 PM
    Thanks Peruvian, I knew there were other examples but they didn't come to mind. And thanks Emerald for the sources.

    Aksel, I don't know about 'positive preference' - is it a term from psychology? I can't be sure that Muhammad was not a paedo - it's possible. However I imagine paedophilia to be like a fetish without which you can't get off. I could be wrong, and he did seem to want to fuck a lot - and mainly they were adult women, albeit young women.

    According to this Mayo Clinic study of child sex offenders, 93% were attracted to adults also (page 3, "Categories of Pedophiles").

    Paedophiles exclusively attracted to kids seem the exception rather than the rule.


    Quote from: abdalwali on March 12, 2009, 01:28 PM
    Rashna, I am a father to a young daughter and she is the main reason (selfishly I admit) for my apotasy. I am not raising her in this religion. However, freedom of speech is a principle I have long held and, at least for now, I am sticking to this principle. I can understand your side of the story though.

    That is very brave and good of you.
    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #128 - March 12, 2009, 01:45 PM
    Quote from: abdalwali on March 12, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Christ. That's a long story. And one for another time I think. Suffice to say, while I like a lot of things about Islam and those who came after, I have not been a Muslim since September 2008.

    Edit: Also I haven't practiced any Islamic rituals since May, 2005.


    Christian now? No, just kidding. Cheesy
    Actually, I've felt very guilty about whether I  compelled you to call yourself a Muslim again with my sharp tongue ie sharp posts?

    In any case, its possibly to be a super feminist & super tolerant Muslim, I've seen my grandpa having these attributes, & its possible to be a sexist & intolerant atheist as well!

    P.S. I haven't met any sexist atheists!  Smiley
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #129 - March 12, 2009, 01:48 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on March 12, 2009, 01:45 PM
    P.S. I haven't met any sexist atheists!  Smiley

    ==========

    Many.. yes
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #130 - March 12, 2009, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: Emerald on March 12, 2009, 01:48 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on March 12, 2009, 01:45 PM
    P.S. I haven't met any sexist atheists!  Smiley

    ==========

    Many.. yes


    You have? Where? Often religious texts are the underpinnings of sexism, where do atheists get their sexism from?

    I'm curious.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #131 - March 12, 2009, 02:21 PM
    I met an atheist on another forum who said he preferred religious law to secularism. That was odd.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #132 - March 12, 2009, 02:23 PM
    Quote from: Rashna
    Often religious texts are the underpinnings of sexism, where do atheists get their sexism from?

    Yet those religious texts were written by mortals. Sexism predates the Age of Faith and will outlast it, unfortunately.
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • BAD TASTE WARNING
     Reply #133 - March 12, 2009, 02:40 PM
    I like your limerick Peruvian. Here's one by a YouTube troll called Mustafaweewee

    Muhammad, when aged 54
    poor Aishahs vagina he tore,
    He pulled out his flute,
    & proceeded to shoot,
    His sperm across the kindergarten floor.

    Rashna, you don't need to feel guilty. I think this forum depressed me somewhat from my more happy-go-lucky state when I joined, but still, there are important and serious topics that need to be discussed. My mother always told me "Life isn't all beer and skittles". Never understood that, never liked beer, never liked skittles but whatever.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #134 - March 12, 2009, 02:43 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on March 12, 2009, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: Emerald on March 12, 2009, 01:48 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on March 12, 2009, 01:45 PM
    P.S. I haven't met any sexist atheists!  Smiley

    ==========

    Many.. yes


    You have? Where? Often religious texts are the underpinnings of sexism, where do atheists get their sexism from?

    I'm curious.

    ============

    Misogyny, *SIGH*..

    Ok, read that:

    Aristotle, Darwin,  Nietzsche, and other famous ones had shown parts of their misogynistic thoughts, I don't wanna shock you and post what I read. no


    Ok, those are famous, I also met some blokes who couldn't resist not practicing their misogyny;

    my friend's dad let his 12 Y/O daughter cover up, yeah, he's atheist,  yes...not sexist?, Phuck'em.

     

    Men like to discriminate against the other gender,

    when I was telling my skeptic Sufi buddy about my apostasy and how Mo and his violence led to it beside women treatment in Islam,

    he was so moved and shocked to learn about the different raids and wars started by Mu, yet very indifferent about women,

    he even indicated that it's good to leave the power and control to us (men)..!!!

    It's a matter of selfishness, and the unlimited care to rule and rule..!
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #135 - March 12, 2009, 02:49 PM
    Quote from: abdalwali on March 12, 2009, 02:40 PM
    I like your limerick Peruvian. Here's one by a YouTube troll called Mustafaweewee

    Muhammad, when aged 54
    poor Aishahs vagina he tore,
    He pulled out his flute,
    & proceeded to shoot,
    His sperm across the kindergarten floor.

    Rashna, you don't need to feel guilty. I think this forum depressed me somewhat from my more happy-go-lucky state when I joined, but still, there are important and serious topics that need to be discussed. My mother always told me "Life isn't all beer and skittles". Never understood that, never liked beer, never liked skittles but whatever.

    Hehe that limericks quite sick. Mine wasn't written by me, I found it somewhere and thought it was quite clever.

    What's wrong with skittles? I love them! They also have awesome adverts  yes
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #136 - March 12, 2009, 02:57 PM
     thnkyu Emerald!

    I'll google  Aristotle, Darwin & Neitzche  & their sexist opinions!
    You're right, human desire for power & control over other creatures, races, faiths & genders is the root of sexism or other isms, but its still particularly despicable to invent a One True God & have Him speak in your sexist voice.

    Man:: I'd love to marry a virgin woman so that I know that her kids are mine! It'd be terrible to be tricked into raising someone else's kids'.
    YHWH: If a woman doesn't bleed on her wedding night, stone her on her Daddy's doorstep! furious

    Man:: I hate my wife talking back to me, or not keeping the house clean, not cooking tasty food etc, I wish I could control her!
    Allah: Women should obey their husbands, talk, separate & then beat your disobedient wives!  furious

    What a powerful control mechanism against women!Who can question divine sanction?
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #137 - March 12, 2009, 03:00 PM
    Wou wou wou! Im sure there are sexist Atheists out there. And im sure there are many sexist Men of different religions out there. But it dousnt matter if a man is religious or not, if he has complexes or insecurities about women, or is raised in a household where he learns sexist behavior, he will have to fight this his whole life. Just like somehow religion allways seems to claw itself into peoples minds who were brought up in a Religious familie.

    But you have to remember that the past 2000 Years were dictated by patriarchic societies. You cant get rid of these in 50 Years. The feminist Movement did a great job so far, but its still a long way to go until both Genders are equel.

    But on the other Hand, many pre Abrahamic Religions were Matriarchal, and the Women were the leaders. In a cultural enviroment were the Men often went away for several days for Hunting its not surpising that the Women took on the leader role. And we see some great Ape species who also live in matriarchal structures. Its not like Male dominance is natural.

    I think, as an Atheist raised by a feminist mother, that we need the time to get rid of 3000 Year old habits. We cant get rid of them in the next few month. Especialy when insecure Men try to hide behinde sexism to cover up their incompetence and fears.

    As a man you only get stronger if you accept the fact that Females are equal, in some areas are even better then men. It raises the bar to achieve more.
    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #138 - March 12, 2009, 03:07 PM
    Quote
    Ive read so much about Evolution and Science even before i got into Kindergarden that Religion seemed so amazingly stupid and ignorant to me.


    Quote
    Just like somehow religion allways seems to claw itself into peoples minds who were brought up in a Religious familie.


    I like you dude. You're giving me more pointers on how to raise my daughter than William Sears Smiley
    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #139 - March 12, 2009, 03:10 PM
    Quote from: abdalwali on March 12, 2009, 03:07 PM
    Quote
    Ive read so much about Evolution and Science even before i got into Kindergarden that Religion seemed so amazingly stupid and ignorant to me.


    Quote
    Just like somehow religion allways seems to claw itself into peoples minds who were brought up in a Religious familie.


    I like you dude. You're giving me more pointers on how to raise my daughter than William Sears Smiley


    Your welcome  dance

    just ignore the horrid grammar.  Wink

    Edit: Oh, and if you want her to educate herself about evolution, just show her Dinosaurs. First they are just cool looking dragon like Creatures. But in the End she will want to know more about them, and how they lived.

    Yea i know its a girl, but my anti sexism statement above still exists  Afro

    It worked for me!

    I was 2 years old when i saw this:



    And to this day it still makes more sense then anything ive read in any religious text.

    Way to go!  thnkyu Charles!
    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #140 - March 12, 2009, 03:24 PM
    I will look go to the local toy shop and look for some dinosaurs tomorrow insha Allah.  grin12
    Jazak Allah khair (*_~)

    She is my raihan in this world Smiley

    And my wife of course, but she's more an angel than sweet basil  yes

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #141 - March 12, 2009, 03:32 PM
    Oh yeah - your mum seems like a great mum. My mum was too and I never disbelieved in evolution even when i was Muslim.

    Think I will get a children's book explaining Chuck D's ideas.
    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #142 - March 12, 2009, 04:03 PM
    Quote from: coolred38 on March 08, 2009, 09:20 PM
    His marriage to Aisha was always a sticking point with me...besides her young age there is the question of consent. The potential bride must give consent for a marriage to be considered halal...she cannot be forced to marry (all though that is a common practice as well in the Muslim world) Obviously Aisha was too young to give her consent to being married off...to the Prophet no less...the standard for which other Muslims should strive...so how was that considered and Islamically correct marriage just from the consent of the potential brides perspective?

    Something Ive always wondered.  Huh?

    Wow. Forgot about this. It's an even worse aspect to the entire affair.

    Narrated Aisha
    The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Bukhari)

    Also here are some Orthodox perspectives from Abd ar-Rahman Robert Squires who quips "If it was good enough for Abraham(P) and Moses(P), then it's good enough for me..." and GF Haddad's refutation of moderate Muslim Amjad Moiz (aka 'The Learner') can be found here.
    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #143 - March 12, 2009, 04:06 PM
    As far as I'm aware the marriage of young girls requires the consent of their father.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #144 - March 12, 2009, 04:08 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 12, 2009, 04:06 PM
    As far as I'm aware the marriage of young girls requires the consent of their father.


    The marriage of all girls requires the consent of their father/brother/other male mahram.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #145 - March 12, 2009, 04:10 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 12, 2009, 04:06 PM
    As far as I'm aware the marriage of young girls requires the consent of their father.

    So if the mother disagrees, its irrelevent?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #146 - March 12, 2009, 04:18 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 12, 2009, 04:10 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 12, 2009, 04:06 PM
    As far as I'm aware the marriage of young girls requires the consent of their father.

    So if the mother disagrees, its irrelevent?

    It seems that way. As FF stated, it requires consent from males.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #147 - March 12, 2009, 04:26 PM
    Quote from: abdalwali on March 12, 2009, 03:24 PM
    I will look go to the local toy shop and look for some dinosaurs tomorrow insha Allah.  grin12
    Jazak Allah khair (*_~)


    I dunno how young your daughter is, but my sister who's almost 3 watched the two Jurassic Parks & went around telling everyone that she's a dino! She's grown out of that though!  Smiley
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #148 - March 12, 2009, 05:50 PM
    Even those Muslims who try to defend Muhammad's marriage to a 9 year-old would not allow such a thing to their own daughter. I knew one Salafi family that followed their Khalifah to Afghanistan (pre 911) but when their beloved leader tried to marry their 12 year-old daughter to one of the Mujahideen they fled back to (Kafir) UK.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #149 - March 12, 2009, 05:51 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 12, 2009, 04:08 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 12, 2009, 04:06 PM
    As far as I'm aware the marriage of young girls requires the consent of their father.


    The marriage of all girls requires the consent of their father/brother/other male mahram.

    =============

    Except for the divorcee, as I remember.
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
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