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 Topic: Mohammad, the Pedophile

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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #300 - October 09, 2009, 07:53 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 09, 2009, 05:09 PM
    The right NOT to accept Mo was a paedo only extends to heretics & non-believers. 

    A Muslim has to accept it as acceptable behaviour, as they understand these hadith to be 100% authentic.

    So in the context of this thread, your point does not stand.

    Damn you



     mysmilie_977 grin12
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #301 - October 09, 2009, 08:10 PM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on October 09, 2009, 04:48 PM
    The only thing I can add, is that since Aisha's age is derived from Hadith...which too were compiled 200+ years after Muhammad's death...and since we argue how accurate and factual all of them are...I think Aisha's actual could may as well NOT be 9 after all.

    Hadith is NOT 100% accurate evidence bear in mind.


    Yeah, I'm not sure either.

    People will point to one interpretation of events as being more consistent. But this is a red-herring analogous to doing the same with the Bible.

    I wonder how many different 'consistent' stories you can get out of it all?

    I wish there was more clarity with on the subject of Islamic historiography. It's just opaque enough that I can never be too sure where I stand with some issues.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #302 - October 09, 2009, 11:30 PM
    Quote from: panoptic on October 09, 2009, 08:10 PM
    I wish there was more clarity with on the subject of Islamic historiography. It's just opaque enough that I can never be too sure where I stand with some issues.

    If you find the time, watch this series by the History Channel

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csojgoZvlz8&feature=related
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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #303 - October 09, 2009, 11:47 PM
    Thanks for that. I'm watching now.

    Reza Aslan: "landed aristocracy"... I don't think so  Tongue
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #304 - October 10, 2009, 07:14 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 09, 2009, 11:30 PM
    If you find the time, watch this series by the History Channel

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csojgoZvlz8&feature=related


    You can watch the full episode here.

    http://quicksilverscreen.com/watch?video=36968
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #305 - October 11, 2009, 06:48 PM
    Some comments of the video:

    When did Islam ever take over Italy, as their map shows? (I know Sicily was)
    The initial Islamic empires never conquered what forms today's Greece as their map shows, only the Ottomans did.
    Tariq Ali argues that lesser Jihad or 'Holy war' came only after the Crusades. So holy war never applied for the original Islamic conquests of North Africa and other parts of the Roman empire and Persia?

    Though overall good, I feel there is a bit of exaggeration and Political correctness in the video.

    I found out only now that the Quran say only God can interpret it. Wow! then what are all these scholars upto?

    The video says "Muslims believe only Mohammed could interpret the Quran". Why? Isn't that like equating him to God?

    Surah 3:7 is quite interesting:

    Quote from: Allah
    He it is Who hath revealed u nto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.


    If you can't explain the things which are not clear(allegorical), if only God can interpret it, why was it revealed in the first place? Why didn't God reveal the interpretations too?


    "God is a geometer" - Plato

    "God is addicted to arithmetic" - Sir James Jeans
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #306 - October 11, 2009, 08:24 PM
    Quote from: brainyape on October 11, 2009, 06:48 PM
    Tariq Ali argues that lesser Jihad or 'Holy war' came only after the Crusades. So holy war never applied for the original Islamic conquests of North Africa and other parts of the Roman empire and Persia?

    Imho this is a load of bollocks. The first Islamic caliphate, Abbasid caliphate all the way to the Turkish Empire were essentially imperial powers trying to spread and assert their influence whenever they could. Pure colonialism imho. Now what I really don?t understand is why Islamic intellectuals (take Zia Sardar for example) always condemn Western imperialism but always forget about Islamic imperialism. How come ALL imperialisms aren?t equally condemned?

    I really would like to hear some opinions regarding this schizophrenic attitude.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #307 - October 11, 2009, 08:29 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 11, 2009, 08:24 PM
    How come ALL imperialisms aren?t equally condemned?

    I really would like to hear some opinions regarding this schizophrenic attitude.


    Because one is spreading good, the other is spreading evil
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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #308 - October 11, 2009, 08:31 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 11, 2009, 08:29 PM
    Because one is spreading good, the other is spreading evil


    Yep, one is "Haqq" and the other "Baatil" Afro
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #309 - October 11, 2009, 08:33 PM
    What is the term for haqq in English?
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #310 - October 11, 2009, 08:37 PM
    Haqq = Truth. (Baatil = Falshood).
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #311 - October 11, 2009, 08:40 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 11, 2009, 08:29 PM
    Because one is spreading good, the other is spreading evil

    And who decides on what is "good" and what is "evil"?
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #312 - October 11, 2009, 08:42 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 11, 2009, 08:40 PM
    And who decides on what is "good" and what is "evil"?


    That shitty dialectic is set up by the Almighty Himself!
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #313 - October 11, 2009, 08:53 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 11, 2009, 08:40 PM
    And who decides on what is "good" and what is "evil"?

    Stupid, its Allah of course!
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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #314 - October 11, 2009, 08:57 PM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on October 11, 2009, 08:42 PM
    That shitty dialectic is set up by the Almighty Himself!


    Quote from: IsLame on October 11, 2009, 08:53 PM
    Stupid, its Allah of course!


    Lol, you both made me laugh. Stupid me indeed.
    But seriously, what I would really like to know is how do Muslim intellectuals reconcile with this dualism in their heads?
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #315 - October 11, 2009, 09:00 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 11, 2009, 08:57 PM
    Lol, you both made me laugh. Stupid me indeed.
    But seriously, what I would really like to know is how do Muslim intellectuals reconcile this dualism in their heads?

    Oxymoron alert in bold
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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #316 - October 11, 2009, 09:07 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 11, 2009, 09:00 PM
    Oxymoron alert in bold


    Zia Sardar, Tariq Ramadan, Merryl Wyn Davies?
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #317 - October 11, 2009, 09:08 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 11, 2009, 09:00 PM
    Oxymoron alert in bold


    You're not serious are you?
    fuck you
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #318 - October 11, 2009, 09:26 PM
    Yep, I am talking about true Muslims, the list below do not follow the Islam of the Quran.  Also by following their own subversion of the script does not make them an intellectual in my book.
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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #319 - October 11, 2009, 09:28 PM
    C'mon IsLame - don't be like those who group all "religious" Muslims into one narrow definition - and claim they cannot be intellectuals.

    That's just plain stupid - keep some perspective. (I think that's one reason I like to take a break from this place from time to time.)

    I was a religious Muslim (I may not be brain of Britain but I was not a fool either) - nor is my (other) brother who also regards himself as a devout Muslim - so are many others I know - and ppl like Abdul Hakim, Sheikh Ahmad Babakir etc... - all of whom are intelligent and intellectuals.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #320 - October 11, 2009, 09:31 PM
    Sorry Hassan, they may be intelligent, but certainly not intellectuals in my book.  
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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #321 - October 11, 2009, 09:49 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 11, 2009, 08:24 PM
    Now what I really don?t understand is why Islamic intellectuals (take Zia Sardar for example) always condemn Western imperialism but always forget about Islamic imperialism. How come ALL imperialisms aren?t equally condemned?



    Excellent question! And it is something I have pondered on myself too.

    As for Ziauddin Sardar, I really want to write about him, get my teeth stuck into him for a discussion here one day.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #322 - October 11, 2009, 09:54 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 11, 2009, 09:26 PM
    Yep, I am talking about true Muslims, the list below do not follow the Islam of the Quran.


    "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy.

    Quote
    Also by following their own subversion of the script does not make them an intellectual in my book.


    What does make someone an intellectual in your book?
    fuck you
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #323 - October 11, 2009, 10:08 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on October 11, 2009, 09:54 PM
    "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy.

    Not really, there is no single definition of a Scotsman apart from someone who has some kind of ancestry based in Scotland.

    Islam on the otherhand is codified in the Quran.  To be a Muslim you have to believe in its tenets, if you dont then you are not following Islam. 
    Quote
    What does make someone an intellectual in your book?

    Its a personal thing, someone who I might call an intellectual, might not be in your books and vice versa. 

    For me it is someone who has earned my respect through their superior intelligence, enlightenment and further insight into the truths this world holds. 

    Its all encompassing, not like in intelligence which is more finite. 

    And certainly does not encompass somebody whose mind has been enabled to believe in Djinns, the concept of hell & heaven, creationism, accept sex with a 9 year old and marrying children, sees homosexuals as perverts,  and dont believe in equality of the sexes.
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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #324 - October 11, 2009, 10:15 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on October 11, 2009, 09:28 PM
    C'mon IsLame - don't be like those who group all "religious" Muslims into one narrow definition - and claim they cannot be intellectuals.

    That's just plain stupid - keep some perspective. (I think that's one reason I like to take a break from this place from time to time.)

    I was a religious Muslim (I may not be brain of Britain but I was not a fool either) - nor is my (other) brother who also regards himself as a devout Muslim - so are many others I know - and ppl like Abdul Hakim, Sheikh Ahmad Babakir etc... - all of whom are intelligent and intellectuals.


    Quote from: IsLame on October 11, 2009, 09:31 PM
    Sorry Hassan, they may be intelligent, but certainly not intellectuals in my book. 

    So who is an intellectual? What is your definition of an intellectual? As far as I am concerned an intellectual is by definition non-dogmatic.


    Quote from: billy on October 11, 2009, 09:49 PM

    Excellent question! And it is something I have pondered on myself too.

    As for Ziauddin Sardar, I really want to write about him, get my teeth stuck into him for a discussion here one day.


    During my love affair with Islam I used to think that he is brilliant, rational to the extreme, a true thinker. I read almost all his books, essays, etc. (he used to write for the New Statesman) but when I dug deeper into his work I found inconsistencies that bother me even today.

    Billy, I would love to hear your perspective on him.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #325 - October 11, 2009, 10:29 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 11, 2009, 10:15 PM
    What is your definition of an intellectual? As far as I am concerned an intellectual is by definition non-dogmatic.

    Not sure if you have to be non-dogmatic to be an intellectual, you could be so sure of your beliefs (like some emminent scientists) that would lead you to be opinionated.

    See my post to Qman for my definition.
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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #326 - October 12, 2009, 08:56 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on October 11, 2009, 09:28 PM
    C'mon IsLame - don't be like those who group all "religious" Muslims into one narrow definition - and claim they cannot be intellectuals.

    That's just plain stupid - keep some perspective. (I think that's one reason I like to take a break from this place from time to time.)

    I was a religious Muslim (I may not be brain of Britain but I was not a fool either) - nor is my (other) brother who also regards himself as a devout Muslim - so are many others I know - and ppl like Abdul Hakim, Sheikh Ahmad Babakir etc... - all of whom are intelligent and intellectuals.



    I have to agree with Hassan here. I have met some brilliant minds amongst the muslim academia including Abdal Hakim Murad and others. What I will say however, is that all though they are intellectuals, if the very foundation is slippery, no amount of arguments or debates is going to cut it. I say that not to insult them but to say that their minds really can be put to better use and it's a tragedy that they are using their minds within a closed framework.

    I have read some serious theology and theodicy that is well thought and worked out by people like Alvin Platinga and William Lane Craig as well as medieval theology and theodicy by people like Averoes and Aquinas. These guys are serious theologians and would probably throw the average laymen atheist/agnostic off guard. Unless the atheist/agnostic is trained well and can see the chink in the armour, the arguments they put forward will simply overwhelm you. I wouldn't put these guys on the same level as an average mullah or clergyman, even though the clergyman is still better equipped than the mullah. These theologians are trained in sophistry, rhetoric and logic and will use these tools outside of scripture to construct their arguments, unless you have read the rebuttals you might not see that they have built upon a false epistimology.

    Regardless of what their foundation is, the arguments that these theologians are taken very seriously by atheist philosophers such as; Richard Carrier, William Rowe and Quentin Smith in order to warrant a rebuttal.

    Yes we might walk up to a mullah and ask him whether or not God can make a square circle or create a stone he can't lift, but the guys I've mentioned above are well aware of these rhetorical traps and have their counter arguments.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #327 - October 12, 2009, 10:31 AM
    Just wanted to add this resource, which is related to what I said earlier regarding theology and theodicy. This site contains some brilliant articles and refutations to common arguments posited for the existence of God and related theological issues. I would recommend it to both atheist/agnostics and theists from any religion.

    http://www.infidels.org/library/
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #328 - October 12, 2009, 12:48 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 11, 2009, 09:31 PM
    Sorry Hassan, they may be intelligent, but certainly not intellectuals in my book.  


    Hmm... do you exclude all those who regard themselves as religious? Or only those who hold particular beliefs? Do you exclude even those who have metaphoric, esoteric or personal interpretations? Do you exclude only Muslims or do you regard all religious Christians, Jews and Hindus as also incapable of being intellectuals?

    Seems to me that you may have a pretty narrow definition of intellectual.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #329 - October 12, 2009, 12:59 PM
    Yes, to the above, what is your definition of intellectualism Islame?
    Ha Ha.
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