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Theme Changer

 Topic: Prophet Muhammad

 (Read 11822 times)
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  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #30 - March 23, 2009, 05:43 PM

    I don't know, but I feel it repulsive to compare Quran with toilet paper. Quran definitely has offensive bits, but there are some ood bits as well.

    In which case DON'T click on this link!

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #31 - March 23, 2009, 05:49 PM

    I don't know, but I feel it repulsive to compare Quran with toilet paper. Quran definitely has offensive bits, but there are some ood bits as well.

    In which case DON'T click on this link!

     Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #32 - March 23, 2009, 05:59 PM

    I don't know, but I feel it repulsive to compare Quran with toilet paper. Quran definitely has offensive bits, but there are some ood bits as well.

    In which case DON'T click on this link!


    I somehow find this dumb, unneccessarily provocative & offensive, is this just me? Huh?
    How would South African Blacks react if Nelson Mandela was on a toilet paper?
    Or African Americans if Martin Luther King was on a roll of toilet paper?

    I dunno it just makes me uncomfortable...

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #33 - March 23, 2009, 06:09 PM

    I somehow find this dumb, unneccessarily provocative & offensive, is this just me? Huh?
    How would South African Blacks react if Nelson Mandela was on a toilet paper?
    Or African Americans if Martin Luther King was on a roll of toilet paper?

    I dunno it just makes me uncomfortable...

    Not sure why? 

    You cannot equate Nelson Mandela & Martin Luther King  to Prophet Muhammed, who was not a certainly not a nice man?  Also the other false comparison is their followers (South African Blacks & African American), whereas none of us are Muslims?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #34 - March 23, 2009, 06:09 PM

    I also don't like all this talk of Qur'an and toilet paper. Do we really need to be so crude?

    I'm glad Calm and Rashna said it, as if I had said it first I'm sure someone would have said (or thought) Oh it's just Hass being too emotionally attached to Islam / being reluctant to criticise Islam etc...

    Maybe being on a forum like this all the time desensitizes us?
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #35 - March 23, 2009, 06:14 PM

    Hassan,
    Most of us are non religious. What worries me if we say 'Quran is toilet paper' etc. online / offline, it is very much possible that other religious fundies join us. However, by their double standard, they will not take it when it will come to 'Bible is a ___ ' or 'Geeta is ___'. And I don't want to unintentionally do something which will associate me with those kind of fundies, though I am critical of some aspects of Islam.

    I also don't like all this talk of Qur'an and toilet paper. Do we really need to be so crude?

    I'm glad Calm and Rashna said it, as if I had said it first I'm sure someone would have said (or thought) Oh it's just Hass being too emotionally attached to Islam / being reluctant to criticise Islam etc...

    Maybe being on a forum like this all the time desensitizes us?


  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #36 - March 23, 2009, 06:18 PM

    Hassan,
    Most of us are non religious. What worries me if we say 'Quran is toilet paper' etc. online / offline, it is very much possible that other religious fundies join us. However, by their double standard, they will not take it when it will come to 'Bible is a ___ ' or 'Geeta is ___'. And I don't want to unintentionally do something which will associate me with those kind of fundies, though I am critical of some aspects of Islam.



    I couldn't have said it better  Afro
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #37 - March 23, 2009, 06:25 PM

    Hassan,
    Most of us are non religious. What worries me if we say 'Quran is toilet paper' etc. online / offline, it is very much possible that other religious fundies join us. However, by their double standard, they will not take it when it will come to 'Bible is a ___ ' or 'Geeta is ___'. And I don't want to unintentionally do something which will associate me with those kind of fundies, though I am critical of some aspects of Islam.


    I thikn we need to question the purpose of comparing the Qur'an to toilet paper. It is not valid criticism of Islam or the Qur'an, the purpose is just to be offensive!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #38 - March 23, 2009, 06:35 PM

    I also don't like all this talk of Qur'an and toilet paper. Do we really need to be so crude?

    Yep Hass, it's crude. Nobody was being serious there though, it was just off-topic talk.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #39 - March 23, 2009, 06:37 PM

    yup, I see finally free said

    "My apologies I let my emotions get the best of me and I truly detest that book, I will re-edit that for something a little more sensitive."
     
    Sorry ppl if I read too much into it.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #40 - March 23, 2009, 06:39 PM

    I also don't like all this talk of Qur'an and toilet paper. Do we really need to be so crude?

    Yep Hass, it's crude. Nobody was being serious there though, it was just off-topic talk.


    I understand that, Zaephon and I don't want anyone to think I think badly of them for joking around like that - I know Pazazu and otheres here too well to think badly of them.

    I just think we need to pinch ourselves a bit and not slip into this sort of talk.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #41 - March 23, 2009, 06:40 PM

    Its crude, that's the humour - if you dont like crude humour, and provided its not breaking any forum rules, then best policy is to enjoy it or ignore it.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #42 - March 23, 2009, 06:55 PM

    Not sure why? 
    You cannot equate Nelson Mandela & Martin Luther King  to Prophet Muhammed, who was not a certainly not a nice man?  Also the other false comparison is their followers (South African Blacks & African American), whereas none of us are Muslims?


    @ Islame,
    Accusation1 Mo was not a nice man, unlike Martin Luther King & Mandela.

    I consider Mohammed one of the more unpleasant characters in either history or fiction & I've said so many times over. I've also criticised his actions which I consider objectionable. Not only is Mohammed a not- so- nice- man according to the standards of our times, he's not a good man even by the standards of 7th century Arabia-eg his religious bigotry towards idolaters & Jews, his marriage to his adopted niece Ayesha & adopted son's wife were stuff considered reprehensible even in his times & society. I would like to get the message across to Muslims that he's not a perfect example to follow- & I try to do that by pointing out the absurdities, misogynistic stuff, bigotry etc of this man to Muslims whenever I get the chance.
    However, writing out the Quran on toilet paper won't get this message across to Muslims, they'll just be mad that other people are out to blaspheme all that they hold dear.

    Please note that I believe that all religious texts ought to be criticised. I don't subscribe to my cousin Adil's notion that its all right to torture or kill those who blaspheme Islam, as they'd do the same if someone called their wife a whore. I think just like a public figure has to endure a certain amount of scrutiny of his personal life, so too will any faith which influences the lives of millions can & should be debated & discussed & I'm all for criticising the Quran but in a way that drives the message home to them that there's objectionable stuff in the Quran, not in a way which makes them feel that their beloved faith is under seige by bigoted & foolish people who have not the slightest idea of the Quran's contents.

    In the eyes of many Muslims, Mo is as good a man as Martin Luther King, perhaps infinitely better, & the best way to get the message across to him\her is not to put Mo on a toilet paper(which will have the same effect on the Muslim as putting Luther King on toilet paper would have on a Black American), but to explain why he wasn't an exemplary man, with relevant examples from the Quran & hadiths.

    Accusation 2: Martin Luther King & Mandela are respected by African Americans & Southern African Blacks, whereas we're non Muslims.

    I was talking about what the reaction of African American could be if White Americans manufactured & sold such toilet papers, there'd be a big brouhaha over racism. Same with Quran toilet paper, there'd be a brouhaha over hurting religious sentiments.

    To the African American, it'd seem that the Whites are deliberately discriminating against them, by maligning their hero, to the devout Muslim who considers Mo the insaan- i- kamil, Quran toilet paper seems like we kafirs are out to malign their faith too. The best way to convince the Muslims is by sincere & patient explanation & a thorough knowledge of the unpleasant contents(& pleasant) of the Quran & Hadiths, not by selling the Quran as toilet paper. mysmilie_977

    Its also not likely to make any skeptic Muslim or even devout Muslim who visits our humble abode very happy about our efforts, most likely he\she will be wary...

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #43 - March 23, 2009, 08:04 PM

    Not sure why? 
    You cannot equate Nelson Mandela & Martin Luther King  to Prophet Muhammed, who was not a certainly not a nice man?  Also the other false comparison is their followers (South African Blacks & African American), whereas none of us are Muslims?


    @ Islame,
    Accusation1 Mo was not a nice man, unlike Martin Luther King & Mandela.

    I consider Mohammed one of the more unpleasant characters in either history or fiction & I've said so many times over. I've also criticised his actions which I consider objectionable. Not only is Mohammed a not- so- nice- man according to the standards of our times, he's not a good man even by the standards of 7th century Arabia-eg his religious bigotry towards idolaters & Jews, his marriage to his adopted niece Ayesha & adopted son's wife were stuff considered reprehensible even in his times & society. I would like to get the message across to Muslims that he's not a perfect example to follow- & I try to do that by pointing out the absurdities, misogynistic stuff, bigotry etc of this man to Muslims whenever I get the chance.
    However, writing out the Quran on toilet paper won't get this message across to Muslims, they'll just be mad that other people are out to blaspheme all that they hold dear.

    Please note that I believe that all religious texts ought to be criticised. I don't subscribe to my cousin Adil's notion that its all right to torture or kill those who blaspheme Islam, as they'd do the same if someone called their wife a whore. I think just like a public figure has to endure a certain amount of scrutiny of his personal life, so too will any faith which influences the lives of millions can & should be debated & discussed & I'm all for criticising the Quran but in a way that drives the message home to them that there's objectionable stuff in the Quran, not in a way which makes them feel that their beloved faith is under seige by bigoted & foolish people who have not the slightest idea of the Quran's contents.

    In the eyes of many Muslims, Mo is as good a man as Martin Luther King, perhaps infinitely better, & the best way to get the message across to him\her is not to put Mo on a toilet paper(which will have the same effect on the Muslim as putting Luther King on toilet paper would have on a Black American), but to explain why he wasn't an exemplary man, with relevant examples from the Quran & hadiths.


    Think you may have missed my point, it was a crude joke, and by equating the Quran to toilet paper the purpose was obviously not to present an argumentative critique of Islam versus secularlism. 

    You may not appreciate crude jokes, thats fine - some people do, some people dont.  As I said earlier, laugh at jokes you enjoy and ignore the ones you dont, rather than spoiling it for the ones who do.

    Quote
    Accusation 2: Martin Luther King & Mandela are respected by African Americans & Southern African Blacks, whereas we're non Muslims.

    I was talking about what the reaction of African American could be if White Americans manufactured & sold such toilet papers, there'd be a big brouhaha over racism. Same with Quran toilet paper, there'd be a brouhaha over hurting religious sentiments.


    That doesnt worry me, in fact I think they have even less regard about hurting our religious sentiments.  Also this is an ex-muslim website, and would be a different if we were addressing a muslim audience in a mosque.

    Quote
    To the African American, it'd seem that the Whites are deliberately discriminating against them, by maligning their hero, to the devout Muslim who considers Mo the insaan- i- kamil, Quran toilet paper seems like we kafirs are out to malign their faith too. The best way to convince the Muslims is by sincere & patient explanation & a thorough knowledge of the unpleasant contents(& pleasant) of the Quran & Hadiths, not by selling the Quran as toilet paper. mysmilie_977

    Its also not likely to make any skeptic Muslim or even devout Muslim who visits our humble abode very happy about our efforts, most likely he\she will be wary...

    If anything I find the Quran more insulting and demeaning than the joke.

    I dont hold much respect for the Quran as I believe it was man made in order to control the people at the time, and sometimes our words will reflect that.   

    Its more honest and we simply cant censor our thoughts at all times in order to convert people. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #44 - March 23, 2009, 08:49 PM

    Weeeeeell As a *never-was-religious-in-any-form* person, i only can say i think Jesus is a better rolemodel then Mo'.

    If i had to chose a Religious Figure to teach my children wich example they should try to follow, i think Mo' wouldt make it into the top 100.

    Im just not convinced that a warrior is a good rolemodel in the 21st century.
    I like buddha. that fat little smileface  dance

    (im still chewing throu the koran. Dam this book is one boring piece of literature. No offence intended)

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #45 - March 23, 2009, 11:43 PM

    Its crude, that's the humour - if you dont like crude humour, and provided its not breaking any forum rules, then best policy is to enjoy it or ignore it.


    Exactly. Hence why I linked it instead of posting the picture, gave a warning about its contents... and anyway it's clearly photoshopped: you can see the rest of the toilet paper has no writing on it.

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #46 - March 24, 2009, 04:09 AM

    Think you may have missed my point, it was a crude joke, and by equating the Quran to toilet paper the purpose was obviously not to present an argumentative critique of Islam versus secularlism. 

    You may not appreciate crude jokes, thats fine - some people do, some people dont.  As I said earlier, laugh at jokes you enjoy and ignore the ones you dont, rather than spoiling it for the ones who do.

    Also this is an ex-muslim website, and would be a different if we were addressing a muslim audience in a mosque.



    Okay, I get the point Islame & Pazuzu.  Smiley

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #47 - March 25, 2009, 11:21 AM

    I don't know, but I feel it repulsive to compare Quran with toilet paper. Quran definitely has offensive bits, but there are some ood bits as well.

    In which case DON'T click on this link!


    Where can I get some rolls of that?
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #48 - March 25, 2009, 12:39 PM

    Where can I get some rolls of that?


    I dare you to exchange them for the rolls in your local mosque.  I can only imagine the Mullah's reaction after he sits down for a squeeze!

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #49 - March 25, 2009, 06:38 PM

    Where can I get some rolls of that?


    I dare you to exchange them for the rolls in your local mosque.  I can only imagine the Mullah's reaction after he sits down for a squeeze!


    They wouldn't have loo roll in the local mosque! Using loo roll is not considered clean enough for Muslims.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #50 - March 25, 2009, 07:06 PM

    true - and just as well..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #51 - March 27, 2009, 01:58 AM

    Its crude, that's the humour - if you dont like crude humour, and provided its not breaking any forum rules, then best policy is to enjoy it or ignore it.


    Exactly. Hence why I linked it instead of posting the picture, gave a warning about its contents... and anyway it's clearly photoshopped: you can see the rest of the toilet paper has no writing on it.


    Butt this isn't.  Cheesy
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #52 - March 29, 2009, 11:11 PM

    I just discovered these ahadith in which Muhammad says that it's ok to poke peoples eyes out with a sharp utensil if you discover them peeping.

    Is there no end to this evil mans barbarity!?!?!?  040 idiot2

    Sahih Bukhari
    Volume 9, Book 83, Number 38a:
    Narrated Anas:

    A man peeped into one of the dwelling places of the Prophet. The Prophet got up and aimed a sharp-edged arrow head (or wooden stick) at him to poke him stealthily.


    Sahih Bukhari
    Volume 9, Book 83, Number 38:
    Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd As-Sa'idi:

    A man peeped through a hole in the door of Allah's Apostle's house, and at that time, Allah's Apostle had a Midri (an iron comb or bar) with which he was rubbing his head. So when Allah's Apostle saw him, he said (to him), "If I had been sure that you were looking at me (through the door), I would have poked your eye with this (sharp iron bar)." Allah's Apostle added, "The asking for permission to enter has been enjoined so that one may not look unlawfully (at what there is in the house without the permission of its people)."


    Sahih Bukhari
    Volume 9, Book 83, Number 39:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    Abul Qasim said, "If any person peeps at you without your permission and you poke him with a stick and injure his eye, you will not be blamed."

    .
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #53 - March 29, 2009, 11:14 PM

    Don't worry, we have a vast army of "Koran-only" "moderate" Muslims ready to save us from that allegedly "fictional" Mohammed.  Don't worry, very soon there will be no more problem of Muslims taking the red-blooded Mohammed and his supremacist intolerance, fanaticism and hatred to heart!  The "Koran-only" Muslims will save us from the Ahadith!

    How can we tell the difference between harmless Muslims, and dangerous Muslims?
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #54 - March 30, 2009, 11:55 AM

    I started writing down some things to make this video yesterday, but found it's going waaayyyyyyyyy over 10 mins.

    So I'm gonna have to cut it down to just a few main points.

    The limitations of youtube are very restrictive, but it is a good way of getting a message across - and ppl switch off it's too long anyway.

    I'll cut it down and have another go when I get the chance.
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #55 - March 30, 2009, 12:03 PM

    May be you could make parts? Or just split the video off and explore different areas of Mohammed?
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #56 - March 30, 2009, 02:42 PM

    May be you could make parts? Or just split the video off and explore different areas of Mohammed?


    Yes you can split the video up into parts and create a playlist so that each video plays automatically in a sequence one after the other.

    I'd rather see a proper thorough work that spans a few videos with supporting scripture than one just skimming or not including key material.


    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #57 - March 30, 2009, 03:12 PM

    May be you could make parts? Or just split the video off and explore different areas of Mohammed?


    Yes you can split the video up into parts and create a playlist so that each video plays automatically in a sequence one after the other.

    I'd rather see a proper thorough work that spans a few videos with supporting scripture than one just skimming or not including key material.




    You may Ghazali, and me too, but will an ordinary Muslim with only have a fleeting interest in criticism of their religion? 

    Any presentation done for the masses, has to be prepared for the masses. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #58 - March 30, 2009, 04:48 PM

    Yes, I have to agree with IsLame and besides I simply don't have the time to devote to doing it thoroughly.

    So I'm sorry to disappoint, but it will be just a short sharp look at the question: "Was Muhammad a perfect role-model for all time"

    And I think that can be answered well (and keep viewers watching) without writing a thesis Smiley
  • Re: Prophet Muhammad
     Reply #59 - April 01, 2009, 10:49 AM

    Fair enough Hassan, I look forward to seeing it Afro
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