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 Poll

  • Question: Do you think Halal, Kosher & other types of animal sacrifices ought to be banned  (Voting closed: March 28, 2009, 07:29 PM)
  • Yes - 12 (54.5%)
  • No - 7 (31.8%)
  • Not sure - 0 (0%)
  • Don't care either way - 3 (13.6%)
  • Total Voters: 22

 Topic: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat

 (Read 12949 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     OP - March 23, 2009, 07:29 PM
    I think the Halal, Kosher & other types of animal sacrifices are very cruel to animals. I mean, humans believe in God,they don't so why should they suffer unneccessarily prolonged & cruel deaths? I've seen Halal slaughters & they're unbelievably cruel. I can understand having non vegetarian food, but religious animal sacrifices, of whatever faith but especially cruel methods like halal\kosher are unneccessary. Ought they to be banned?
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #1 - March 23, 2009, 07:34 PM
    Can't Halal and Kosher slaughter be carried out after making animal unconscious?
    I would say ban it, but may be that can be due to cultural conditioning where I come from.
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #2 - March 23, 2009, 07:36 PM
    They probly should, along with battery chicken farms, and many other factory farm practises that are about making profit at the expense of animal welfare.  Then there's the ongoing practise of using animals in experiments which have nothing to do saving human life, (testing make up and the like), the fur trade, the whaling industry, the endangerment of various species through destroying their habitats, and the practise of using wild animals for entertainment in travelling circuses.

    Its a big area, I don't think you can logically start with halal and kosher given that there are far more widespread abuses going on.  I still vote yes though, in theory I think it should be banned, in practise its way down the list of priorities for protecting animals from cruelty.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #3 - March 23, 2009, 07:58 PM
    I don't think there is any need to ban it. Killing an animal is not nice for the animal whichever way you do it. I don't think halal/kosher is any more cruel than any other form of slaughter.
    There is also debate amongst muslim scholars as to whether stunning an animal is halal or not.

    I agree with Cheetah in that there is no point in having this debate when the farming industry is unethical as it is.

    What would be the point in banning halal and kosher meat? It would only be forcing large groups of people to not eat meat.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #4 - March 23, 2009, 08:25 PM
    By the way, about five years back I was involved in killing a bull (for Qurban). I think I suffered more than the bull!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #5 - March 23, 2009, 08:40 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on March 23, 2009, 07:58 PM
    I don't think there is any need to ban it. Killing an animal is not nice for the animal whichever way you do it. I don't think halal/kosher is any more cruel than any other form of slaughter.

    I think there is a very legitimate reason to ban it if it's proven that the animal suffers more pain and discomfort compared to other humane methods of animal slaughter.  Let's listen to what the scientists have to say.

    All of the inhumane practices that Cheetah mentioned should be banned too of course.  It's not a matter of priority, it should just all stop, or gradually be phased out.


    Also, if the halal meat industry grows significantly then non-Muslims would be discriminated against because they wouldn't be allowed to work in slaughterhouses.

    One of the criteria's of halal meat is that the animal HAS to be slaughtered by a Muslim.

    So if we start to see the demand for halal meat grow in our schools and supermarkets then Muslims would practically have control over this whole industry.

    .
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #6 - March 23, 2009, 08:43 PM
    I think banning halal animal sacrifices over other forms of killing for food is hypocritical. Perhaps in the not so distant future when we are all enjoying shmeat products we'll have greater moral authority to look down upon the practice.
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90235492

    We have Canine teeth for good reason.


    BYum YumB

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #7 - March 23, 2009, 08:50 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on March 23, 2009, 08:43 PM
    I think banning halal animal sacrifices over other forms of killing for food is hypocritical.

    Why would it be hypocritical?

    It would only be hypocritical if a person disagreed with halal slaughter but sided with the other forms of animal cruelty.

    I'm saying that ALL forms of animal cruety should be banned (or gradually phased out).
    .
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #8 - March 23, 2009, 08:55 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on March 23, 2009, 08:40 PM
    I think there is a very legitimate reason to ban it if it's proven that the animal suffers more pain and discomfort compared to other humane methods of animal slaughter.  Let's listen to what the scientists have to say.

    All of the inhumane practices that Cheetah mentioned should be banned too of course.  It's not a matter of priority, it should just all stop, or gradually be phased out.


    Also, if the halal meat industry grows significantly then non-Muslims would be discriminated against because they wouldn't be allowed to work in slaughterhouses.

    One of the criteria's of halal meat is that the animal has to be slaughtered by a Muslim.

    So if we start to see the demand for halal meat grow in our schools and supermarkets then Muslims would practically have control this whole industry.


    No offence but that is such a ridiculous reason to ban halal meat! That non-muslims would be discriminated against! That is never going to happen! Anyway, there will always be a demand for pork so you do not have to worry about non-muslims who want to be slaughtermen (or slaughterwomen!).

    I just do not see any logic in banning halal and kosher. It would only be seen as the government picking on Muslims and Jews and it would be equated to the anti semitic Europe of the early 20th century when numerous countries banned ritual slaughter. Also, imagine if 2 million Muslims and Jews in the UK were told they were no longer allowed to eat meat! There would be outrage!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #9 - March 23, 2009, 09:58 PM
    Quote
    It would only be hypocritical if a person disagreed with halal slaughter but sided with the other forms of animal cruelty.


    I've witnessed a halal sacrifice and I think it died as quickly (or close enough) as any Bic Mac has.
    I have also seen pics on the internet of guys slowly killing a huge camel with what looks like a pen knife. That, I am against. I think we can reasonably demand people to kill animals as humanly as practically possible.

    Quote
    I'm saying that ALL forms of animal cruety should be banned (or gradually phased out).


    Well Shmeat can help us alot there.

    What about fly fishing and riding horses?

    BHuh?B
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #10 - March 23, 2009, 11:10 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on March 23, 2009, 09:58 PM
    Quote
    It would only be hypocritical if a person disagreed with halal slaughter but sided with the other forms of animal cruelty.


    I've witnessed a halal sacrifice and I think it died as quickly (or close enough) as any Bic Mac has.



    I thought stun guns were used for the Breeders of Big Macs?  Dont think a knife can beat that for speed and fallibility.. 

    Also looks less threatening than someone coming towards you with a beard and a knife, reciting words from the Holy Quran.
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #11 - March 24, 2009, 04:04 AM
    I think people should just start drinking protein shakes instead of eating meat.  cool2
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #12 - March 24, 2009, 04:32 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on March 23, 2009, 07:36 PM
    They probly should, along with battery chicken farms, and many other factory farm practises that are about making profit at the expense of animal welfare.  Then there's the ongoing practise of using animals in experiments which have nothing to do saving human life, (testing make up and the like), the fur trade, the whaling industry, the endangerment of various species through destroying their habitats, and the practise of using wild animals for entertainment in travelling circuses.

    Its a big area, I don't think you can logically start with halal and kosher given that there are far more widespread abuses going on.  I still vote yes though, in theory I think it should be banned, in practise its way down the list of priorities for protecting animals from cruelty.


     Afro Very well put!
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #13 - March 24, 2009, 07:45 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere on March 23, 2009, 08:25 PM
    By the way, about five years back I was involved in killing a bull (for Qurban). I think I suffered more than the bull!


    I understand & respect your view that halal\kosher sacrifice should not be outlawed, but isn't this a somewhat strange statement?  Huh?
    The bull lost its life, definitely suffered pain in the process...its a bit like saying that wife beating should not be outlawed, coz I slapped my wife sometime back for disobedience, but I think I suffered more than her as my hand turned so red!

    I'm not comparing women to animals here, just saying that the statement sounds strange.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #14 - March 24, 2009, 07:55 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on March 24, 2009, 04:32 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on March 23, 2009, 07:36 PM
    They probly should, along with battery chicken farms, and many other factory farm practises that are about making profit at the expense of animal welfare.  Then there's the ongoing practise of using animals in experiments which have nothing to do saving human life, (testing make up and the like), the fur trade, the whaling industry, the endangerment of various species through destroying their habitats, and the practise of using wild animals for entertainment in travelling circuses.

    Its a big area, I don't think you can logically start with halal and kosher given that there are far more widespread abuses going on.  I still vote yes though, in theory I think it should be banned, in practise its way down the list of priorities for protecting animals from cruelty.


     Afro Very well put!


    Thank you.   Smiley
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #15 - March 24, 2009, 10:26 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on March 24, 2009, 07:45 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere on March 23, 2009, 08:25 PM
    By the way, about five years back I was involved in killing a bull (for Qurban). I think I suffered more than the bull!


    I understand & respect your view that halal\kosher sacrifice should not be outlawed, but isn't this a somewhat strange statement?  Huh?
    The bull lost its life, definitely suffered pain in the process...its a bit like saying that wife beating should not be outlawed, coz I slapped my wife sometime back for disobedience, but I think I suffered more than her as my hand turned so red!

    I'm not comparing women to animals here, just saying that the statement sounds strange.


    It was a joke. Referring to me being physically weak and not being able to control the bull!  Cheesy
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #16 - March 24, 2009, 10:28 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere on March 23, 2009, 08:25 PM
    By the way, about five years back I was involved in killing a bull (for Qurban). I think I suffered more than the bull!

    Dont stop now, tell us more..
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  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #17 - March 24, 2009, 10:33 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 24, 2009, 10:28 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere on March 23, 2009, 08:25 PM
    By the way, about five years back I was involved in killing a bull (for Qurban). I think I suffered more than the bull!

    Dont stop now, tell us more..


    Its not that interesting really. It was Eid al Adha in Pakistan, and me and some other guy were bringing the bull in. It had ropes attached to its head and I was pulling it from one side and the other guy was pulling it from the other side. Then they knocked it over and tied its legs together.

    But bulls are strong animals! When I was pulling that rope, I was in a lot of pain and I thought I was going to give way any second! The only thing that stopped me was knowing that if I did let go, the bull would go on a rampage (i had never done anything like that before!)
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #18 - March 24, 2009, 11:04 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere on March 24, 2009, 10:33 AM

    Its not that interesting really. It was Eid al Adha in Pakistan, and me and some other guy were bringing the bull in. It had ropes attached to its head and I was pulling it from one side and the other guy was pulling it from the other side. Then they knocked it over and tied its legs together.

    But bulls are strong animals! When I was pulling that rope, I was in a lot of pain and I thought I was going to give way any second! The only thing that stopped me was knowing that if I did let go, the bull would go on a rampage (i had never done anything like that before!)

    How did they kill it in the end?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #19 - March 24, 2009, 11:15 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 24, 2009, 11:04 AM
    How did they kill it in the end?


    They knock it to the ground, tie its legs together and cuts its throat with a very sharp knife.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #20 - March 24, 2009, 11:21 AM
    I watched a sheep being slaughtered for Qurbani once...worst thing I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot...

    I've also visited a slaughter house, still disgusting but I know where I'd rather be.

    They should either make it obligatory to stun the animal first and comply with the UK method or they ban the practice.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #21 - March 24, 2009, 12:45 PM
    With Halaal and Kosher the animal must be alive for the blood to drain out.

    So the neck is slit, ensuring the animal stays alive long enough with a pumping heart to ensure the blood drains out through the cut in the neck.

    Many times the animal is hung upside down to ensure better drainage.

    Judaic teachings say that man must not eat blood. Muhammad adopted the same ideology and hence that is why we need to drain the blood from the animal while its heart is still pumping.

    To suffer the loss of blood over a prolonged period of time dying slowly is the ultimate cruelty to another creature.

    The UK Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) says that the method by which Kosher and Halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and it should be banned immediately. According to FAWC it can take up to two minutes for cattle to bleed to death, thus amounting to animal abuse.

    Compassion in World Farming also supported the recommendation saying "We believe that the law must be changed to require all animals to be stunned before slaughter."

    Animals are sentient beings just like we humans. They feel pain, have emotions and intelligence.

    I believe that to keep them in factory farms and to kill them inhumanely is blot of humanity.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #22 - March 24, 2009, 01:45 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on March 24, 2009, 12:45 PM
    With Halaal and Kosher the animal must be alive for the blood to drain out.

    So the neck is slit, ensuring the animal stays alive long enough with a pumping heart to ensure the blood drains out through the cut in the neck.

    Many times the animal is hung upside down to ensure better drainage.

    Judaic teachings say that man must not eat blood. Muhammad adopted the same ideology and hence that is why we need to drain the blood from the animal while its heart is still pumping.

    To suffer the loss of blood over a prolonged period of time dying slowly is the ultimate cruelty to another creature.

    The UK Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) says that the method by which Kosher and Halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and it should be banned immediately. According to FAWC it can take up to two minutes for cattle to bleed to death, thus amounting to animal abuse.

    Compassion in World Farming also supported the recommendation saying "We believe that the law must be changed to require all animals to be stunned before slaughter."

    Animals are sentient beings just like we humans. They feel pain, have emotions and intelligence.

    I believe that to keep them in factory farms and to kill them inhumanely is blot of humanity.


    Thanks for the "heads up".  I was under the impression that their is little pain, as the brain is no longer functions soon after the cut?
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  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #23 - March 24, 2009, 01:47 PM
    OK I agree it is more cruel than a stun gun. but I think that after the throat is slit the brain is deprived of oxygen and shuts down pretty quickly. Of course I'm not an expert and if it wasn't for the religious aspect, I think they should ban it (If it was practical for every farmer to get access to affordable instant livestock killing technology). I'm quite surprised how many of the ex-Muslims here have never seen it happen. I was invited to witness it and even encouraged to videotape the event. A few people in Bangladesh told me they hated it because it was cruel. It was pretty gross to watch and difficult to eat after watching it. I was petting and feeding the poor guy the night before. If anyone feels that actually watching a halal sacrifice is of any benefit, then I have a video clip of it. This video is not for the faint of heart. Do not watch it if you are squeemish at all. Just note that what happened in this video occured thousands of times that day and happens every day. I'm not sadistic, I'm not one of those guys who likes to watch videos on the internet of people getting killed. I just thought that day that as a meat-eater I owed it to the cow to be faced with what he actually goes through.

    Again, Warning
    Most of you should not follow this link.

    http://eidsacrifice.blogspot.com/

    B :'( B
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #24 - March 24, 2009, 02:19 PM
    OK, I changed my mind.
    They should be forced to stun the animals first. The technology is readily available and the process can remain halal.

    "The captive bolt gun is suitable for this stunning when using the mushroom shaped head of the bolt (Fig. 55). The mushroom gun is an improvement on the plain bolt, as this bolt does not penetrate the brain and cause death. This should be more acceptable to the religious authorities, and its use would encourage more humane slaughter amongst Muslims in developing countries, thereby improving animal welfare.
    Fortunately, many Muslim authorities accept some forms of pre-slaughter stunning. Many Muslim authorities permit electric stunning of cattle, sheep and poultry, whose meat is destined for Muslim communities, because the animals subjected to this stunning method would recover if no bleeding was carried out. Electric stunning is also the method of choice in meat exporting countries where stunning of slaughter animals is required by law, for export to Muslim countries. Similarly, Muslim minorities in countries with stringent animal welfare regulations are allowed to use Halal slaughter methods, but in combination with electrical stunning.

    Any kind of prestunning for livestock to be slaughtered according to the Jewish Kosher method has not yet been accepted."

    http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6909e/x6909e09.htm

    If the Jews can't accept it then tough shit. Go do it in another country. The poor Aztecs were forced to stop their religious sacrifices. We shouldn't have to compromise our humanity to suit the sensitivities (or lack of sensitivities) of non-progressives.

    BRoll EyesB
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #25 - March 24, 2009, 02:30 PM
    Good to see you doing some research there Bob and allowing your position to evolve.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #26 - March 24, 2009, 02:48 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on March 23, 2009, 08:43 PM
    We have Canine teeth for good reason.


    Our canine teeth are vestigial and are hardly longer than our molars. This contrary to true carnivores whose canines are long and sharp like lions, dogs, cats.

    Human's canines are short and dull and similar to herbivores such as cows, deer, horses, rabbits, etc.

    Could you kill an animal using your canines? That is what canines are used for. Going in for the jugular. Man's teeth is not designed for that, that is why we have to use tools to kill animals.

    Our bodies are not equiped like carnivorous animals are. Neither do we have sharp tough claws to hold down and firmly grip out prey.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #27 - March 24, 2009, 02:54 PM
    I have been hearing this debate since the days when I identified myself as being a Muslim and I was skeptical about it then and I am skeptical about it now? Do people really care about the welfare of animals or is it another way of trying to demonise Muslims? When European countries banned ritual slaughter in the early parts of the 20th century, it was not done out of any concern for the animal but to discriminate against Jews!

    OK. An animal is technically halal if it has been stunned but what about kosher? Jews do not consider a stunned animal to be kosher, so making unstunned meat illegal would still be forcing Jews not to eat meat.

    An animal loses conciousness after about a minute and a half of having its throat cut and, I know this sounds like a rather brutal statement, but I would rather an animal be in pain for a minute and a half than alienate 2 million Muslims and Jews in the UK.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #28 - March 24, 2009, 02:57 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 24, 2009, 11:21 AM
    I watched a sheep being slaughtered for Qurbani once...worst thing I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot...

    I've also visited a slaughter house, still disgusting but I know where I'd rather be.

    They should either make it obligatory to stun the animal first and comply with the UK method or they ban the practice.


    Seeing a sheep killed for food is even worse than seeing a member of your own species killed?
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Halal, Kosher & other Sacrificial Meat
     Reply #29 - March 24, 2009, 03:00 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on March 24, 2009, 02:54 PM
    I have been hearing this debate since the days when I identified myself as being a Muslim and I was skeptical about it then and I am skeptical about it now? Do people really care about the welfare of animals or is it another way of trying to demonise Muslims? When European countries banned ritual slaughter in the early parts of the 20th century, it was not done out of any concern for the animal but to discriminate against Jews!

    OK. An animal is technically halal if it has been stunned but what about kosher? Jews do not consider a stunned animal to be kosher, so making unstunned meat illegal would still be forcing Jews not to eat meat.

    An animal loses conciousness after about a minute and a half of having its throat cut and, I know this sounds like a rather brutal statement, but I would rather an animal be in pain for a minute and a half than alienate 2 million Muslims and Jews in the UK.


    I can see why you'd be skeptical but that doesn't mean anyone who advocates such a position is doing so for the purpose of anti-Muslim hate.


    Even as a Muslim I avoided halal meat from 2005 (when I first saw a lamb being slaughtered in the Islamic way)- I had been to slaughterhouses, but this was a horrific sight, and it was done in the Islamic way. That's why I oppose it, I do care about animal rights, not exactly to the standard of PETA but issues like this do bother me.

    I'm sure others feel the same way.



    !Also, in response to your last comment, who said anything about me seeing humans being killed? If your talking about all these beheading videos I watched back in the day, those were distorted videos and not real life situations. I haven't seen anyone die in real life so I don't understand your question.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
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