Peace to everybody!
My name is Marleya,and I am new here.Been reading a little around,and you guys discuss many interesting things.
I am not an ex muslim,I am muslim,born with a norwegian mother and an african father.
You use a lot of hadith,when you critize Islam,but you should know there is many of us,who have thrown hadith to the fish,and only use the Quran as guiding.
Koran never mention sexual relations with pre-pubescent wives.The verse you are talking about is sura 65,vers 4
where the rules of divorce is layd out.The verse is long,so I will only wright the words you have in mind Aksel
"and for those women who dont started their period,the iddah(waiting time for remarrying)is also three months for them"
Here God speak about married womans that dont have their period yet.So,if you read history of us humans,you will find that before in times,we women got our period much later than today.Google it,and you will find it.
The body has to carry 22% fat on the body,before women will get their menses.Today,because of junk food and others,girls from their are nine can get their menses.
This was not something that happen before.Women in could get 18-20 years before they got menses.Because of their diet.But this girls were grown ups,in maturity,and therefor they could be married.
Grown up womens was married,before their menses,thats really how simple it is.
As-Salam Alaiki Marleya.
Sorry for the late reply, I just recently saw your post.
Well, I'm happy to disregard hadith for the course of this discussion, but there is very strong evidence that the Koran and hadith are intertwined with the latter explaining the former. There are many passages of the Koran which are inexicable without recourse to hadith, but perhaps that's a topic for another day.
Regarding 65:4, I am glad you agree that the only females this verse can be referring to are ones who have not
yet reached menarche. I agree also that girls reached puberty later in pre-Islamic Arabia than in modern times:
-Tanner (1955) Growth at adolescence. Blackwell Scientific Publications, Oxford
Now, the verse
could refer to an 18-20 yr old female who has not reached menarche yet, as their diet was very low in lipids as you say.
However in the actual Koranic description: "those who have not yet menstruated" (
اللائي لم يحضن ) there is no such age specification. It could refer to any female past the age of nine as per hadith (
Kitab an-Nikah), and if you deny hadith there is no minimum age stipulated at all.
Secondly, verse 65:4 does indeed give permission for
sexual intercourse with prepubescent females.
For this we must refer to verse 33:49 which says that when Muslim men marry women "then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them" (
ثم طلقتموهن من قبل ان تمسوهن ) there is no
Iddah to be reckoned.
Since 65:4 is describing the
Iddah for a pre-pubescent wife, it is taken for granted that her husband must have already consumated the marriage, otherwise the question of
Iddah would not even arise.
Lastly, girls are
Baligh by age nine according to Islamic fiqh. If you disregard the hadith you must have an alternative explanation for the age at which
Baligh is attained based on Koran alone. Hope to hear back from you.
Kind regards
-Aksel
Topic: Welcome to Marleya