Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


What music are you listen...
by zeca
Yesterday at 08:08 PM

Gaza assault
Yesterday at 07:56 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Yesterday at 05:07 PM

New Britain
November 20, 2024, 05:41 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
November 19, 2024, 06:36 AM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 04, 2024, 03:51 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Welcome to Marleya

 (Read 22283 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 3 4« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #90 - March 30, 2009, 06:00 AM

    "That isn't what the graph is supposed to show, read it carefully."

    What a queer response.  Just tell me.

    How can we tell the difference between harmless Muslims, and dangerous Muslims?
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #91 - March 30, 2009, 06:16 AM

    I have a link,that speak about abrogations and substitute,maybe if you read that one,you can come back to me,what you think?
    http://www.mostmerciful.com/abrogation-and-substitution.htm   
    Thanks


    Well marleya, that link unfortunately doesn't speak about the problem of the peaceful verses like "There is no compulsion..." being abrogated. Read through that link & see...

    But since it does speak of substitution, we have a problem on our hands it seems...

    If there is no abrogation, we have two sorts of verses claiming contradictory stuff...
    One says "There is no compulsion in religion..." while later verses speak of murder & mayhem. So believers can freely choose to be violent or non violent & with such a bewildering choice, many can & do choose violence.

    If there is abrogation, then the peaceful verses have been cancelled out, & only the verses advocating violence remain.  mysmilie_977

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #92 - March 30, 2009, 07:23 AM

    "That isn't what the graph is supposed to show, read it carefully."

    What a queer response.  Just tell me.

    The graph shows the opposite, i.e. a negative gradient or decreasing age of menarche with time.

    Therefore in pre-industrial civilizations girls reached menarche age 15-17.

    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #93 - March 30, 2009, 07:29 AM

    Lastly, sound judgement has nothing to do with sexual maturity, a little girl should not be given away in marriage to an adult man even if her mental age is that of an adult.

    Good point Aksel

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #94 - March 30, 2009, 07:34 AM

    Sorry Aksel, I must have had a Homer Simpson moment.

    How can we tell the difference between harmless Muslims, and dangerous Muslims?
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #95 - March 30, 2009, 07:42 AM

    Sorry Aksel, I must have had a Homer Simpson moment.

    It's cool, I can sometimes be abrupt to the point of rudeness.

    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #96 - March 30, 2009, 09:57 AM

    Well marleya since this thread deals with a variety of issues & also the age of consent according to Islam, I have considered it prudent to start a new thread regarding the issue of abrogation.

    Here it is: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4817.msg122921#msg122921

    You might discuss the issue on that thread, if you want.  Smiley
    Again I repeat that I'm very glad you joined us & I hope our discussions are mutually beneficial.
     Thank you sign

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #97 - March 30, 2009, 12:07 PM

    Peace A-Ghazali.

    I belive truly,that people can belive in any religion they want to,and that is not against Gods will.


    How then do you explain verse that call for the killing or taxing of non-Muslims? How you explain verses that says you should be friends with unbelievers even if they are father or brother or mother? How do you explain laws where the blood money for Muslims are greater than that for non-Muslims?


    Quote
    In many suras God say oppression is worse than murder.


    I do not agree that oppression is worse than murder. Any many Islamic countries non-Muslims are oppressed. They have to pay the jizya tax and be brought down low. Slaves are oppressed. Do you think its better these people be murdered than oppressed? Oppression is bad, yes, but murder, the taking of lives is much worse.

    Maybe you are not aware of the circumstances under which Muhammad revealed this verse.

    In order to justify his raiding of Meccan trade caravans and the inevitable killing of those en route with them, he revealed the ayat claiming that since the Muslims were oppressed by the Meccans when in Mecca then its okay to kill them because oppression is worse than murder.

    So because they did not accept Islam, they were against his attitude to liberal worship of a pantheon of gods or some ridiculed him, he announced that it was fine to kill any Meccan because some supposedly oppressed him.

    Do you really think that killing people is better than having them reject your cult?

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #98 - March 30, 2009, 01:39 PM

    2.225 "God does not hold you responsible for the mere utterance of oaths.He holds you responsible for your innermost intention"


    Here Muhammad is talking about oath taken in marriage and what your intentions are with your wife. Read the verse along with those before and after and you will see it has nothing to do with accepting other religions which is what we are talking about.

    Quote
    2.257 you have qouted,but not all the verse.

    "God is the whaali(protector or guardian)of those who belive.He brings them out from darkness to light.But as for those who disbelive,their Auliya(supporters,helpers) are Taghut(false deities,or false leaders),they bring them out from light into darkness.Those are the dwellers of the Fire,and they will abide therein forever"

    I can not see that this verse,say every person that is not a muslim,will go to hell.He warns all of us,to go from light to darkness,and to follow bad leaders.Again our innermost intention.


    Let us look at the entire verse. It says nothing about following bad leaders. It has nothing to do with our innermost intentions. It is plain and simply telling those who do not believe in Allah that they are in darkness and will be going to hell.

    257 Allah is the Protecting Guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.

    Let's break it up:

    Allah is the Protecting Guardian of those who believe.

    Allah protects those who believe. It does not say believe in what as yet so let's continue.

    He bringeth them out of darkness into light.

    Allah brings people out of darkness into light. He does not say that Jesus or Rama, or Zeus brings them out from darkness. Only him.

    As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities.
    If you disbelieve.... Disbelieve in what? What was Muhammad preaching? Believe in Allah or believe in any God you want? Muhammad preached belief only in Allah.

    When Muhammad conquered Mecca did he leave the Gods that resided there and told the people to worship any god you want but just include Allah? Or did he destroy all the gods that were there and said "Truth has come and falsehood has departed"? Any believe other than in Islam is falsehood. And Muhammad?s example is to destroy those false gods. And that is exactly what Arab armies did when they conquered many nations.

    ... their patrons (gods) are false deities.  So if you disbelieve in Allah your gods are false. If all gods other than Allah are false then how can you claim it?s OK to worship other (false) gods?

    They bring them out of light into darkness.
    They, the false gods, take people from light into darkness. What a claim to make. People who worship a god other than Allah goes into darkness. Therefore it is basically saying only Islam is true. All other religions are false and lead to darkness.

    Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.
    Such are, (those who do not believe), will abide, live, in hell fire. Its quite simple.

    Looking at the entire verse it simply says, if you do not believe in what Muhammad taught, you will be in darkness with your false gods and will go to hell.

    If you still do not see how this verse says disbelievers will be going to hell, maybe other verses will help:

    2:39 But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.

    3:10 (On that Day) neither the riches nor the progeny of those who disbelieve will aught avail them with Allah. They will be fuel for Fire.

    3:12 Say unto those who disbelieve: Ye shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell, an evil resting-place.

    3:116 The riches and the progeny of those who disbelieve will not avail them aught against Allah; and such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.

    These are just a small fraction of verses that tells of the unbelievers fate, hell-fire.

    And of course the verse I quoted before (3:85) stating that no religion other than Islam will be acceptable and those that choose another will be a loser in the hereafter. I wonder where losers in the hereafter go? Oh must be hell. Well heaven is for winners, isn?t it?


    Quote
    You ask me some hard question,A.Ghazali.I wish I could answer everything with selfsurance,but I dont know if I can.


    They are not intended to be hard. They are intended to stimulate a rational understanding of Islam.

    Quote
    And of course I know how Islam came to Africa.I have studied the slave trade,started by arab muslim,many hundred years before the white men,started their slavetrade.

    The arab slave trade,I call it that,was a little different than the white trade.The arab took two females for every one male.The white was opposite,they took two males for every one female.


    Why do you think that Arabs before Muhammad never invaded Africa or any other other part of the world for that matter? Because they did not have an ideology that encouraged the spreading of a message at any cost. They did not have an example like Muhammad, who raided, invaded, enslaved en masse, forced religion onto others or formalised dhimmitude.

    The fact that you maintain the tenents of Islam show that you approve of the Arab's invasions and conquests with the deaths of hundreds of millions of people all under the banner of 'Allahu Akbar'

    Quote
    As an african,if I should hate anybody laying us in chains,there would be no one left to love.


    Not every nation enslaved people. The Chinese, Japanese, Burmese, Indian, Aborigines, Native Americans, etc, etc, etc never enslaved your people. So there are still many to love. And even those who did you cannot blame or not love the generations today who had nothing to do with it.

    Anyway it is not about not loving the people who did it, it's about not submitting to the ideology that enabled it to be perpetrated onto so many.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #99 - April 01, 2009, 02:38 PM

    Welcome to you also Balthier!  Would you like to start another thread so we can get to know you too?


    I might do that one day, when I'm not being my lazy self.  Smiley
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #100 - July 30, 2009, 07:55 PM

    West African Islam is very different to orthodox Saudi Islam and always has been. Even back in the 16th century Arabian trader and ambassadors were horrified to see African women walking around topless and considering themselves to be perfectly good Muslims.



    That happened all around Islam during the rain of the Caliphates there were topless women sold in Baghdad, only slave women were shown nude to fetch a high price, you know the saying: "sex, sells" so it was only confined to the slaves one owned free Muslim women did not walk around nude. With respect to Africa some Muslim women yes did walk around topless but this was due to the African culture, you still have African tribes which walk around nude this pre-dates Islam. And is not only visible in African tribes in the Amazon also live topless. 
  • Re: Welcome to Marleya
     Reply #101 - July 30, 2009, 09:59 PM

    Thank you, Tut, for telling me what I already knew.  Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Previous page 1 2 3 4« Previous thread | Next thread »