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Theme Changer

 Topic: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only

 (Read 75989 times)
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  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #300 - April 11, 2009, 01:03 PM

    Quote from: Skynightblaze
    You will know muhhamad was a perfect criminal. What an all round criminal!!

    1) a Murderer
    2) Gay
    3)Thief
    4)Rapist
    5)Paedophile
    6) Terrorist
    7)Misogynist

    Am I misreading this, or did you just claim that homosexuality is a crime?


    Homosexuality is an abnormality for sure. Its not normal . You may or may not call it a crime but certainly its definitely not a sign of someone who calls himself USWA HASANA. 
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #301 - April 11, 2009, 01:05 PM

    O Jesus, don't start a debate on homophobia here because it really will make BMZ happy. We need some sort of unity when it comes to dealing with Muhammadens. That's what this forum lacks.




    Eh?  This isn't a cult, its a forum where we're all entitled to our own opinions.  I want to know what evidence there is that Mohammed was ever gay, I never heard that accusation before.  And even if he was,  that hardly belongs on the same list as murderer, rapist etc.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #302 - April 11, 2009, 01:06 PM

    How was Mohammed gay, and how would that label belong on a list with murderer, rapist, terrorist, etc?


    I have read it somewhere that Muhhamad used to lift his shirt for  a man to kiss him . Let me find a source for you.
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #303 - April 11, 2009, 01:12 PM

    Quote

    The first anecdote discussed by the priest revolved around a hadith that, while some ulema say is ?weak,? is, nonetheless according to Botros, present in 44 Islamic books?including some highly respected collections, such as Sunan Bayhaqi and Al Halabi.

    According to this hadith, a man named Zahir, who used to declare that ?the prophet loves me,? said that one day Muhammad crept unawares behind him and put him in a bear-hug. Zahir, alarmed, yelled, ?Get off me!? After turning his head and discovering that it was Muhammad, he stopped struggling and proceeded to ?push his back into the prophet?s chest?prayers and blessings upon him."

    Another curious hadith contained in Sunan Bayhaqi and which traces to Sunan Abu Dawud (one of the six canonical hadith collections), has Muhammad lifting up his shirt for a man who proceeded to kiss his entire torso, ?from his bellybutton to his armpits.?



    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024363.php

    Well   I read it here .
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #304 - April 11, 2009, 01:17 PM

    Quote
    Homosexuality is an abnormality for sure. Its not normal . You may or may not call it a crime but certainly its definitely not a sign of someone who calls himself USWA HASANA.


    I don't see why homosexuality is either abnormal, a crime, or a sign that someone is not a prophet.  I'd far rather a prophet that slept with consenting adults of his own sex, than a prophet that slept with 9 year olds of the opposite sex.

    Quote
    Well   I read it here .


    You really think hugging a man or being kissed by one belongs on the same list as murder, rape, terrorism, etc?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #305 - April 11, 2009, 01:20 PM

    O Jesus, don't start a debate on homophobia here because it really will make BMZ happy. We need some sort of unity when it comes to dealing with Muhammadens. That's what this forum lacks.




    Eh?  This isn't a cult, its a forum where we're all entitled to our own opinions.  I want to know what evidence there is that Mohammed was ever gay, I never heard that accusation before.  And even if he was,  that hardly belongs on the same list as murderer, rapist etc.


    Ok, well, for a start he promised young boy servents (look up man-boy greek love) in heaven who look like shinning pearls. This is fairly homosexual in nature.

    He also once exposed his thigh to a man.

    There are other indicators here and there

    Quran man servants:

    052.021: And those who believe and whose families follow them in Faith,- to them shall We join their families: Nor shall We deprive them (of the fruit) of aught of their works: (Yet) is each individual in pledge for his deed ....23: And We shall bestow on them, of fruit and meat, anything they shall desire. ...0 024: Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them,young male servants (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded. ........025: They will advance to each other, engaging in mutual enquiry.


    056.012: In Gardens of Bliss., ....015: (They will be) on Thrones encrusted (with gold and precious stones).. ...016: Reclining on them, facing each other., ..017: Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness),

    Aa?ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, narrates: "The Prophet was sitting with his thigh exposed when Abu Bakr sought, and received, permission to enter. The same thing happened with `Umar. However, when `Uthman sought permission to enter, the Prophet covered himself with his clothes. When they left, I said, 'O Messenger of Allah, you allowed Abu Bakr and `Umar to enter while your thigh was exposed. But when `Uthman asked permission to enter, you covered yourself with your clothes.' He said, 'O 'Aishah, shouldn?t I be shy of a man even the angels, by Allah, feel bashful in his presence'?" (Related by Ahmad and Al-Bukhari.)


    I don't think he was quite gay though, just a bit of a fruitcake.

    Here's Muhammad cross dressing:
     

    From the Sahih Collection of al-Bukhari, Hadith Number 2442

    Chapter 52. Book of Setting Free, VII: The one who gave a gift to his friend aiming for a time when he was with one of his wives rather than another.  

     

    It is related from 'A'isha that the wives of the messenger of Allah fell into two parties. One party contained 'A'isha, Hafsa, Safiyya and Sawda, and the other party contained Umm Salama and the rest of the wives of the messenger of Allah. The Muslims knew of the love of the messenger of Allah for 'A'isha, so when any of them had a gift which he wanted to give to the messenger of Allah he would delay it until the messenger of Allah was in 'A'isha's house. Then the person with the gift would send it to the messenger of Allah while he was in 'A'isha's house. The party of Umm Salama spoke about it and said to her, "Tell the messenger of Allah to speak to the people and say, 'Whoever wants to give a gift to the messenger of Allah should give it to him in the house of whichever wife he is.'" Umm Salama spoke to him about what they had said, but he did not say anything. They asked her and she said, "He did not say anything to me." They said to her, "Speak to him." She said she spoke to him when he went around to her as well, but he did not say anything to her. They asked her and she said, ?He did not say anything to me.? They said to her, ?Speak to him until he speaks to you.? He went around to her and she spoke to him. He said to her, ?Do not injure me regarding 'A'isha. The revelation does not come to me when I am in the GARMENT of any woman except 'A'isha.? She said, "I repent to Allah from injuring you, Messenger of Allah.? Then they called Fatima, the daughter of the messenger of Allah, and sent her to the messenger of Allah to say, ?Your wives ask you by Allah for fairness regarding the daughter of Abu Bakr.? She spoke to him and he said, ?O my daughter, do you not love what I love?? She said, ?Yes indeed.? She returned to them and informed them. They said, ?Go back to him,? but she refused to go back. They sent Zaynab bint Jahsh and she went to him and spoke harshly, saying. ?Your wives ask you by Allah for fairness regarding the daughter of ibn Abi Quhafa.? She raised her voice until she turned to 'A'isha, who was sitting down, and abused her until the messenger of Allah looked at 'A'isha to see if she would speak. ?A'isha spoke to answer back Zaynab until she had silenced her. She said, ?The prophet looked at 'A'isha and said, ?She is indeed the daughter of Abu Bakr.??

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #306 - April 11, 2009, 01:27 PM

    Quote
    Ok, well, for a start he promised young boy servents (look up man-boy greek love) in heaven who look like shinning pearls. This is fairly homosexual in nature.


    That would be more of an indication that Mohammed knew there were homosexual tendencies among his followers. 

    The rest of this evidence is a bit weak too.  The most puzzling thing though, is that SNB thinks this would be a damaging charge against Mohammed.  If the charge was hypocrisy, that Mohammed said homosexuality was a sin despite being secretly gay himself, he would have a point.  But SNB seems to think that being gay is in itself some kind of a fatal flaw.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #307 - April 11, 2009, 01:33 PM

    Quote from: Cheetah
    I don't see why homosexuality is either abnormal, a crime, or a sign that someone is not a prophet.  I'd far rather a prophet that slept with consenting adults of his own sex, than a prophet that slept with 9 year olds of the opposite sex.


    Ofcourse paedophilia is a serious crime but to a muslim homosexuality is also a heinous  crime. BMZ cannot argue with me here that homosexuality cannot be a crime because it would mean he is disobeying quran. So homosexuality for a muslim does fit into that list. Again it depends on everyone's perspective. I live in India and here people would simply laugh at it. I personally do not see a crime in it to fit into that list  but I would refrain myself from doing it as I dont like it and find it abnormal behaviour.

    Quote from: Cheetah

    You really think hugging a man or being kissed by one belongs on the same list as murder, rape, terrorism, etc?


    If you ask me, my answer would be  no as long any homo doesnt force me  but for a muslim its for sure a crime that belongs to that list even though its between 2 mutually consenting individuals.  So the list is for him to see ethics of muhhamad which he considers as sins.
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #308 - April 11, 2009, 01:45 PM

    O Jesus, don't start a debate on homophobia here because it really will make BMZ happy. We need some sort of unity when it comes to dealing with Muhammadens. That's what this forum lacks.

    you shouldnt worry about speaking the truth, even if it is in support of a Muslim, Christian or a phantom butt worshipper, as long as you can back it up.

    No unity required, only unity we need is in eradicating BS from this forum.  Once that happens, then everything will fall into place naturally, and in doing others might come along for the ride too.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #309 - April 11, 2009, 02:20 PM

    Quote from: skynightblaze
    Homosexuality is an abnormality for sure. Its not normal.

    You'll have to prove it, then. There is nothing "abnormal" about homosexuality.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #310 - April 11, 2009, 02:37 PM

    If the charge was hypocrisy, that Mohammed said homosexuality was a sin despite being secretly gay himself, he would have a point. 


    I agree with Cheetah, if Mo indeed indulged in homosexual acts, than he was especially hypocritical & wicked to condemn Lut's people & the sin of homosexuality. I personally am fine with gays, homosexuality is as abnormal as being left handed, & Mo disliked both, like many people did & still do. Of course, left handed people don't really suffer anything compared to gays.

    Islam does not have a bad history like that of Christianity at all. Even the Jews appreciate and are grateful for their life under Islam. The pogroms and inquisition were only carried out in every Christian country.


    You might want to check out these atrocities on Zoroastrians by Muslims BMZ. Zoroastrians are fire worshippers, maybe another abomination to you? As it happens, Zoroastrians are extremely well educated & successful, & certainly don't stone, lash & bomb!  Roll Eyes
    http://www.vohuman.org/Article/Islamic%20era%20histroy%20of%20Zoroastrians%20of%20Iran.htm
     This isn't the only atrocity, check out the destruction of Nalanda University, a great centre of Buddhist learning in India, by Muslims.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University


    This is only a tiny sample,   search for Muslim atrocities on other faiths, you'll realise why so many Christians', Jews, Hindus & Zoroastrians criticise Islam on FFI.


    Did you not read that he went berserk in the Temple and threw money, chairs and tables belonging to others. The biblical Jesus could not control his anger, while Muhammad could and did.


    How do you claim anything about Muhammad's character? The Quran has extremely scanty information, I know from Quran 033.053 that Allah asked guests not to linger at Muhammad's house & not to speak to his wives without curtains between them. Since you find the Trinity absurd, don't you find it absurd that Almighty Allah would be concerned about the length of time guests spend at Mo's house?  Wink

    The place to know about Muhammad are the Hadiths- Bukhari, Muslim & the Sira. You prefer to think that any hadith you dislike is false, but the hadiths show Muhammad having a grotesque character.

    Almighty Allah, who so hated Trinity & idolatry, & asked people to follow Mo as the perfect human, couldn't He make sure that such hadiths don't malign Muhammad'[s character? Huh?

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #311 - April 11, 2009, 04:34 PM

    O Jesus, don't start a debate on homophobia here because it really will make BMZ happy. We need some sort of unity when it comes to dealing with Muhammadens. That's what this forum lacks.

    you shouldnt worry about speaking the truth, even if it is in support of a Muslim, Christian or a phantom butt worshipper, as long as you can back it up.

    No unity required, only unity we need is in eradicating BS from this forum.  Once that happens, then everything will fall into place naturally, and in doing others might come along for the ride too.


    Amen to that.

    Thanks, Islame. That was a timely comment.   Afro

    Good night

    Baig
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #312 - April 11, 2009, 04:42 PM

    O Jesus, don't start a debate on homophobia here because it really will make BMZ happy. We need some sort of unity when it comes to dealing with Muhammadens. That's what this forum lacks.


    Were you worried that I would start talking about the Homos, Paul with the boy Timothy and Barnabas with the boy Mark?  Cheesy
    Or another who leaned on the biblical Jesus' chest?

    Unity on forums is not healthy. If you are all united, you will be just nodding to each other on each and every ridiculous point.
    What is the point then?

    I am the lone ranger here. Leave some good folks alone.

    BMZ
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #313 - April 11, 2009, 04:49 PM

    O Jesus, don't start a debate on homophobia here because it really will make BMZ happy. We need some sort of unity when it comes to dealing with Muhammadens. That's what this forum lacks.


    Were you worried that I would start talking about the Homos, Paul with the boy Timothy and Barnabas with the boy Mark?  Cheesy
    Or another who leaned on the biblical Jesus' chest?

    Unity on forums is not healthy. If you are all united, you will be just nodding to each other on each and every ridiculous point.
    What is the point then?

    I am the lone ranger here. Leave some good folks alone.

    BMZ


    Yes I really would care about what you said about some Greek fairytale. It doesn't matter to me.

    Sorry BMZ, I disagree with your viewpoint, as long as you unite with every Muslim against every Kaffir, I will see to do the same.

    Good day sir.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #314 - April 11, 2009, 06:35 PM

    I love homosexuals (men): all the more women for me!

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #315 - April 11, 2009, 07:59 PM

    Quote from: BMZ
    I am the lone ranger here. Leave some good folks alone.

    Don't get too high. You are a Holocaust denier, and this is worse than being a homophobe in my book. Nobody on this forum will agree with you, or defend you, just because your opponent has made one stupid comment.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • BMZphobia at FFI
     Reply #316 - April 12, 2009, 03:06 AM

    Hello, FinallyFree

    I do visit FFI once in a while just to read the junk and stuff but I do not want to join and write at FFI cesspool. Could you please tell the dumb Moderator at FFI to put a note and debunk the poster who goes by the nick 'debunker' that Dr.Zahid is not me. It is really getting hilarious when I see FFI goons bitching.

    The link: http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1706

    The megalomaniancs at FFI have lost their brains.  Cheesy

    And thanks for your note at FFI, which I quote:

    Quote
    Re: I AM BETWEEN BOTH MUSLIMS AND NONMUSLIMS

    Postby FinallyFree ? Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:32 am
    I don't think it's Zulbrain (BMZ).

    BMZ swore on the CoEM site that he isn't coming here anymore and that he doesn't want to. He's also in the Middle of a "debate".

    Then again, he did sign up on April fools day, and he does like to troll.

    If you are genuine I apologise-we have a problem with certain members reincarnating themselves.


    How could I sign up when I don't have a nick there? What was the nick which you saw and concluded it was BMZ? Never assume because you only make an ass of yourself.

    I have already declared that I am not going to write at all at Ali Sina's fucked up site Faithfreedom Internationl (FFI), which is full of goons and gibberish.

    Can you please write a note otherwise the buggers would ban somebody who is not me. If you are genuine, apologise to me!

    Cheers
    BMZ

  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #317 - April 13, 2009, 02:29 AM

    @ charleslemartel

    If I were to debate with a Christian friend about contradictions in the Bible, I would bring up
    a clear-cut contradiction. For example, I will present the following as a clear-cut and solid contradiction:

    Quote
    Mark 8:29"But what about you?" he asked, "Who do you say I am?"
    Peter answered, "You are the Christ."

    Luke 9:20"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
          Peter answered, "The Christ of God."

    Matthew 16:20Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."


    This is a fine example to show a clear-cut contradiction in a scripture. This is just a note for your reading pleasure.

    BMZ 











  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #318 - April 13, 2009, 09:05 AM

    There's no real contradiction in those. They are all saying the same thing but with fractionally different wording, which you'd expect in books written well after the event by different authors. If that's the best BMZ can do then the Christians will be feeling safe. Cheesy

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #319 - April 13, 2009, 09:20 AM

    To: osmanthus

    Quote
    This is disingenuous. That verse is traditionally known, among traditional Islamic scholars and going back for centuries, as "The Verse of the Sword". To claim that it is only "Islamophobic polemicists" who call it "The Killer Verse" is dishonest. It has always been regarded as a verse about killing.


    The word Sword can be found in other Holy Scriptures. The man of Love mentioned it himself and wanted his disciples to buy but they offered lame excuses. There is no such word in the entire Qur'aan.  Wink

    BMZ

    Your reply is completely irrelevant to the central point. I don't care what is found in other religions. We were talking about Islam. Forget your obsession with trying to distract attention by ridiculing Christianity and stick to the subject.

    You claimed that it was "Islamophobic polemicists" who regarded it as a "killer verse". I pointed out that said verse is traditionally known among Islamic scholars as "The Verse of the Sword". This is not it's formal name in the Quran but what scholars have called it for the purposes of discussion among themselves. In other words, it is well known and accepted as being a "killer verse". Whether or not the Arabic word for sword is in the Quran is not an issue. You have, once again, proceeded on your merry way while apparently completely missing the point. I'm not sure whether this is deliberate or not, but it is certainly glaringly obvious.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #320 - April 13, 2009, 09:20 AM

    It just shows BMZ, anyone can attempt to justify, provided they are being deceitful to themselves and in denial.  If this is true, convinving others who were not born into it, is where you will always get stuck.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #321 - April 13, 2009, 09:22 AM

    By the way, do you write at FFI? If you do, let me know and I will read your intelligent comments, if any.

    I used to post there, but I've stopped doing that when all my favourite posters flocked here. Now while I enjoy watching your arguments collapse one by one in that debate of yours, I really look forward to debating the Holocaust with you. You were going to provide proof, remember?


    Sure! I will debate the alleged "Holocaust" with you some time in the future. No problem there.

    Cheers
    BMZ

    Good. Do it. You backed out of the last thread on the topic without presenting anything of substance.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #322 - April 13, 2009, 09:22 AM

    There's no real contradiction in those. They are all saying the same thing but with fractionally different wording, which you'd expect in books written well after the event by different authors. If that's the best BMZ can do then the Christians will be feeling safe. Cheesy


    You can never sit quiet. lol! That example was strictly for charleslemartel's reading pleasure.

    I am trying to say, "Agreed." to Islame but for some reason, I am unable to respond to his post by clicking the 'quote' button.

    BMZ
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #323 - April 13, 2009, 09:24 AM

    It just shows BMZ, anyone can attempt to justify, provided they are being deceitful to themselves and in denial.  If this is true, convinving others who were not born into it, is where you will always get stuck.


    Hello, Islame

    Could not reply to your earlier post as the quote button was not responding. Agreed.

    Baig
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #324 - April 13, 2009, 09:24 AM

    Quote from: Skynightblaze
    You will know muhhamad was a perfect criminal. What an all round criminal!!

    1) a Murderer
    2) Gay
    3)Thief
    4)Rapist
    5)Paedophile
    6) Terrorist
    7)Misogynist

    Am I misreading this, or did you just claim that homosexuality is a crime?


    Homosexuality is an abnormality for sure. Its not normal . You may or may not call it a crime but certainly its definitely not a sign of someone who calls himself USWA HASANA. 

    Homosexuality is perfectly normal for some people. So is bisexuality for that matter. I fail to see why it would have any bearing on the prophetic status or otherwise of any person in history. In fact given that prophets are supposed to urge us to higher standards and give that homosexuals have historically been treated like shit you could make a perfectly good case for a prophet being gay just to teach the fuckwits a good lesson.  Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #325 - April 13, 2009, 09:25 AM

    thats because I changed my mind after agreeing with Os post, and so deleted it..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #326 - April 13, 2009, 09:37 AM

    Good. Do it. You backed out of the last thread on the topic without presenting anything of substance.

    BMZ put me on his ignore list, which makes me really, really very sad.

     signmuahaha

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #327 - April 13, 2009, 11:02 AM

    Good. Do it. You backed out of the last thread on the topic without presenting anything of substance.

    BMZ put me on his ignore list, which makes me really, really very sad.

     signmuahaha


     

    I feel bad too. Okay! No more on my ignore list.

    BMZ
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #328 - April 13, 2009, 11:03 AM

    thats because I changed my mind after agreeing with Os post, and so deleted it..


    Thanks, Islame.

    Baig
  • Re: A Question to Ex-Muslims Only
     Reply #329 - April 13, 2009, 11:07 AM

    Good. Do it. You backed out of the last thread on the topic without presenting anything of substance.

    BMZ put me on his ignore list, which makes me really, really very sad.

     signmuahaha


     

    I feel bad too. Okay! No more on my ignore list.

    BMZ


    How about me?

    Pleeeze

    You can't be unfair to me but fair to Zaephon...

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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