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 Topic: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an

 (Read 20121 times)
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  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #60 - April 13, 2009, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 13, 2009, 11:03 AM

    Muhammad hit his favorite child bride Ayesha on the chest which hurt her.


    Who were the other child brides? Any list?  Cheesy

    BMZ
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #61 - April 13, 2009, 11:13 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 13, 2009, 11:09 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 13, 2009, 11:03 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 13, 2009, 10:58 AM
    We have no record from the man-made Hadith that Prophet, his Sahaba (companions), Caliphs and followers used to beat their wives. Cheesy May be the Hadith collectors did not want to be called wife-beaters.

    BMZ




    Muhammad hit his favorite child bride Ayesha on the chest which hurt her.Here is the Hadith:

    Sahih Muslim
    Book 004, Number 2127..."He hit me on the chest which hurt me."

    Its a Hadith from Sahih Muslim, an authentic collection! Wink


    Cute and ever ready with hadith material.

     Cheesy

    That is another BS Hadith, Rashna.

    BMZ

    ps: The smiley is to show how much did I enjoy that. It is not directed at you.  Smiley


    The Quran says wives have to obey their husbands, men can talk, separate & beat(or leave) disobedient wives, why can't wives be right & the husband be wrong?

    Why does Allah endorse obedient wives but not obedient husbands?

    The Quran says this, numerous Sahih hadiths support wife beating, & Muhammad hit little Ayesha on the chest, hurting her.

    What more proof does one need? Huh?
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #62 - April 13, 2009, 11:17 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 13, 2009, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 13, 2009, 11:03 AM

    Muhammad hit his favorite child bride Ayesha on the chest which hurt her.


    Who were the other child brides? Any list?  Cheesy

    BMZ


    This would be another, had Muhammad lived...  Wink

    You'd not like it, & will dismiss these unpleasant stories, I guess.  Roll Eyes

    In the Sirat Rasul Muhammad himself, wanted to marry a crawling baby girl a few years before his death. This happened after he married Aisha. The following citation is from the book of Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishak, the most authentic biographer of Muhammad (pbuh) Most other biographies are based on this monumental work by Ibn Ishak/Ibn Hisham
    (Suhayli, ii.79: In the riwaya of Yunus I.I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummul-Fadl) when she was baby crawling before him and said, "If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her." But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. Abdu?l-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba.(ref.10, p. 311)

    His war booties like Safiyyah were all teens & very beautiful... Phwoar

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #63 - April 13, 2009, 11:18 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 13, 2009, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 13, 2009, 11:03 AM

    Muhammad hit his favorite child bride Ayesha on the chest which hurt her.


    Who were the other child brides? Any list?  Cheesy

    BMZ

    Isn't one enough? I find it odd that you seem to think Mohammed having sex with a nine year old girl is amusing.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #64 - April 14, 2009, 02:13 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 13, 2009, 11:18 AM
    Isn't one enough? I find it odd that you seem to think Mohammed having sex with a nine year old girl is amusing.


    He says he finds them amusing as he doesn't believe these hadiths contain anything truthful!

    IMO, had I been a Muslim & disbelieved these hadiths, I'd be outraged that people had put in these false stories to make my Prophet, the supposed insaan i kamil" look so bad...
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #65 - April 14, 2009, 03:25 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 13, 2009, 11:18 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 13, 2009, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 13, 2009, 11:03 AM

    Muhammad hit his favorite child bride Ayesha on the chest which hurt her.


    Who were the other child brides? Any list?  Cheesy

    BMZ

    Isn't one enough? I find it odd that you seem to think Mohammed having sex with a nine year old girl is amusing.


    What makes you think that he had sex with a nine year old? How sure are you that the girl was nine?

    BMZ
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #66 - April 14, 2009, 03:38 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 03:25 AM
    What makes you think that he had sex with a nine year old? How sure are you that the girl was nine?


    The hadiths, including the Sahih Bukhari ones. When you disagree with widely accepted wishdom, be it Holocaust denial or Ayesha's age at marriage, the burden of proof falls on you to show why all these reputed & accepted wishdom is wrong!  Smiley
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #67 - April 14, 2009, 10:18 AM
    Quote from: marleya on April 13, 2009, 10:36 AM
    Being honest to the text Awais? Which texts? The man made laws written down several hundred years after the Prophet died, are those the texts you are talking about?

    The verse you are talking about...

    You miss the point marleya. I say you reject the hadith just because you do not agree with it. This is not the objective way to go about it. Is the chain Saheeh, Hasan? Or Da'eef, weak, forged? Is it mutawaatir, or a7ad? Roll Eyes

    My point from quoting from Mike Knight about crossing out the verse about beating is not about the verse. It's about rejecting from Islam what you disagree with, acknowledging that "yes, it's in there, it says that" and not fancily interpreting it, but to reject it.

    "Then do you believe in part of the book and reject the rest?" 2:85

    I reserve the right to do so. Tongue


    I'll get back to you on your fanciful interpretation of "Idriboohunna" later, inshallah Wink.

    Salam.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #68 - April 14, 2009, 10:23 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 14, 2009, 03:38 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 03:25 AM
    What makes you think that he had sex with a nine year old? How sure are you that the girl was nine?


    The hadiths, including the Sahih Bukhari ones. When you disagree with widely accepted wishdom, be it Holocaust denial or Ayesha's age at marriage, the burden of proof falls on you to show why all these reputed & accepted wishdom is wrong!  Smiley


    The word Holocaust is an insult to millions of others who were also killed by the Germans.

    Is there any hadith on her age and consummation of marriage, from Ayesha's father Abu Bakr, Prophet himself, Umar, Ali, Othman, Sahabas, other ladies of the household and her close relatives beside the one from unknown Ibn Hisham?

    You are the expert here in copying and pasting ahaadith. Please quote some from her father, Abu Bakr and her husband, the Prophet on the subject matter. I will appreciate that.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #69 - April 14, 2009, 12:33 PM
    I highly recommend you ask your brother, your uncle, your father , your cousin, your best friends, about how many times you bang your wife per week or when was the first time u banged her. It should not surprise u if they knew very little of that aspect of your life bmz.

    The koran does not have enough material in it to form a religion. This is why muslim scholars are desperately clinging to the hadith, even though hadith is so damn problematic for them.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #70 - April 14, 2009, 12:46 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 10:23 AM

    The word Holocaust is an insult to millions of others who were also killed by the Germans.




    Only if used in the context 'Jewish Holocaust' which it isn't always.

    Holocaust means being burnt and has no reference to the Jews that were killed in Nazi Germany. It does not deny that other groups were also killed.
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #71 - April 14, 2009, 01:33 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 10:23 AM
    You are the expert here in copying and pasting ahaadith. Please quote some from her father, Abu Bakr and her husband, the Prophet on the subject matter. I will appreciate that.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ



    Awww!  thnkyu BMZ!

    I copy paste hadiths, making sure they're from the authentic collections, & give citations so that anyone can  google them & check for themselves, if not links, while you narrate stories of persecution, without referencing to any source whatsoever, whereas those stories come from hadiths,the same hadiths which you claim are false & refuse to accept!  Wink

    You can't have your cake & eat it too, BMZ!  fest42
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #72 - April 14, 2009, 03:03 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 14, 2009, 01:33 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 10:23 AM
    You are the expert here in copying and pasting ahaadith. Please quote some from her father, Abu Bakr and her husband, the Prophet on the subject matter. I will appreciate that.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ



    Awww!  thnkyu BMZ!

    I copy paste hadiths, making sure they're from the authentic collections, & give citations so that anyone can  google them & check for themselves, if not links, while you narrate stories of persecution, without referencing to any source whatsoever, whereas those stories come from hadiths,the same hadiths which you claim are false & refuse to accept!  Wink

    You can't have your cake & eat it too, BMZ!  fest42



    So, when are we going to have hadith quoted on the subject by the Prophet and Abu Bakr? Have you found some? Cheesy Normally you provide a hadith within a few minutes. Please quote as soon as possible.

    I want to eat your hadith cake.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #73 - April 14, 2009, 03:11 PM
    Peace everyone!


    In that verse 4.34, use the word Nushooz,and it is translated with disobedient,but in the verse 4.128,say:"If a wife fear Nushooz,from her husband,there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement beetween themselves,and such settlement is the best"

    In this verse where the same words is used for the husband,the word is translated as desertion.The same word Nushooz,is twice translated,when it comes to women,it is translated as disobedient,but in the vers for the husband,it is translated as desertion.

    Something is not right.The old and dead ones that translated this Quran,did not feel that Nushooz,goes for both wife and husband,so they just translated the word twice,disobedient in one verse,and desertion in one vers.

    Because they couldnt belive that what goes for women,goes for men.And that God is not talking about disobedient women,in that verse 4.34,
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #74 - April 14, 2009, 03:18 PM
    Quote from: marleya on April 14, 2009, 03:11 PM
    Peace everyone!
    Because they couldnt belive that what goes for women,goes for men.And that God is not talking about disobedient women,in that verse 4.34,


    marleya here are the verses of 4.34:

    004.034
    YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
     
    PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

    SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

    All three verses say that men are in charge of women because Allah has made one to excel the other, why has Allah made men superior to women marleya? Why are men in charge of women?

    Aren't men & women equal? How does man excel women, as this verse says?  Huh?

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #75 - April 14, 2009, 04:14 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 10:23 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 14, 2009, 03:38 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 03:25 AM
    What makes you think that he had sex with a nine year old? How sure are you that the girl was nine?


    The hadiths, including the Sahih Bukhari ones. When you disagree with widely accepted wishdom, be it Holocaust denial or Ayesha's age at marriage, the burden of proof falls on you to show why all these reputed & accepted wishdom is wrong!  Smiley


    The word Holocaust is an insult to millions of others who were also killed by the Germans.

    Is there any hadith on her age and consummation of marriage, from Ayesha's father Abu Bakr, Prophet himself, Umar, Ali, Othman, Sahabas, other ladies of the household and her close relatives beside the one from unknown Ibn Hisham?

    You are the expert here in copying and pasting ahaadith. Please quote some from her father, Abu Bakr and her husband, the Prophet on the subject matter. I will appreciate that.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ



    Bmz I have asked this question to you before atleast answer me now. Why would any devout muslim mention that Muhhamad deflowered Aisha at the age of 9 so as to defame him? I challenge you or any devout muslim to write here a single statement abusing or defaming muhhamad. Can you or any muslim do  that?
    If not what makes you wonder that bukhari lied about it ?
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #76 - April 14, 2009, 04:25 PM
    @BMZ


    HERE IS SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD GIVING US THE NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO REPORTED OTHER THAN IBN HISHAM

    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Try more than eleven aut-horities among the Tabi`in that reported it directly from `A'isha, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha.



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `Urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the>event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. /*


    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven Imams of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been reported



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    */Nor by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years./*



    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan ibn `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya in Palestine both report it.

    Nor was this hadith reported only by `Urwa but also by `Abd al-Malik ibn `Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf, Yahya ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu `Ubayda (`Amir ibn `Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud) and others of the Tabi`i Imams directly from `A'isha.

    This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from `A'isha by over eleven authorities among the Tabi`in, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas`ud nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha, such as Qatada!

  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #77 - April 14, 2009, 04:30 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 03:03 PM
    So, when are we going to have hadith quoted on the subject by the Prophet and Abu Bakr? Have you found some? Cheesy Normally you provide a hadith within a few minutes. Please quote as soon as possible.

    I want to eat your hadith cake.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ


    Hi BMZ!

    If you are going to claim hadiths are false & unacceptable, then the next time you want to tell us about the persecutions the early Muslims suffered, or how Jesus could never control his temper which Muhammad always could & did (what a joke! rofl), I'm going to flood you with absurd & unpleasant hadiths!  Wink

    Everytime you mention these stuff without citations, I'll feed you enough hadith cakes, like its your  hppybday!  

    Cheers
    Rashna
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #78 - April 14, 2009, 11:26 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 13, 2009, 10:09 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 13, 2009, 09:37 AM
    If the scholars had unanimously agreed upon for centuries, then all the Muslim countries would have been using the death sentence by stoning. Have we seen all of them doing that? The answer is a firm no.


    There is a near unanimous agreement amongst all Islamic scholars for centuries:

    The four major Sunni Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) and the Twelver Shi'a Jafari madhab agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed.[1] They differ on the punishment for a female apostate - some schools calling for death and others for imprisonment.

    As for all countries doing it, when you encounter something you dislike, you claim, "Its not Islamic"-eg the girl's flogging.  Wink

    but if you like something, whether it comes from Islamic sources or not, it becomes Islamic? Roll Eyes



    Sounds like cafeteria islam.
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #79 - April 14, 2009, 11:29 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 13, 2009, 10:54 AM
    Quote from: marleya on April 13, 2009, 10:36 AM
    Quote from: awais on April 13, 2009, 08:33 AM

    Being honest to the text Awais?Which texts.The man maid laws written down several hundred years after the Prophet died,is that the text you are talking about?

    The verse you are talking about,the word that the mullahs have translated into meaning beat,darabe,is used several times in the Quran,but does not mean to beat.Why did the mullahs say that in this verse,the word means to hit,but not in the others vers.
    God never gave the husband any right to beat a "disobedient" wife,he should leave her.

    sura14.24"See you not how Allah sets forth(darabe) a parable?A godly word as a goodly tree,whose roots is firmly fixed,and its branches to the sky" Here is the word darabe used,and here it means set forth.

    2.273:"Charity is for the poor,they cannot go forth(darabe)in the land....

    God does not use the word as to beat,no,but to go forth.

    It is in the hand of the translater,and they have put their bad side in,when it comes to women and their rights.There is no sensible reason,for why this word,is translated into beat,in that vers agbout husbands and wifes.And it goes against common sence.




    But Allah does endorse woman's subservient status to her husband, doesn't he marleya?

    Allah in that verse says that men are the protectors of women because Allah has made one excel the other, & good women should be obedient, & men can talk, separate or beat(maybe as you say leave) their disobedient wives alone.

    Why should women be obedient to their husbands marleya? Why did Allah say that man excels his wife?

    Can't the wife be right & the husband wrong?  Huh?

    In the western world it seems to be. Wink

  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #80 - April 14, 2009, 11:45 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 14, 2009, 04:30 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 03:03 PM
    So, when are we going to have hadith quoted on the subject by the Prophet and Abu Bakr? Have you found some? Cheesy Normally you provide a hadith within a few minutes. Please quote as soon as possible.

    I want to eat your hadith cake.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ


    Hi BMZ!

    If you are going to claim hadiths are false & unacceptable, then the next time you want to tell us about the persecutions the early Muslims suffered, or how Jesus could never control his temper which Muhammad always could & did (what a joke! rofl), I'm going to flood you with absurd & unpleasant hadiths!  Wink

    Everytime you mention these stuff without citations, I'll feed you enough hadith cakes, like its your  hppybday!  

    Cheers
    Rashna


    Thank you for the laughter.

    Now, have you managed to dig out any hadith from the Prophet, Abu Bakr and the Companions about Ayesha's age? 
    I am waiting. I thought you would be able to quote some.  Cheesy Aren't there any?

    BMZ
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #81 - April 15, 2009, 02:23 AM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on April 14, 2009, 04:14 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 10:23 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 14, 2009, 03:38 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 03:25 AM
    What makes you think that he had sex with a nine year old? How sure are you that the girl was nine?


    The hadiths, including the Sahih Bukhari ones. When you disagree with widely accepted wishdom, be it Holocaust denial or Ayesha's age at marriage, the burden of proof falls on you to show why all these reputed & accepted wishdom is wrong!  Smiley


    The word Holocaust is an insult to millions of others who were also killed by the Germans.

    Is there any hadith on her age and consummation of marriage, from Ayesha's father Abu Bakr, Prophet himself, Umar, Ali, Othman, Sahabas, other ladies of the household and her close relatives beside the one from unknown Ibn Hisham?

    You are the expert here in copying and pasting ahaadith. Please quote some from her father, Abu Bakr and her husband, the Prophet on the subject matter. I will appreciate that.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ



    Bmz I have asked this question to you before atleast answer me now. Why would any devout muslim mention that Muhhamad deflowered Aisha at the age of 9 so as to defame him? I challenge you or any devout muslim to write here a single statement abusing or defaming muhhamad. Can you or any muslim do  that?
    If not what makes you wonder that bukhari lied about it ?



    Which hadith talks about deflowering at the age of 9? I have already asked Rashna to produce some ahaadith from the Prophet, her father and Companions.

    Do you have any hadith to show the word deflowering at 9? Where did you get that from?

    What is your source? Please produce that and btw, who wrote the above post for you? 

    Bukhari and many others were hadith collectors, just like stamp collectors. Bukhari's collection came after more than 200 years, if ye but knew!.  Cheesy


    BMZ
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #82 - April 15, 2009, 02:33 AM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on April 14, 2009, 04:25 PM
    @BMZ


    HERE IS SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD GIVING US THE NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO REPORTED OTHER THAN IBN HISHAM

    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Try more than eleven aut-horities among the Tabi`in that reported it directly from `A'isha, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha.



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `Urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the>event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. /*


    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven Imams of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been reported



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    */Nor by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years./*



    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan ibn `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya in Palestine both report it.

    Nor was this hadith reported only by `Urwa but also by `Abd al-Malik ibn `Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf, Yahya ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu `Ubayda (`Amir ibn `Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud) and others of the Tabi`i Imams directly from `A'isha.

    This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from `A'isha by over eleven authorities among the Tabi`in, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas`ud nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha, such as Qatada!




    Who is this Tom, SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD?

    Again you failed to comprehend as usual.

    I have asked Rashna to produce ahaadith which show that Prophet said  this, her father Abu Bakr said that, her mother said this, Ali said that, all the wives said so, many Sahabas said this or that. Surely, there must be many. Right?

    Therefore, I want you guys to show me ahaadith on this subject from all the family members and friends. There should be ahaadith from them. I want Rashna to produce any such ahaadith direct from the family and friends of the Prophet.
    She will be working hard on this and I hope she will produce something solid.

    BMZ
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #83 - April 15, 2009, 03:19 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 15, 2009, 02:23 AM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on April 14, 2009, 04:14 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 10:23 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 14, 2009, 03:38 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 14, 2009, 03:25 AM
    What makes you think that he had sex with a nine year old? How sure are you that the girl was nine?


    The hadiths, including the Sahih Bukhari ones. When you disagree with widely accepted wishdom, be it Holocaust denial or Ayesha's age at marriage, the burden of proof falls on you to show why all these reputed & accepted wishdom is wrong!  Smiley


    The word Holocaust is an insult to millions of others who were also killed by the Germans.

    Is there any hadith on her age and consummation of marriage, from Ayesha's father Abu Bakr, Prophet himself, Umar, Ali, Othman, Sahabas, other ladies of the household and her close relatives beside the one from unknown Ibn Hisham?

    You are the expert here in copying and pasting ahaadith. Please quote some from her father, Abu Bakr and her husband, the Prophet on the subject matter. I will appreciate that.  Wink

    Cheers
    BMZ



    Bmz I have asked this question to you before atleast answer me now. Why would any devout muslim mention that Muhhamad deflowered Aisha at the age of 9 so as to defame him? I challenge you or any devout muslim to write here a single statement abusing or defaming muhhamad. Can you or any muslim do  that?
    If not what makes you wonder that bukhari lied about it ?



    Which hadith talks about deflowering at the age of 9? I have already asked Rashna to produce some ahaadith from the Prophet, her father and Companions.

    Do you have any hadith to show the word deflowering at 9? Where did you get that from?

    What is your source? Please produce that and btw, who wrote the above post for you? 

    Bukhari and many others were hadith collectors, just like stamp collectors. Bukhari's collection came after more than 200 years, if ye but knew!.  Cheesy


    BMZ


    Says a person born after 1400 years!! You fool who the hell are you to say that they were stamp collectors? What is your qualification? You treat yourself as If you are the  only authority of islam next to your fake prophet . Keep in mind you are only a professional  dumb troll who knows nothing and understands nothing.

    There are hadiths narrated by Aisha herself . It is surprising that you believe in the companions or Abu Bakhr reporting the age of Aisha but deny the hadiths reported by herself. Cheesy  Btw you still didnt answer who wrote the post for you? Should I make guess? MR X aka DESERVES TO DIE from whyISlam forum .

    Btw there are many hadiths that report age of aisha during her consummation.Do you want to play a game of arabic here and try deceive people by saying that so and so phrase doesnt mean consummation.
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #84 - April 15, 2009, 03:59 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 15, 2009, 02:33 AM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on April 14, 2009, 04:25 PM
    @BMZ


    HERE IS SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD GIVING US THE NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO REPORTED OTHER THAN IBN HISHAM

    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Try more than eleven aut-horities among the Tabi`in that reported it directly from `A'isha, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha.



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `Urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the>event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. /*


    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven Imams of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been reported



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    */Nor by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years./*



    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan ibn `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya in Palestine both report it.

    Nor was this hadith reported only by `Urwa but also by `Abd al-Malik ibn `Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf, Yahya ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu `Ubayda (`Amir ibn `Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud) and others of the Tabi`i Imams directly from `A'isha.

    This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from `A'isha by over eleven authorities among the Tabi`in, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas`ud nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha, such as Qatada!




    Who is this Tom, SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD?

    Again you failed to comprehend as usual.

    I have asked Rashna to produce ahaadith which show that Prophet said  this, her father Abu Bakr said that, her mother said this, Ali said that, all the wives said so, many Sahabas said this or that. Surely, there must be many. Right?

    Therefore, I want you guys to show me ahaadith on this subject from all the family members and friends. There should be ahaadith from them. I want Rashna to produce any such ahaadith direct from the family and friends of the Prophet.
    She will be working hard on this and I hope she will produce something solid.

    BMZ


    I wonder what your definition of comprehension is . Just because you feel that your logic is right it doesnt mean it is right. WE have already seen that. There is no need to comprehend your foolishness. Why do you require hadiths from sources other than Aisha when we have AIsha herself narrating her own age? Gibril Haddad has also shown that there are sources other than IBn Hisham whom you conveniently accuse of having a bad memory reporting the same . 
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #85 - April 15, 2009, 04:54 AM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on April 15, 2009, 03:59 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 15, 2009, 02:33 AM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on April 14, 2009, 04:25 PM
    @BMZ


    HERE IS SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD GIVING US THE NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO REPORTED OTHER THAN IBN HISHAM

    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Try more than eleven aut-horities among the Tabi`in that reported it directly from `A'isha, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha.



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `Urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the>event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. /*


    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven Imams of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been reported



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    */Nor by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years./*



    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan ibn `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya in Palestine both report it.

    Nor was this hadith reported only by `Urwa but also by `Abd al-Malik ibn `Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf, Yahya ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu `Ubayda (`Amir ibn `Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud) and others of the Tabi`i Imams directly from `A'isha.

    This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from `A'isha by over eleven authorities among the Tabi`in, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas`ud nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha, such as Qatada!




    Who is this Tom, SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD?

    Again you failed to comprehend as usual.

    I have asked Rashna to produce ahaadith which show that Prophet said  this, her father Abu Bakr said that, her mother said this, Ali said that, all the wives said so, many Sahabas said this or that. Surely, there must be many. Right?

    Therefore, I want you guys to show me ahaadith on this subject from all the family members and friends. There should be ahaadith from them. I want Rashna to produce any such ahaadith direct from the family and friends of the Prophet.
    She will be working hard on this and I hope she will produce something solid.

    BMZ


    I wonder what your definition of comprehension is . Just because you feel that your logic is right it doesnt mean it is right. WE have already seen that. There is no need to comprehend your foolishness. Why do you require hadiths from sources other than Aisha when we have AIsha herself narrating her own age? Gibril Haddad has also shown that there are sources other than IBn Hisham whom you conveniently accuse of having a bad memory reporting the same . 



    By comprehension, we mean that you do not understand what is written and always write gibberish. You must think before you write. Try to sue some common sense before you write.

    Therefore, you must go back and read what I have asked Rashna, our in-house Hadith production expert. If you can, provide me with some ahaadith from the Prophet himself, or her father or her nearest relatives. Can you?

    BMZ



     
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #86 - April 15, 2009, 05:00 AM
    Quote from: BMZ
    By comprehension, we mean that you do not understand what is written and always write gibberish. You must think before you write. Try to sue some common sense before you write.

    Therefore, you must go back and read what I have asked Rashna, our in-house Hadith production expert. If you can, provide me with some ahaadith from the Prophet himself, or her father or her nearest relatives. Can you?


    AS expected you dont understand what is being asked to you. I repeat Why do you need the hadiths from her relatives when we have the hadiths from Aisha herself?If they are not sufficient that means you are trying to tell us that Aisha lied about her age so now give me one good reason why you believe in her relatives but at the same time  disbelieve in her?.do you realize that you are shooting yourself in foot as usual? IF you are going to believe in age of Aisha as 9 if Rashna manages to bring hadiths from them it means you acknowledge that they indeed spoke the truth and are reliable and in that case you should have no problem in accepting other hadiths from them.This would mean disaster and horrible problems for you.


    Btw Please dont tell us what common sense is . We have already seen that in the debate. You should be the last one to say anything about common sense.
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #87 - April 15, 2009, 11:27 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 15, 2009, 02:33 AM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on April 14, 2009, 04:25 PM
    @BMZ


    HERE IS SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD GIVING US THE NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO REPORTED OTHER THAN IBN HISHAM

    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Try more than eleven aut-horities among the Tabi`in that reported it directly from `A'isha, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha.



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `Urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the>event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. /*


    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven Imams of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been reported



    Quote from: MUSLIM CLAIM
    */Nor by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years./*



    Quote from: SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD
    Not so. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan ibn `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya in Palestine both report it.

    Nor was this hadith reported only by `Urwa but also by `Abd al-Malik ibn `Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf, Yahya ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu `Ubayda (`Amir ibn `Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud) and others of the Tabi`i Imams directly from `A'isha.

    This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from `A'isha by over eleven authorities among the Tabi`in, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas`ud nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha, such as Qatada!




    Who is this Tom, SHAYKH GIBRIL HADDAD?

    Again you failed to comprehend as usual.

    I have asked Rashna to produce ahaadith which show that Prophet said  this, her father Abu Bakr said that, her mother said this, Ali said that, all the wives said so, many Sahabas said this or that. Surely, there must be many. Right?

    Therefore, I want you guys to show me ahaadith on this subject from all the family members and friends. There should be ahaadith from them. I want Rashna to produce any such ahaadith direct from the family and friends of the Prophet.
    She will be working hard on this and I hope she will produce something solid.

    BMZ


    Why should I have to provide evidence from the Prophet or Ayesha's Daddy? I was about to provide a link to Shaykh Haddad, who clearly shows how the hadith comes from Ayesha herself, which skynightblaze did.

    I know that rape is near impossible to prove in some Muslim countries, because of the requirement of four male witnesses, seems pedophilia is also near impossible to prove in Islam-including the Prophet's pedophilia, as rather than accepting the victim Ayesha's testimony, you want the testimony of her abuser Muhammad, or her Daddy who willingly handed her over in "marriage" to her abuser. Roll Eyes
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #88 - April 15, 2009, 11:47 AM
    Quote from: Rashna
    Why should I have to provide evidence from the Prophet or Ayesha's Daddy? I was about to provide a link to Shaykh Haddad, who clearly shows how the hadith comes from Ayesha herself, which skynightblaze did.

    I know that rape is near impossible to prove in some Muslim countries, because of the requirement of four male witnesses, seems pedophilia is also near impossible to prove in Islam-including the Prophet's pedophilia, as rather than accepting the victim Ayesha's testimony, you want the testimony of her abuser Muhammad, or her Daddy who willingly handed her over in "marriage" to her abuser. Roll Eyes


    He actually doesnt understand the problem with his claims. He is asking you to bring testimony of Muhhamad or his companions as a proof. Doesnt that mean he believes in their testimony? If that is the case then why does he reject the other hadith narrated by them? He should be believing in the hadiths in that case.

    His next flaw is why ask for her daddy and others when the person whom we are talking about is herself narrating her age? Who knows Aisha's age better than her?
    There is no need to take into consideration the testimony of others.His demand is unacceptable and illogical.
  • Re: Time for Muslims to stop reading the Qur'an
     Reply #89 - April 15, 2009, 12:16 PM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on April 15, 2009, 11:47 AM
    His next flaw is why ask for her daddy and others when the person whom we are talking about is herself narrating her age? Who knows Aisha's age better than her?
    There is no need to take into consideration the testimony of others.

    I think what he is getting at is he is a Muslim, so he wont accept Aisha's individual female testimony.
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