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 Topic: The other side of Pakistan

 (Read 6853 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The other side of Pakistan
     OP - April 14, 2009, 09:05 PM

    I know Pakistan has been getting a lot of bad press recently, what with shooting at sri lankans, flogging innocent girls in Swat and bombings, I wanted to demonstrate the other side of Pakistan, just to show that Pakistanis are not all religious, tribal nutters!

    This is Begum Nawazish Ali. One of the most popular TV personalities and talk show hosts in Pakistan who has actors and actresses, political leaders and even Mullahs on her show! Did I mention she is also a gay drag queen!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn7Kke8YK8Q

    (By the way, I only used this video because this was the only one I could find where he was speaking English).

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #1 - April 14, 2009, 09:21 PM

    This is just an illusion, Pak isn't really like this. You have showed the minority thinking from the rich and famous. What interests me is the ordinary pakistani with no food and medical care or electricity to watch a gay Mr talking from his behind (no pun intended).

    The last stand of frej
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #2 - April 14, 2009, 09:33 PM

    This is just an illusion, Pak isn't really like this. You have showed the minority thinking from the rich and famous. What interests me is the ordinary pakistani with no food and medical care or electricity to watch a gay Mr talking from his behind (no pun intended).


    And that's the bottom line, coz RubyJi said so.  cool2
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #3 - April 14, 2009, 10:03 PM

    This is just an illusion, Pak isn't really like this. You have showed the minority thinking from the rich and famous. What interests me is the ordinary pakistani with no food and medical care or electricity to watch a gay Mr talking from his behind (no pun intended).


    I wasn't saying Pak is really like this. I was just saying that Pakistan isn't all bombings and being horrible to women and I used an extreme example to demonstrate that. I would say that the majority of people in Pakistan (well, the Punjab at least) are not as conservative as the Taliban and not as liberal as Ali Saleem, but somewhere in between.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #4 - April 14, 2009, 10:50 PM

    Seeing what is happening in the northern tribal areas of Pakistan horrifies me.  I've been to the Punjab and Sindh so I know that at least in those parts of the country it isn't like what you see in the media but I do worry for my friends who live there, especially the women!

    IMO, if the Pakistani Taliban tried to take over anywhere south of Peshawar they would come face to face with a whole bunch of pissed off Punjabis.  Wink

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #5 - April 14, 2009, 10:56 PM

    Seeing what is happening in the northern tribal areas of Pakistan horrifies me.  I've been to the Punjab and Sindh so I know that at least in those parts of the country it isn't like what you see in the media but I do worry for my friends who live there, especially the women!

    IMO, if the Pakistani Taliban tried to take over anywhere south of Peshawar they would come face to face with a whole bunch of pissed off Punjabis.  Wink


    The reason the taliban have got control in the NWFP is because it is so difficult for outsiders to control geographically. Call me an optimist, but outside of the NWFP, I don't think Taliban would have very much support or influence. In the general election last year, the Pakistani public could have voted the Islamist parties in but instead voted for the corrupt, but secular People's Party and Muslim League. I think that says a lot about the Pakistani people.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #6 - April 15, 2009, 01:06 AM

    So this homo crap was the only thin you could find to show the "other" side of Pakistan, fuck that rather then that assault on my senses I would much rather prefer the Taliban.

    I have nothing against homosexuals by the way I am bisexual myself.
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #7 - April 15, 2009, 01:10 AM

    Let the Taliban come to Punjab our women will kick their asses alone! bunch of illiterate pathans. 
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #8 - April 15, 2009, 01:12 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFmdHSfHdwk&feature=related

    Aristocratic Punjabis, standard!
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #9 - April 15, 2009, 01:29 PM



    Is Peshawar actually considered as part of Punjab? Its way off into the West isnt it?
    And how comes he's a Prince? Is he lieing? I thought the aristocratic families were all gone and had lost their titles. My grandad fought under the Maharaja of Nabha and I think they're one of the only ones still around. But yeah, is this guy a real Prince?
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #10 - April 15, 2009, 01:49 PM

    Let the Taliban come to Punjab our women will kick their asses alone! bunch of illiterate pathans. 


    LOL!  Cheesy

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #11 - April 15, 2009, 03:43 PM



    Is Peshawar actually considered as part of Punjab? Its way off into the West isnt it?
    And how comes he's a Prince? Is he lieing? I thought the aristocratic families were all gone and had lost their titles. My grandad fought under the Maharaja of Nabha and I think they're one of the only ones still around. But yeah, is this guy a real Prince?


    Peshawar is not Punjab, Peshawar is in the North West Frontier Province, whose culture is more close to an Afghan culture than a Punjabi culture.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #12 - April 15, 2009, 03:45 PM

    So this homo crap was the only thin you could find to show the "other" side of Pakistan, fuck that rather then that assault on my senses I would much rather prefer the Taliban.

    I have nothing against homosexuals by the way I am bisexual myself.


    It was not the only thing I could find to show the other side of Pakistan. It was an extreme example. Pakistanis are by no means free loving hippies who love homosexuals and transvestites, but I think this says something about Pakistan that a drag queen is one of the most popular tv personalities.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #13 - April 15, 2009, 04:55 PM

    Pakistan was created in the same way as Israel,from a British colony-but unlike Israel which was created as a Jewish homeland, Pakistan was created as a Muslim homeland, on Muslim demands, the creation of Pakistan led to far more deaths & dislocations than the creation of Israel, but non Muslim Pakistanis & Bangladeshis forced to leave didn't carry on perpetual attempts to get back their ancestral homelands, now just like Israel wants more lands, Pakistanis want Kashmir. Millions of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants come to settle in India, while thousands of Pakistanis become untreaceable in India after the expiry of their visas.  Roll Eyes

    However, unlike Jewish Israel, where the turbulence comes largely from its Muslim neighbours, in Pakistan, its a turbulence generated by fellow members of the Ummah, & the country is wholly consumed by Islamist tensions & unequipped to deal with those, tensions at least equal to, if not worse than what Jewish Israel faces.

    Karma's a bitch!  grin12

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #14 - April 15, 2009, 06:49 PM



    Is Peshawar actually considered as part of Punjab? Its way off into the West isnt it?
    And how comes he's a Prince? Is he lieing? I thought the aristocratic families were all gone and had lost their titles. My grandad fought under the Maharaja of Nabha and I think they're one of the only ones still around. But yeah, is this guy a real Prince?


    Peshawar is not Punjab, Peshawar is in the North West Frontier Province, whose culture is more close to an Afghan culture than a Punjabi culture.


    So that dude cant be a Punjabi because it says Peshawar in the video.
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #15 - April 15, 2009, 10:05 PM

    Pakistan was created in the same way as Israel,from a British colony-but unlike Israel which was created as a Jewish homeland, Pakistan was created as a Muslim homeland, on Muslim demands, the creation of Pakistan led to far more deaths & dislocations than the creation of Israel, but non Muslim Pakistanis & Bangladeshis forced to leave didn't carry on perpetual attempts to get back their ancestral homelands, now just like Israel wants more lands, Pakistanis want Kashmir. Millions of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants come to settle in India, while thousands of Pakistanis become untreaceable in India after the expiry of their visas.  Roll Eyes

    However, unlike Jewish Israel, where the turbulence comes largely from its Muslim neighbours, in Pakistan, its a turbulence generated by fellow members of the Ummah, & the country is wholly consumed by Islamist tensions & unequipped to deal with those, tensions at least equal to, if not worse than what Jewish Israel faces.

    Karma's a bitch!  grin12


    You really can't compare the creation of the idea behind the creation of Israel with the partition of India. The partition of India was more similar to the partition of Ireland, in that a Muslim homeland was created in parts of India where Muslims had a majority, like in Ireland, the 6 majority protestant counties of the North remained a part of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland separate. Israel on the other hand was created as a homeland for Jews from all around the world, mostly from Europe, and 80% of Arabs fled the country. The states in which Pakistan was founded were majority Muslim and the reasoning behind it was for the majority Muslim states to be independent of India.

    Personally I don't agree that partition of India should have happened and a lot of damage has been caused as a result of it. Millions of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs were displaced and killed during partition and there have been tensions between India and Pakistan since. However, the intentions of Jinnah and the people who wanted Pakistan were honourable. Jinnah was originally for a united India but he later felt that in a united India, Muslims would be marginalised and needed a homeland of their own. Jinnah was not a religious man, was a secularist and some even claim he was an atheist or an agnostic, and his vision of Pakistan was a secular state. Unfortunately, partition has proven to be a disaster.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #16 - April 15, 2009, 10:06 PM

    So that dude cant be a Punjabi because it says Peshawar in the video.


    People from Peshawar are absolutely definitely not Punjabi.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #17 - April 15, 2009, 11:31 PM

    that guy is from Punjab, he is a Punjabi
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #18 - April 15, 2009, 11:35 PM



    I heart Michael Palin.  mysmilie_977

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #19 - April 16, 2009, 05:50 AM

    You really can't compare the creation of the idea behind the creation of Israel with the partition of India. The partition of India was more similar to the partition of Ireland, in that a Muslim homeland was created in parts of India where Muslims had a majority, like in Ireland, the 6 majority protestant counties of the North remained a part of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland separate. Israel on the other hand was created as a homeland for Jews from all around the world, mostly from Europe, and 80% of Arabs fled the country. The states in which Pakistan was founded were majority Muslim and the reasoning behind it was for the majority Muslim states to be independent of India.

    Personally I don't agree that partition of India should have happened and a lot of damage has been caused as a result of it. Millions of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs were displaced and killed during partition and there have been tensions between India and Pakistan since. However, the intentions of Jinnah and the people who wanted Pakistan were honourable. Jinnah was originally for a united India but he later felt that in a united India, Muslims would be marginalised and needed a homeland of their own. Jinnah was not a religious man, was a secularist and some even claim he was an atheist or an agnostic, and his vision of Pakistan was a secular state. Unfortunately, partition has proven to be a disaster.


    Just like Jinnah was a secularist, the founders of Israel were almost all secular agnostic\atheoist Jews-Theodore Hertzl etc. Golda Meir when asked if she believed in God replied, "I believe in the Jewish people & the Jewish people believe in God."

    Israel, unlike Pakistan still remains significantly secular, with not only transvestites on T.V., but even gay tolerance, gays from the rest of the mid East seek asylum there.

    Pakistan was created precisely because they felt a need for a Muslim state for Indian Muslims, just like there was a demand for a Jewish state-it was supposed to be a homeland for all Muslims from other parts of the sub continent to settle, but non Muslims were ruthlessly kicked out, in far larger numbers than from Israel.At least as many Muslims came to settle in Pak & Bangladesh as Jews came to Israel, Muslims from even the Southernmost states of India went to settle in Pak.

    You complain about "Islamophobia" & Geert Wilders in Britain, imagine if all Muslims were suddenly stripped of their homes, property & kicked out by the Brits! whistling2

    Of course, most Muslims refused to leave their homes in India,& Muslims were settled in all nooks & corners in India, so India had a huge Muslim population.

    Pakistan thought it'd manage brilliantly free of the infidel idolaters, as it happens, it was no Israel, it rather is on course to become another Talibanistan.

    Islam divides the world into, "Dar ul islam" & "Dar ul Harb"- the latter designation being the House of War which has to be won over.

    Its no wonder that people with this mentality don't think twice over demanding separate homelands & kicking millions out, but are enraged should Jewish "apes & pigs" settle on even a tiny piece of their land, then such a land has to be won back at all costs!

    Alas, as I said, karma's a bitch! dance

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #20 - April 16, 2009, 01:22 PM

    that guy is from Punjab, he is a Punjabi


    But he aint living in Punjab. How do you know?
    Peshawar isnt a part of Punjab anymore
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #21 - April 16, 2009, 01:30 PM

    Quote
    You complain about "Islamophobia" & Geert Wilders in Britain, imagine if all Muslims were suddenly stripped of their homes, property & kicked out by the Brits! whistling2


    I have already said that I don't think partition of India should have happened, just like I think Israel should never have been created. Unfortunately, these two events have happened and giving the whole of Israel back to the Palestinians and incorporating Pakistan and Bangladesh back into India is not an option.

    The difference between Israel and Pakistan is the creation of Pakistan was essentially independence for the majority Muslim states in the North West of India and the Bengal, whereas Israel at the time was majority Arab. Yes more people were displaced in Pakistan than In Israel, but as a percentage, 18% of the population of Pakistan was displaced. The population of Israel at its creation was 1.2 million and it is estimated between 420000 and 910000 Palestians left the territories. That is between 35% and 76%! Unfortunately, they did not realise that there was also a sizable hindu and sikh presence in these areas and it was not 100% Muslim and there were too many casualties on all sides.

    Quote
    Pakistan thought it'd manage brilliantly free of the infidel idolaters, as it happens, it was no Israel, it rather is on course to become another Talibanistan.

    Islam divides the world into, "Dar ul islam" & "Dar ul Harb"- the latter designation being the House of War which has to be won over.

    Its no wonder that people with this mentality don't think twice over demanding separate homelands & kicking millions out, but are enraged should Jewish "apes & pigs" settle on even a tiny piece of their land, then such a land has to be won back at all costs!


    Pakistan was not created because they hated Hindus and refused to live with Hindus and the evil Muslims were being stubborn and were having a Jihad against the Hindus.  The people who advocated Pakistan did not have this attitude. The All India Muslim League was created in 1906, because Muslims felt that they were being underrepresented and did not have as many rights as Hindus in the Indian National Congress. Pakistan was only first mentioned in 1930. So what did the Muslim League want in the 24 years between 1906 and 1930? They wanted a single Independant India.

    Jinnah was originally gunning for a Hindu-Muslim alliance and wanted a united India, but became disillusioned and felt that Muslims would be underrepresented in a united India and that is when he started to advocate a seperate state for Muslims. It was by no means an anti-Hindu Jihad, but a way to safeguard the interests of Muslims and making sure that Muslims would not be oppressed once India was independent. Pakistan was created as a secular state where you could be Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Christian or anything you wanted. It is not perfect but it is definitely one of the more free and tolerant Muslim countries. I would rather live in Pakistan as a non-Muslim than in Saudi Arabia.

    Quote
    Pakistan thought it'd manage brilliantly free of the infidel idolaters


    You really, really can't make statements like that. It is highly inaccurate when talking about the founders of the state of Pakistan, and you have just assumed that was the reasoning behind the creation of Pakistan without doing any research. You have not said any facts about the partition of India, only what you assume to be the mentality of all Muslims.

    I have been to Pakistan many times and I can tell you that although the North West Frontier Provice has unfortunately become Talibanised, the rest of Pakistan has very little chance of doing so.For the Taliban to take control in the rest of Pakistan, they would have to have popular support and they would not get that. The people had a chance last year to vote in the Islamist Parties but voted in secular Parties, even if they are corrupt, they are still better than the Taliban.

    I've just remembered this was meant to be a light hearted post!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #22 - April 16, 2009, 01:33 PM

    that guy is from Punjab, he is a Punjabi


    But he aint living in Punjab. How do you know?
    Peshawar isnt a part of Punjab anymore


    Of course he is, he is living in the "plains" = the Punjab plains.
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #23 - April 16, 2009, 01:37 PM

    that guy is from Punjab, he is a Punjabi


    But he aint living in Punjab. How do you know?
    Peshawar isnt a part of Punjab anymore


    Of course he is, he is living in the "plains" = the Punjab plains.

    Im gonna take your word for it. lol
    You dont see much Punjabi royalty anymore so it seems a bit sketchy. Ill take your word for it. After all, the Maharaja of Nabha's line is still running.
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #24 - April 16, 2009, 01:41 PM

    Pakistan was meant not for Independence of only the Muslim majority areas, but as a home for all Muslims in the sub continent. All

    Muslims from the South Indian states of Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala & Andhra Pradesh settled there-they had different mother tongues, often very different cultures but it was also meant for all of them.

    India is still bigger than Europe without Russia, so Muslims from all over India moving there is as significant as Jews from all over Europe moving to Israel.

    The difference you mentioned isn't true, both are sad events, both happened.

    Israel was created to protect Jewish interests from another Holocaust, Pakistan to protect Muslim interests all over the sub continent, should they choose to migrate to Pakistan.The Holocaust was a real sad incident, & anyone would require protection from its recurrence, although that certainly doesn't justify stealing land.

    My Zoroastrian great grandparents lived in Pak, they lost all their land & houses overnight, just like my long ago Iranian Zoroastrian ancestors had lost their lives & lands & sought asylum in India during the Islamic jihad in Iran nearly 1400 years ago.

    I don't see whats' so special about % terms over individual lives, infact as far as individuals are concerned-it was better in the Israel case, had only all the Arab states co operated to open their doors to the refugees, instead of feeding their grudge.

    The biggest difference is the attitude of people who lost their lives & lands, one group chose to re settle in India & moved on, the other still wants to wipe Israel off the map.

    P.S.: I too know that its a light herated topic, & I too would prefer to let it remain one, my comments about Muslim double standards can be posted on other threads.  Smiley

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #25 - April 16, 2009, 02:18 PM

    Pakistan was meant not for Independence of only the Muslim majority areas, but as a home for all Muslims in the sub continent. All

    Muslims from the South Indian states of Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala & Andhra Pradesh settled there-they had different mother tongues, often very different cultures but it was also meant for all of them.

    India is still bigger than Europe without Russia, so Muslims from all over India moving there is as significant as Jews from all over Europe moving to Israel.

    The difference you mentioned isn't true, both are sad events, both happened.

    Israel was created to protect Jewish interests from another Holocaust, Pakistan to protect Muslim interests all over the sub continent, should they choose to migrate to Pakistan.The Holocaust was a real sad incident, & anyone would require protection from its recurrence, although that certainly doesn't justify stealing land.

    My Zoroastrian great grandparents lived in Pak, they lost all their land & houses overnight, just like my long ago Iranian Zoroastrian ancestors had lost their lives & lands & sought asylum in India during the Islamic jihad in Iran nearly 1400 years ago.

    I don't see whats' so special about % terms over individual lives, infact as far as individuals are concerned-it was better in the Israel case, had only all the Arab states co operated to open their doors to the refugees, instead of feeding their grudge.

    The biggest difference is the attitude of people who lost their lives & lands, one group chose to re settle in India & moved on, the other still wants to wipe Israel off the map.

    P.S.: I too know that its a light herated topic, & I too would prefer to let it remain one, my comments about Muslim double standards can be posted on other threads.  Smiley


    My point wasn't that it was independence for the said states. My point was the Muslims were given the 5 Muslim majority states to form an independent state as opposed to Israel where one group of people were displaced for another group of people. In the theory of the creation of Pakistan, the non-muslims who lived there were free to stay there or leave. Unfortunately it did not happen like that, people were forced to leave their homes and there were too many casualties. The reason I mentioned the percentage of people displaced in Pakistan and Israel was to show that the creation of Israel and the creation of Pakistan were different and cannot really be compared.

    Quote
    The biggest difference is the attitude of people who lost their lives & lands, one group chose to re settle in India & moved on, the other still wants to wipe Israel off the map.


    So what are you saying? The Palestinians should accept being forced out of their homes and essentially living in a prison in Gaza and move on with their lives like everything is OK?! The group that chose to resettle in India are not living at second class citizens in fear of their lives. In Gaza, the people are living in a virtual prison, unlike the people who resettled in India and Pakistan. They have got an extreme hostile neighbour, which basically controls them and are of fear from attack every day unlike the people who resettled in India and Pakistan.
    In Operation Cast Lead, 1370 Palestinians were killed and 13 Israelis were killed (3 from friendly fire!). There are currently four million Palestians refugees (by UN estimates). And Israel is the victim!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #26 - April 16, 2009, 02:34 PM

    My point wasn't that it was independence for the said states. My point was the Muslims were given the 5 Muslim majority states to form an independent state as opposed to Israel where one group of people were displaced for another group of people. In the theory of the creation of Pakistan, the non-muslims who lived there were free to stay there or leave. Unfortunately it did not happen like that, people were forced to leave their homes and there were too many casualties. The reason I mentioned the percentage of people displaced in Pakistan and Israel was to show that the creation of Israel and the creation of Pakistan were different and cannot really be compared.



    Again, strawman. One group of people didn't totally displace another, Jerusalem was majority Jewish & loads of Jews had lived in the area for millennia. People were free to stay on in Israel too, but were mostly expelled after war broke out. The difference is that more land & lives were lost in the case of the creation of Pak & Bangladesh than Israel.

    So what are you saying? The Palestinians should accept being forced out of their homes and essentially living in a prison in Gaza and move on with their lives like everything is OK?! The group that chose to resettle in India are not living at second class citizens in fear of their lives. In Gaza, the people are living in a virtual prison, unlike the people who resettled in India and Pakistan. They have got an extreme hostile neighbour, which basically controls them and are of fear from attack every day unlike the people who resettled in India and Pakistan.
    In Operation Cast Lead, 1370 Palestinians were killed and 13 Israelis were killed (3 from friendly fire!). There are currently four million Palestians refugees (by UN estimates). And Israel is the victim!


    The people living in India aren't living in fear of their lives as they haven't announced the aim to wipe Pakistan off the map, even the aim to get back all the homes of their ancestors. The reason why Gaza Strip is a prison is precisely because even after the Jews had handed it over, the Gazans, instead of adhering to the peace treaty, fired 6000 rockets into Israel.

    The reason they have an extremely hostile neighbour is also exactly because they want to wipe that neighbour off the map, not only they but Muslim Iran too. If India & another nation had its official policy to wipe Pakistan off the map, then things would be as bad too!

    Israel had the magnanimity to hand back Gaza Strip, had only the Gazans made a real attempt ot peace! Roll Eyes

    I don't remember Pakistan handing back even an inch!Just like Israel wants more land, Pak wants more land in Kashmir & is making massive attempts to get that, again with tremendous deaths & destructions & flight of millions of non Muslims from the region.

    The problems of the Gazans are self made, had they stopped amateur rockets for a few years, accepted that Israel is here to stay, like the non Muslims who fled Pak have accepted, their problems would be solved-or at least brought down to the same level as the Kashmir issue.

    They also need to tell their co religionists in Iran to stay away.

    If Pakistan laid down its arms today, there'd still be Pakistan, at least India won't try to wipe it off, although the Taliban may want to take over.

    In contrast, if Israel laid down her arms today-there'd be no Israel.  Smiley


    That won't happen.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #27 - April 16, 2009, 03:16 PM

    The people living in India aren't living in fear of their lives as they haven't announced the aim to wipe Pakistan off the map, even the aim to get back all the homes of their ancestors. The reason why Gaza Strip is a prison is precisely because even after the Jews had handed it over, the Gazans, instead of adhering to the peace treaty, fired 6000 rockets into Israel.

    The reason they have an extremely hostile neighbour is also exactly because they want to wipe that neighbour off the map, not only they but Muslim Iran too. If India & another nation had its official policy to wipe Pakistan off the map, then things would be as bad too!

    Israel had the magnanimity to hand back Gaza Strip, had only the Gazans made a real attempt ot peace! Roll Eyes


    Quote
    The problems of the Gazans are self made, had they stopped amateur rockets for a few years, accepted that Israel is here to stay, like the non Muslims who fled Pak have accepted, their problems would be solved-or at least brought down to the same level as the Kashmir issue.


    Israel did not hand Gaza back to the Palestinians and Gaza is by no means independent. Just because there is a Hamas "government" and Israeli settlement, does not mean the Palestinians can get on with their lives in a lovely new independent country. Israel still controls Gaza. Israel never stopped controlling Gaza. Israel controls what goes in and what goes out of Gaza. Palestinians are living as second class citizens. If you look at the casualties from both sides, the Palestinian casualties far outweigh the Israeli casualties! (From 2005 - 2008, excluding Operation Cast Lead, 1753 Palestians and 117 Israelis killed). Surely you can see why they are unhappy!

    Quote
    I don't remember Pakistan handing back even an inch!Just like Israel wants more land, Pak wants more land in Kashmir & is making massive attempts to get that, again with tremendous deaths & destructions & flight of millions of non Muslims from the region.


    You have just shown that you really do not understand the Kashmir situation. It is not just the greedy Pakistanis wanting more land and the Indians are completely innocent! Pakistan owns a third of Kashmir. India owns a half of Kashmir. China owns the rest. Jammu which belongs to India is not disputed and Azad Kashmir which belongs to Pakistan is not disputed. The Northern Areas (Pakistan), Ladakh (India) and Aksai Chin (China) are the disputed areas. India claims that all of these areas are part of its territory. Pakistan claims all of these areas apart from Aksai Chin (China did a deal with Pakistan for this area) are part of its territory. India and Pakistan both want the same territory, its not just Pakistan being aggressive!

    You talk about the deaths and destructions and flight of millions of non muslims from that region. The Northern Areas, which is by far the most populous of the disputed areas, and already belongs to Pakistan is almost entirely Muslims. The disputed territory in India has a population of about 250000 and is majority Buddhist. So where do these millions of non-muslims who are going to die and leave their homes come from?

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #28 - April 16, 2009, 03:29 PM


    Israel did not hand Gaza back to the Palestinians and Gaza is by no means independent. Just because there is a Hamas "government" and Israeli settlement, does not mean the Palestinians can get on with their lives in a lovely new independent country. Israel still controls Gaza. Israel never stopped controlling Gaza. Israel controls what goes in and what goes out of Gaza. Palestinians are living as second class citizens. If you look at the casualties from both sides, the Palestinian casualties far outweigh the Israeli casualties! (From 2005 - 2008, excluding Operation Cast Lead, 1753 Palestians and 117 Israelis killed). Surely you can see why they are unhappy!


    Well, Israel still needs to control Gaza precisely because Gaza's elected sovereign Hamas(& Muslim nations like Iran) are hell bent to wipe Israel off the map. Did the Gazans, even on partially getting back Gaza, change their intentions? Nope. Had they announced that they realise that Israel is here to stay & can't & shouldn't be wiped off, things would've been infinitely better.

    Sure, there have been more casualties on the Palestinian side, but thats' because they're the weaker side militarily. Is physical or military weakness a sign of moral superiority? Should a physically stronger person accede to the weaker person taking advantage of him?

    As for Israel, it has to keep fighting if only to simply exist, when its right to exist is threatened & denied by Hamas(& Iran!)

    If a rapist wants to rape me, & I gorge out his eyes because of my superior strength, but he still wants to rape me, & I cut off his arm, am I to be blamed for the rapist's "unhappiness?" Roll Eyes

    Islamists want to take over all these lands:

    www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    You can see that they're regularly attacking Southern Thailand, Southern Phillipines & plenty of other places with the explicit purpose of getting lands to become new Muslim nations. Thousands of Buddhists from Southern Thailand & Catholic from Southern Phillipines have fled the regions-but of course Muslims are also dying & living unhappily, as they're unable to get the lands they seek & are being killed in counter attacks, & viewed suspiciously, now should the world give them whatever lands they want, & stop fighting them even if they have greater military strength, only to make them "happy"? Roll Eyes

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #29 - April 16, 2009, 03:47 PM


    Israel did not hand Gaza back to the Palestinians and Gaza is by no means independent. Just because there is a Hamas "government" and Israeli settlement, does not mean the Palestinians can get on with their lives in a lovely new independent country. Israel still controls Gaza. Israel never stopped controlling Gaza. Israel controls what goes in and what goes out of Gaza. Palestinians are living as second class citizens. If you look at the casualties from both sides, the Palestinian casualties far outweigh the Israeli casualties! (From 2005 - 2008, excluding Operation Cast Lead, 1753 Palestians and 117 Israelis killed). Surely you can see why they are unhappy!


    Well, Israel still needs to control Gaza precisely because Gaza's elected sovereign Hamas(& Muslim nations like Iran) are hell bent to wipe Israel off the map. Did the Gazans, even on partially getting back Gaza, change their intentions? Nope. Had they announced that they realise that Israel is here to stay & can't & shouldn't be wiped off, things would've been infinitely better.

    Sure, there have been more casualties on the Palestinian side, but thats' because they're the weaker side militarily. Is physical or military weakness a sign of moral superiority? Should a physically stronger person accede to the weaker person taking advantage of him?

    As for Israel, it has to keep fighting if only to simply exist, when its right to exist is threatened & denied by Hamas(& Iran!)

    If a rapist wants to rape me, & I gorge out his eyes because of my superior strength, but he still wants to rape me, & I cut off his arm, am I to be blamed for the rapist's "unhappiness?" Roll Eyes

    Islamists want to take over all these lands:

    www.thereligionofpeace.com/


    If Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map, why did they hold a ceasefire with Israel in 2008. And who was it who broke the ceasefire. The ceasefire was broken was Israeli troops entered the Gaza strip and killed six Hamas gunmen.

    And you admit that Gaza was not given independence, because you said that Israel has to control Gaza. So what you were saying about the Gaza strip being handed back to the Palestians and they should like it was rubbish?

    Quote
    You can see that they're regularly attacking Southern Thailand, Southern Phillipines & plenty of other places with the explicit purpose of getting lands to become new Muslim nations. Thousands of Buddhists from Southern Thailand & Catholic from Southern Phillipines have fled the regions-but of course Muslims are also dying & living unhappily, as they're unable to get the lands they seek & are being killed in counter attacks, & viewed suspiciously, now should the world give them whatever lands they want, & stop fighting them even if they have greater military strength, only to make them "happy"? Roll Eyes


    What had that got to do with anything? We were talking about Kashmir and Palestine. Who is regularly attacking Southern Thailand, Southern Phillipines and plenty of other places? Sorry, I'm not being rude, I'm just a bit confused!

    And I forgot to say in the last post, you can't just make up facts and numbers about the millions of non muslims who are being killed and forced from their homes because of Pakistani violence in Kashmir!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
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