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 Topic: hello from a new member

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  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #30 - April 16, 2009, 07:34 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:08 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on April 16, 2009, 07:04 AM
    Homosexuality and paralysis and hardly comparable Tut, one's a disability and the other isn't.


    In the evolutionary sense it is a disability. For humans, i.e. lack of ability to raise off-spring naturally. Gays wanting adoption rights is like paralysed people asking for wheel chairs.

    Gays can acquire children through other means meaning it is not a disability any more per se. Those in wheelchairs on the other hand are still restricted from doing many things.

    I don't see what evolution has to do with any of this...
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #31 - April 16, 2009, 07:39 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:27 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 16, 2009, 07:14 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:08 AM
    In the evolutionary sense it is a disability.

    Who said that - Darwin or King Tut? Evolution has no sense nor direction.

    Where did I assert it does, evolution is competently naturally, species which cannot bread or cannot adapt to the environment fast enough die off, there are always negative an positive mutations in evolution sometimes a mutation might give you an advantage sometimes it might be a negative mutation. According natural selection only the fit species which are able to breed and have positive mutations will live. Pandas for example have stopped fucking, which has made them almost extinct, that is natural selection for you, as off spring are not being born. 

    Reproduction is a required by-product of evolution, but not evolution itself
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #32 - April 16, 2009, 07:40 AM
    Let me also clarify, homosexuals are not disabled due to the ability, of humans having a higher cognitive ability to reason and rationalize, and even some animals display some traits of it, such as gay penguins stealing eggs from heterosexual couples, of course in the real world, homosexuals don't need to steal, they can adopt, or maybe in the future test tube babies with her own genes. Its just that in the wild it would be a disadvantage. It in the wild it would be a disability but in the civilized world, if you can compete equally then it is not a disability.

    I have nothing against homosexuals. (stop reading here if you get offended easily)


    .....

    I just don't think homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children who cannot make an informed choice of weather or not wanting to live with homosexual couple.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #33 - April 16, 2009, 07:42 AM
    I repeat: to prove homosexuality is a disability in evolutionary terms you will have to prove that it is detrimental to the survival of the species as a whole, and I am willing to bet that you will be unable to prove this. Produce your evidence.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #34 - April 16, 2009, 07:48 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 07:34 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:22 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 07:15 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:08 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on April 16, 2009, 07:04 AM
    Homosexuality and paralysis and hardly comparable Tut, one's a disability and the other isn't.


    In the evolutionary sense it is a disability.

    Prove that assertion.  cool2


    In evolution terms it is a negative, you cannot breed naturally. It is a negative aspect, as species we need to disperse our genes, do you know why according to Darwinian evolution a woman would jump into a river to save her child despite not having the ability to swim and would do so at is own personal risk? it is not out of empathy for the child its out of selfishness, the selfishness to keep your own genes going and reproducing more genes.   

    To prove that homosexuality is a "disability in evolutionary terms" you would have to prove that it was detrimental to the survival of the species as a whole. I am willing to bet that you will be unable to do this.


    What the hell are you talking about? homosexuals are not some other species of humans or a sub genre of humans, they are humans! but of course in the wild say for example during the early period of the great ape for example if if the population of the great apes were very low and most of them later become homosexual we would be extinct. Humans are the 5th ape. 
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #35 - April 16, 2009, 07:50 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:40 AM
    Let me also clarify, homosexuals are not disabled due to the ability, of humans having a higher cognitive ability to reason and rationalize, and even some animals display some traits of it, such as gay penguins stealing eggs from heterosexual couples, of course in the real world, homosexuals don't need to steal, they can adopt, or maybe in the future test tube babies with her own genes. Its just that in the wild it would be a disadvantage. It in the wild it would be a disability but in the civilized world, if you can compete equally then it is not a disability.

    I have nothing against homosexuals. (stop reading here if you get offended easily)


    .....

    I just don't think homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children who cannot make an informed choice of weather or not wanting to live with homosexual couple.


    Thats right lets pay for them to go to foster homes, or better still to have no adults care for them unconditionally throughout their lifetimes. Thats less painful than living with societies homophobic fringes' attitudes towards their parenting.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #36 - April 16, 2009, 07:52 AM
    Its only due to our higher cognitive abilities we cannot be extinct even if everyone turned homosexual, we would still through intellect be able to impregnate maybe some female apes with sperm. Did you know I can mate with a female ape? I mean the ones in the wild I can make a baby!  Afro
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #37 - April 16, 2009, 07:59 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:52 AM
    Its only due to our higher cognitive abilities we cannot be extinct even if everyone turned homosexual, we would still through intellect be able to impregnate maybe some female apes with sperm. I mean the ones in the wild I can make a baby!  Afro

    A homosexual can have their own biological children e.g. testube babies
    Quote
    Did you know I can mate with a female ape?

    Where did you get this from?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #38 - April 16, 2009, 08:01 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 16, 2009, 07:59 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:52 AM
    Its only due to our higher cognitive abilities we cannot be extinct even if everyone turned homosexual, we would still through intellect be able to impregnate maybe some female apes with sperm. I mean the ones in the wild I can make a baby!  Afro

    A homosexual can have their own biological children e.g. testube babies
    Quote
    Did you know I can mate with a female ape?

    Where did you get this from?


    I am not saying it would be easy, but it is a possibility. As we are from the same family. Maybe the baby would be sterile, but there is a possibility it a human could bread with a ape. I just think it need to be given a good try!   
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #39 - April 16, 2009, 08:02 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:48 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 07:34 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:22 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 07:15 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:08 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on April 16, 2009, 07:04 AM
    Homosexuality and paralysis and hardly comparable Tut, one's a disability and the other isn't.


    In the evolutionary sense it is a disability.

    Prove that assertion.  cool2


    In evolution terms it is a negative, you cannot breed naturally. It is a negative aspect, as species we need to disperse our genes, do you know why according to Darwinian evolution a woman would jump into a river to save her child despite not having the ability to swim and would do so at is own personal risk? it is not out of empathy for the child its out of selfishness, the selfishness to keep your own genes going and reproducing more genes.   

    To prove that homosexuality is a "disability in evolutionary terms" you would have to prove that it was detrimental to the survival of the species as a whole. I am willing to bet that you will be unable to do this.


    What the hell are you talking about? homosexuals are not some other species of humans or a sub genre of humans, they are humans! but of course in the wild say for example during the early period of the great ape for example if if the population of the great apes were very low and most of them later become homosexual we would be extinct. Humans are the 5th ape. 

    None of which is the slightest bit relevant to the central point. We are not discussing a small population of apes in which most of them do not reproduce. We are discussing humans. You made the claim that homosexuality is a disability in evolutionary terms. This is equivalent to claiming that the actual rate of homosexuality is reducing the likelihood that our species will survive. You cannot prove this assertion. When I said I was willing to bet you couldn't prove it I wasn't joking. I could make some easy money out of this.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #40 - April 16, 2009, 08:04 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:01 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 16, 2009, 07:59 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:52 AM
    Its only due to our higher cognitive abilities we cannot be extinct even if everyone turned homosexual, we would still through intellect be able to impregnate maybe some female apes with sperm. I mean the ones in the wild I can make a baby!  Afro

    A homosexual can have their own biological children e.g. testube babies
    Quote
    Did you know I can mate with a female ape?

    Where did you get this from?


    I am not saying it would be easy, but it is a possibility. As we are from the same family. Maybe the baby would be sterile, but there is a possibility it a human could bread with a ape. I just think it need to be given a good try!   

    We're not talking about your ex-girlfriends here - it is generally accepted this is not possible
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #41 - April 16, 2009, 08:05 AM
    A warm welcome Ned  far away hug Afro

    @Everyone: If anyone is interested Maryam Namazie is giving a talk about "Islam, Human Rights and Homophobia" sponsored by the Gay And Lesbian Humanist Association.

    http://www.meetup.com/galhagroup/calendar/9371828/

    http://www.galha.org

    I'm hoping to go along, so if anyone wants to come along maybe we could meet-up for a drink and a chat Smiley

    ps - I'm not Gay - don't know why I thought I should add that lol grin12 it's just that I don't have the kids at the mo so am FREE to have a bit of a life - until I get the kids back on Sunday.

    pps - I do however fully support Gay Rights and am very much against homophobia etc...

  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #42 - April 16, 2009, 08:11 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 16, 2009, 08:04 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:01 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 16, 2009, 07:59 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:52 AM
    Its only due to our higher cognitive abilities we cannot be extinct even if everyone turned homosexual, we would still through intellect be able to impregnate maybe some female apes with sperm. I mean the ones in the wild I can make a baby!  Afro

    A homosexual can have their own biological children e.g. testube babies
    Quote
    Did you know I can mate with a female ape?

    Where did you get this from?


    I am not saying it would be easy, but it is a possibility. As we are from the same family. Maybe the baby would be sterile, but there is a possibility it a human could bread with a ape. I just think it need to be given a good try!   

    We're not talking about your ex-girlfriends here - it is generally accepted this is not possible


    It is inclusive, no one really has the balls to breed with female apes/chimps for ethical reasons, but yet I see dogs fucking women and horse fucking women and all kinds of nasty porn. But they have a problem when it becomes scientific! 
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #43 - April 16, 2009, 08:11 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 06:39 AM
    Can I ask you a question if you do not mind, I don't understand this. Why would you mention your sexual preference on a formal introduction thread?


    Because there is still massive prejudice against Gays and so it is a way of breaking down that taboo.

    Just like we say we are Ex-Muslims.

    I hope one day both she and I will say we are just human beings - without any need for labels.

    Until then the world is still full of idiots who have a problem with people who leave Islam or who are Gay.

    Sadly you are one of the latter.
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #44 - April 16, 2009, 08:14 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 08:02 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:48 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 07:34 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:22 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 07:15 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:08 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on April 16, 2009, 07:04 AM
    Homosexuality and paralysis and hardly comparable Tut, one's a disability and the other isn't.


    In the evolutionary sense it is a disability.

    Prove that assertion.  cool2


    In evolution terms it is a negative, you cannot breed naturally. It is a negative aspect, as species we need to disperse our genes, do you know why according to Darwinian evolution a woman would jump into a river to save her child despite not having the ability to swim and would do so at is own personal risk? it is not out of empathy for the child its out of selfishness, the selfishness to keep your own genes going and reproducing more genes.   

    To prove that homosexuality is a "disability in evolutionary terms" you would have to prove that it was detrimental to the survival of the species as a whole. I am willing to bet that you will be unable to do this.


    What the hell are you talking about? homosexuals are not some other species of humans or a sub genre of humans, they are humans! but of course in the wild say for example during the early period of the great ape for example if if the population of the great apes were very low and most of them later become homosexual we would be extinct. Humans are the 5th ape. 

    None of which is the slightest bit relevant to the central point. We are not discussing a small population of apes in which most of them do not reproduce. We are discussing humans. You made the claim that homosexuality is a disability in evolutionary terms. This is equivalent to claiming that the actual rate of homosexuality is reducing the likelihood that our species will survive. You cannot prove this assertion. When I said I was willing to bet you couldn't prove it I wasn't joking. I could make some easy money out of this.


    It still would be a disability to that particularity person, if we did not have alternative ways, for example if we did not have a concept of adoption and test tube babies ect, just like we don't have a concept of how to get paralysed person to walk again or an amputee to grow some legs.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #45 - April 16, 2009, 08:17 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:40 AM
    I just don't think homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children who cannot make an informed choice of weather or not wanting to live with homosexual couple.

    I'm going to turn this on it's head and say heterosexual couples should not be allowed to adopt children who cannot make an informed choice of whether or not they want to live with a heterosexual couple.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #46 - April 16, 2009, 08:18 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 16, 2009, 08:11 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 06:39 AM
    Can I ask you a question if you do not mind, I don't understand this. Why would you mention your sexual preference on a formal introduction thread?


    Because there is still massive prejudice against Gays and so it is a way of breaking down that taboo.

    Just like we say we are Ex-Muslims.

    I hope one day both she and I will say we are just human beings - without any need for labels.

    Until then the world is still full of idiots who have a problem with people who leave Islam or who are Gay.

    Sadly you are one of the latter.


    No Hassan I don't have a problem with gays, I really don't. In fact I used to have a gay manger he was the best manger I ever had, I still have his number. I've even been to parties he has had, he used to get me loads of girls number too.  Wink
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #47 - April 16, 2009, 08:20 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 16, 2009, 08:05 AM
    A warm welcome Ned  far away hug Afro

    @Everyone: If anyone is interested Maryam Namazie is giving a talk about "Islam, Human Rights and Homophobia" sponsored by the Gay And Lesbian Humanist Association. ( www.galha.org )

    I'm hoping to go along, so if anyone wants to come along maybe we could meet-up for a drink and a chat Smiley

    ps - I'm not Gay - don't know why I thought I should add that lol grin12 it's just that I don't have the kids at the mo so am FREE to have a bit of a life - until I get the kids back on Sunday.

    pps - I do however fully support Gay Rights and am very much against homophobia etc...

    It's a shame I cant go, I live too far away :(

    Welcome back btw, I knew you couldn't stay away from us and I was right Tongue
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #48 - April 16, 2009, 08:22 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on April 16, 2009, 08:17 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:40 AM
    I just don't think homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children who cannot make an informed choice of weather or not wanting to live with homosexual couple.

    I'm going to turn this on it's head and say heterosexual couples should not be allowed to adopt children who cannot make an informed choice of whether or not they want to live with a heterosexual couple.



    You cannot take child out of natural environment, throw it into an artificial one and expect it to me normally, I think to raise a good balanced healthy child you need the touch of a man and a woman, but mostly a woman. For me, the problem is a child cannot make an informed choice if it wants to live with homosexuals or not. I don't think homosexuals are bad parents, but your putting that child out to be a target in school, imagine everyone finding out, one you are adopted and two you live with a gay couple.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #49 - April 16, 2009, 08:24 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:14 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 08:02 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:48 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 07:34 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:22 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 07:15 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 07:08 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on April 16, 2009, 07:04 AM
    Homosexuality and paralysis and hardly comparable Tut, one's a disability and the other isn't.


    In the evolutionary sense it is a disability.

    Prove that assertion.  cool2


    In evolution terms it is a negative, you cannot breed naturally. It is a negative aspect, as species we need to disperse our genes, do you know why according to Darwinian evolution a woman would jump into a river to save her child despite not having the ability to swim and would do so at is own personal risk? it is not out of empathy for the child its out of selfishness, the selfishness to keep your own genes going and reproducing more genes.   

    To prove that homosexuality is a "disability in evolutionary terms" you would have to prove that it was detrimental to the survival of the species as a whole. I am willing to bet that you will be unable to do this.


    What the hell are you talking about? homosexuals are not some other species of humans or a sub genre of humans, they are humans! but of course in the wild say for example during the early period of the great ape for example if if the population of the great apes were very low and most of them later become homosexual we would be extinct. Humans are the 5th ape. 

    None of which is the slightest bit relevant to the central point. We are not discussing a small population of apes in which most of them do not reproduce. We are discussing humans. You made the claim that homosexuality is a disability in evolutionary terms. This is equivalent to claiming that the actual rate of homosexuality is reducing the likelihood that our species will survive. You cannot prove this assertion. When I said I was willing to bet you couldn't prove it I wasn't joking. I could make some easy money out of this.


    It still would be a disability to that particularity person, if we did not have alternative ways, for example if we did not have a concept of adoption and test tube babies ect, just like we don't have a concept of how to get paralysed person to walk again or an amputee to grow some legs.

    Again, this is completely irrelevant to the central point. It is perfectly possible for something to be an advantage in evolutionary terms even if it does not result in all members of the species reproducing. You made a claim that you cannot support. I suggest you retract it.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #50 - April 16, 2009, 08:28 AM
    But you would have to point out how it is advantage to be a homosexual excusivly.

    You see the thing is, its hard for me to comprehend why a lesbian would not have sex with a man and not enjoy it even a slight bit, if I can enjoy having sex with a man. But I generally prefer to have sex with women, it is just a concept beyond me.   
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #51 - April 16, 2009, 08:29 AM
    Welcome NED. I see your thread has 'evolved' from one of greetings to one of adoption.

    But never mind, that how we can be sometimes.

    I know things may not be easy in Pakistan and I understand your wish to emigrate. However if those with the will to make change, are not there, such places will forever remain with its 7th century ideology.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #52 - April 16, 2009, 08:32 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:28 AM
    But you would have to point out how it is advantage to be a homosexual excusivly.

    I don't have to do anything of the sort. You made the claim. You support it.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #53 - April 16, 2009, 08:34 AM
    Would a lesbian have sex with a feminine guy? i.e. in the sense he looks like a girl?

    Would a lesbian have sex with him for example:
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #54 - April 16, 2009, 08:35 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 08:32 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:28 AM
    But you would have to point out how it is advantage to be a homosexual excusivly.

    I don't have to do anything of the sort. You made the claim. You support it.


    I did, homosexuals cannont produce off-spring naturally.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #55 - April 16, 2009, 08:42 AM
    That's like saying that worker ants and soldier ants have a disadvantage over queen ants because they cannot reproduce.

    Being unable to reproduce is not necessarily an evolutionary disadvantage.
    In fact, a specimen that does not reproduce can still help its genetic code survive and spread by taking care of relatives.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #56 - April 16, 2009, 08:42 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:35 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 08:32 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:28 AM
    But you would have to point out how it is advantage to be a homosexual excusivly.

    I don't have to do anything of the sort. You made the claim. You support it.


    I did, homosexuals cannont produce off-spring naturally.

    Which does nothing to support your assertion. Massive fail. You don't appear to even understand what you're actually asserting. Do you even know anything about evolution?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #57 - April 16, 2009, 08:51 AM







    <------- See: your post has lowered my IQ.



    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 08:42 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:35 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 16, 2009, 08:32 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 16, 2009, 08:28 AM
    But you would have to point out how it is advantage to be a homosexual excusivly.

    I don't have to do anything of the sort. You made the claim. You support it.


    I did, homosexuals cannont produce off-spring naturally.

    Which does nothing to support your assertion. Massive fail. You don't appear to even understand what you're actually asserting. Do you even know anything about evolution?

    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #58 - April 16, 2009, 08:53 AM
    You're evading now. Why not simply admit you were wrong?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: hello from a new member
     Reply #59 - April 16, 2009, 08:57 AM
    This might be rather late in the day, but hi ned!  Smiley

    Glad you visited us & hope you hang around! yes
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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