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 Topic: Fear of Hell

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  • Fear of Hell
     OP - April 16, 2009, 09:46 PM

    Now I know many people here will say that fear of Hell is just stupid and that they have never feared Hell etc... Fine - good for you and that's probably why you are here amongst those who have been able to reject Islam.

    But fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.

    Not so long ago someone sent me a PM on Youtube, saying "You won't go to Hell" - it almost brought me to tears.

    I posted that message here "You wont Go to Hell" , but I don't think many ppl got it (Emerald did) - the reason most here didn't get it is perhaps because many here haven't felt it - but I know most Muslims out there would get it.

    "You WON'T Go to Hell if you reject Islam!"

    Without that fear people can start thinking clearly again.

    Anyway here is a great video about Hell.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU



  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #1 - April 16, 2009, 09:59 PM

    Great video, particulary at the beginning and at the end - thanks for posting..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #2 - April 16, 2009, 10:08 PM

    Ironically, "fear of Hell" is what turned me from Catholic to Skeptic.

    I was in my young teen years and I did not care much about religion. Until I studied "The Divine Comedy" by Dante Alighieri and I had a sort of pseudo-mystical revelation. I started wondering "what if God is going to punish me like THAT?"
    The cultural brainwashing had been so strong that for the following weeks I really wanted to feel God and believe in God.

    And then I asked myself "but, if I were God, would I torture anyone like that? ... no... how can I be more merciful than God?"
    And, there, I made the first step to skepticism.

    Then the compulsory high school course in philosophy helped me get more in touch with a logical approach to metaphysics and theology, and I simply stopped believing in anything at all Cheesy
    I thank the combined forces of YHWH, Jesus, Allah, Zeus,  Ra and Brahma for making me a Skeptic Cheesy

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #3 - April 16, 2009, 10:14 PM

    Now I know many people here will say that fear of Hell is just stupid and that they have never feared Hell etc... Fine - good for you and that's probably why you are here amongst those who have been able to reject Islam.

    But fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That is pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it in pretty philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.

    Not so long ago someone sent me a PM saying "You won't go to Hell?" - it almost brought me to tears.

    I posted that message here "You wont Go to Hell" , but I don't think many ppl got it (Wassim did) - the reason most here didn't get it is perhaps because many here haven't felt it - but I know most Muslims out there would get it.

    "You WON'T Go to Hell if you reject Islam!"

    Without that fear people can start thinking clearly again.

    Anyway here is a great video about Hell.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU






    Good points Hassan! Do not worry, I had the exact same feeling when i left Christianity and yea it took a while for it to get out of my head. Hell is truly a sick and twisted idea, and it makes me sick when christians/muslims say it is a perfectly just thing. Muslims also tell me that Allah is 300 times more merciful than he is wrathful. But what I always wondered was, WHY 300? lol, what kind of stupid number is that. But IF there is a hell, we will go to hell together!!  party!  Well, the drinks suck, boiling water and pus from the genitals according to Islam.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #4 - April 16, 2009, 10:23 PM

    Another dilemma that brought me faster to Skepticism was the whole "reward/punishment vs good/evil" issue.

    If I am good expecting the reward of heaven I would be less good than when I am good in spite of sure punishment.
    So, while I was still Christian I wondered how good-acting Atheists, who did good expecting NO reward, were supposed to be punished in Hell while Christians who acted good expecting a reward were going to be rewarded in Heaven.

    And, yet another dilemma was... why do Christians cry about their dead relatives even when they are so sure they lead a perfect Christian life and are bound to be saved?

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #5 - April 16, 2009, 10:42 PM

    Another dilemma that brought me faster to Skepticism was the whole "reward/punishment vs good/evil" issue.

    If I am good expecting the reward of heaven I would be less good than when I am good in spite of sure punishment.
    So, while I was still Christian I wondered how good-acting Atheists, who did good expecting NO reward, were supposed to be punished in Hell while Christians who acted good expecting a reward were going to be rewarded in Heaven.

    And, yet another dilemma was... why do Christians cry about their dead relatives even when they are so sure they lead a perfect Christian life and are bound to be saved?

    This last one gets me too. I've always had the impression that they don't really believe what they claim to believe and that if anything it is more of a forlorn hope.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #6 - April 16, 2009, 11:04 PM

    If I am good expecting the reward of heaven I would be less good than when I am good in spite of sure punishment.
    So, while I was still Christian I wondered how good-acting Atheists, who did good expecting NO reward, were supposed to be punished in Hell while Christians who acted good expecting a reward were going to be rewarded in Heaven.

    This one was a big one for me too - the act of doing good is a selfish act in religion, so why is it rewarded with heaven..  also sceptics going to hell for doing nothing wrong that being sceptical about an invisible being also seemed very unfair

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #7 - April 17, 2009, 12:34 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #8 - April 17, 2009, 12:38 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    NO. In Islam , anybody who does not die as a muslim will go to hell, even if they lived good lives. Hell is a disgusting idea that ruins the minds of children. Your god is a monster.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #9 - April 17, 2009, 12:45 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    NO. In Islam , anybody who does not die as a muslim will go to hell, even if they lived good lives. Hell is a disgusting idea that ruins the minds of children. Your god is a monster.


    a good person (belong to any religion) who believe in god will not go to hell

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #10 - April 17, 2009, 12:50 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    NO. In Islam , anybody who does not die as a muslim will go to hell, even if they lived good lives. Hell is a disgusting idea that ruins the minds of children. Your god is a monster.


    a good person (belong to any religion) who believe in god will not go to hell


    Now you are lying. the Qur'an CLEARLY states that ALL Kaffirs will go to hell. If one disbelieves in Allah, all of their good deeds are worthless and they go to hell. Heaven is only for the muslims who do good. Read the Qur'an a little more carefully.

    "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers."
    [Aal ?Imraan 3:85]

    So even if you are a good non muslim, you are still going to hell.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #11 - April 17, 2009, 01:42 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    NO. In Islam , anybody who does not die as a muslim will go to hell, even if they lived good lives. Hell is a disgusting idea that ruins the minds of children. Your god is a monster.


    a good person (belong to any religion) who believe in god will not go to hell




    "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers."
    [Aal ?Imraan 3:85]



    this verses for those muslims who join other religion


    Quran is a book of guidance for all mankind. But should it be read keeping historical/social context in mind


    God says in the Holy Quran 67:2 ?It is He who created death and life for you that He may try you, as to which of you is best in works....

    The Holy Quran, 21:47 "On the Day of Judgment, We shall set up scales of justice so that no one will be dealt with unjustly in any way; even if someone has an act as small as a grain of a mustard seed, We will bring it to account, and sufficient are We to settle the accounts."

    The Holy Quran 16:111"The day will come when every soul will serve as its own advocate, and every soul will be paid fully for whatever it had done, without the least injustice."

    The Holy Quran 4:124."As for those who lead a righteous life, male or female, while believing, they enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice."

    The Holy Quran 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.




    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #12 - April 17, 2009, 02:03 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    NO. In Islam , anybody who does not die as a muslim will go to hell, even if they lived good lives. Hell is a disgusting idea that ruins the minds of children. Your god is a monster.


    a good person (belong to any religion) who believe in god will not go to hell




    "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers."
    [Aal ?Imraan 3:85]



    this verses for those muslims who join other religion


    Quran is a book of guidance for all mankind. But should it be read keeping historical/social context in mind


    God says in the Holy Quran 67:2 ?It is He who created death and life for you that He may try you, as to which of you is best in works....

    The Holy Quran, 21:47 "On the Day of Judgment, We shall set up scales of justice so that no one will be dealt with unjustly in any way; even if someone has an act as small as a grain of a mustard seed, We will bring it to account, and sufficient are We to settle the accounts."

    The Holy Quran 16:111"The day will come when every soul will serve as its own advocate, and every soul will be paid fully for whatever it had done, without the least injustice."

    The Holy Quran 4:124."As for those who lead a righteous life, male or female, while believing, they enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice."

    The Holy Quran 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.






    You are fucking full of it. If you read those verses, it talks about MUSLIMS. Righteous male/females are MUSLIMS. Non muslims are disbelievers/not righteous. And the verse talking about the jews/sabians/christians refers to those that lived before Muhammad. When Muhammad came, you must believe in him.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #13 - April 17, 2009, 05:49 AM

    A link to QualiaSoup's channel, enjoy Afro
    http://www.youtube.com/user/QualiaSoup
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #14 - April 17, 2009, 10:41 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    Firstly, you are wrong, Hell in Islam is clearly for those who reject Islam.

    Secondly, even if if you try to spin it to mean Hell is only for those who reject belief in God - it is still an utterly disgusting concept.

    Thirdly even if you spin it to mean Hell is only for those who harm other human beings (and that is a spin too far) it is still an utterly disgusting concept.

    Don't you get it? Torturing someone forever - even if they are the worst criminal history has ever known - is not the act of a God - it is the act of a cruel, sadistic monster who will keep a creation of his alive just so he can be endlessly tortured.

    Hell is a fiction!

    It is the creation of men who lived hundreds of years ago.

    btw if you haven't seen my video on Hell - here it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPqLpgxPxfc

    Peace.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #15 - April 17, 2009, 10:58 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    Firstly, you are wrong, Hell in Islam is clearly for those who reject Islam.

    Secondly, even if if you try to spin it to mean Hell is only for those who reject belief in God - it is still an utterly disgusting concept.

    Thirdly even if you spin it to mean Hell is only for those who harm other human beings (and that is a spin too far) it is still an utterly disgusting concept.

    Don't you get it? Torturing someone forever - even if they are the worst criminal history has ever known - is not the act of a God - it is the act of a cruel, sadistic monster who will keep a creation of his alive just so he can be endlessly tortured.

    Hell is a fiction!

    It is the creation of men who lived hundreds of years ago.

    btw if you haven't seen my video on Hell - here it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPqLpgxPxfc

    Peace.

    Well put Hassan, I agree 100% yes I would not even subject Hitler to such a torturous punishment!

    Fear of hell prevented me from losing my faith, it kept me clinging to Islam. I hated the idea of hell when I was a muslim, I always wished that I could simply stop existing after death. I hated the idea of an afterlife. Even after I left Islam I still had the fear of hell looming over me and it took me several months to get over it.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #16 - April 17, 2009, 11:05 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    Firstly, you are wrong, Hell in Islam is clearly for those who reject Islam.



    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #17 - April 17, 2009, 11:16 AM


    Well put Hassan, I agree 100% yes I would not even subject Hitler to such a torturous punishment!

    Fear of hell prevented me from losing my faith, it kept me clinging to Islam. I hated the idea of hell when I was a muslim, I always wished that I could simply stop existing after death. I hated the idea of an afterlife. Even after I left Islam I still had the fear of hell looming over me and it took me several months to get over it.


    Yes, it is a nasty concept that really does do what it was designed to do!

    It's the old Pascal Wager syndrome - even if it is bollocks that tiny weeny chance of eternity of suffering is just not worth the risk - and heck we're all going to die and no-one knows what the fuck is waiting there on the other side etc etc...

    It is no coincidence that the two religions that believe in Hell are the most successful.



    It's a time-tested winning formula. It is also no coincidence that as belief in Hell has eroded in the West more and more people have left organised religion. But Muslims still have this fear of Hell - the Qur'an makes it very clear that Hell is a very real and terrible place - if it hadn't I suspect many would have eroded the belief in Hell in Islam too - but as with most things about Islam, it's edifice is that much harder to get around.

    If the Council of Ex-Muslims were ever able to run an ad campaign on London buses like Dawkins and crew - then we should have a huge poster with the simple bold words:

    "You are NOT going to Hell!"


  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #18 - April 17, 2009, 11:17 AM

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.

    Logic and Islam don't mix well.

    So, alll non-Muslims who come into contact with the perfect, enlightened religion of Islam have to convert to Islam, or else...?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #19 - April 17, 2009, 11:21 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    Firstly, you are wrong, Hell in Islam is clearly for those who reject Islam.



    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.



    Yes, AW, I can't think of any Muslim who would argue that those people who never knew about Islam would go to Hell.

    I was referring to those who have heard about Islam and reject it.

  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #20 - April 17, 2009, 11:23 AM

    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.


    According to Islam, there has been a warner sent to every people, and following the "misguided" religion of one's ancestors isn't an excuse.

    Quote
    "When some people are asked to follow the revelations of God, they say, "We would rather follow what our fathers have followed," even though their fathers had no understanding and could not find the true guidance."

    -al Baqara verse 170


    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #21 - April 17, 2009, 11:29 AM

    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.


    According to Islam, there has been a warner sent to every people, and following the "misguided" religion of one's ancestors isn't an excuse.



    There's a contradiction since the only warner to be followed is Mohammed.


    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #22 - April 17, 2009, 11:30 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    Firstly, you are wrong, Hell in Islam is clearly for those who reject Islam.



    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.



    Yes, AW, I can't think of any Muslim who would argue that those people who never knew about Islam would go to Hell.

    I was referring to those who have heard about Islam and reject it.




    And that would presumably include Jews and Christians living in Dhimmi lands, right?


    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #23 - April 17, 2009, 11:36 AM

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.

    Logic and Islam don't mix well.

    So, alll non-Muslims who come into contact with the perfect, enlightened religion of Islam have to convert to Islam, or else...?


    Or else.... rape, genocide, pedo, blood, bloodthirsty, headbutt, decapitation, cross-dressing, warlord, evil, dripping, super pedo, bloodcult.

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #24 - April 17, 2009, 11:40 AM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    Firstly, you are wrong, Hell in Islam is clearly for those who reject Islam.



    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.



    Yes, AW, I can't think of any Muslim who would argue that those people who never knew about Islam would go to Hell.

    I was referring to those who have heard about Islam and reject it.




    And that would presumably include Jews and Christians living in Dhimmi lands, right?




    Not necessarily. Being a protected minority under an Islamic State does not imply they will go to heaven.

    The crucial factor is whether they have heard about Islam - many Muslims Scholars would also stipulate that they would have to have not just 'heard' about it, but had it presented to them in a proper (whatever that means) manner.

    So a Christian or Jew living as a protected minority in an Islamic State who has heard about Islam (and had it presented to him 'properly' ) will still be regarded as going to Hell if he "rejects" it and refuses to become a Muslim.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #25 - April 17, 2009, 11:53 AM

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.

    Logic and Islam don't mix well.

    So, alll non-Muslims who come into contact with the perfect, enlightened religion of Islam have to convert to Islam, or else...?


    Or else.... rape, genocide, pedo, blood, bloodthirsty, headbutt, decapitation, cross-dressing, warlord, evil, dripping, super pedo, bloodcult.

    What an utterly insipid post. What are you trying to prove? That Allah the most compassionate, the most merciful doesn't dictate an eternal Hell for innocent non-Muslims?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #26 - April 17, 2009, 12:51 PM


    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.



    Indeed. Therefore isn't giving Dawah in itself a bad thing, since giving Dawah will cause more people to have contact with Islam, with the result that some people still do not accept Islam, and therefore end up in Hell.
    If there had been no Dawah, then everybody would have been ignorant, and nobody would have gone to Hell.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #27 - April 17, 2009, 01:38 PM


    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.



    Indeed. Therefore isn't giving Dawah in itself a bad thing, since giving Dawah will cause more people to have contact with Islam, with the result that some people still do not accept Islam, and therefore end up in Hell.
    If there had been no Dawah, then everybody would have been ignorant, and nobody would have gone to Hell.

    Interesting way of looking at it Smiley

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  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #28 - April 17, 2009, 03:57 PM

    fear of Hell is a very powerful factor in keeping people in religion and paralyzes their rational thinking. Personally it took me a very long time to shake this fear and I know how it can subconsciously  affect one's thinking.

    No Muslim will say they do this or that because they fear Hell - but it is there, even if it is hidden away. I remember when I told Ahmad Bahgat I couldn't believe in a cruel vindictive God that tortures his creation. He taunted me that it doesn't matter what I want to believe and I would burn in Hell regardless of what I want or think God should be like.

    That pretty much reflects most Muslims thinking - even if they don't admit it as plainly as Ahmad did - and even if they dress it up in convoluted philosophizing. God really is this scary, cruel, vicious and sadistic monster that will torture you if you don't obey.




    god made hell for those who harm other human, the fear of hell make us not to harm other human


    Firstly, you are wrong, Hell in Islam is clearly for those who reject Islam.



    What happens to those who died without having been in contact with Islam or Muslims? It would seem illogical for them to have to endure hell, which must mean that some non-muslims who lead righteous lives do not go to Hell.



    Yes, AW, I can't think of any Muslim who would argue that those people who never knew about Islam would go to Hell.

    I was referring to those who have heard about Islam and reject it.




    And that would presumably include Jews and Christians living in Dhimmi lands, right?




    Not necessarily. Being a protected minority under an Islamic State does not imply they will go to heaven.

    The crucial factor is whether they have heard about Islam - many Muslims Scholars would also stipulate that they would have to have not just 'heard' about it, but had it presented to them in a proper (whatever that means) manner.

    So a Christian or Jew living as a protected minority in an Islamic State who has heard about Islam (and had it presented to him 'properly' ) will still be regarded as going to Hell if he "rejects" it and refuses to become a Muslim.


    Thanks Hassan, who in your opinion does the oft-quoted verse refer to "Those who believe (Muslims), the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabeans - whosoever believes in God and the Last Day and do good deeds, theyshall have their reward from the Lord, and shall have nothing to fear, nor shall they come to grief"?

    Does this mean that non-muslims can also go to heaven?


    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #29 - April 17, 2009, 04:06 PM

    Probably. 

    It also means that I, as an atheist, am doomed to eternal torture for not believing in God and his Last Day, despite never having harmed a fly.  (Well, maybe the odd fly, but you know what I mean.)

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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