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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam

 (Read 22837 times)
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  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #120 - November 23, 2010, 01:06 AM

    It is interesting that this sufi idea seems to invert the typical mythological gender sense. Usually, from what I've seen of other mythologies, it is the feminine that is seen as the immanent and the totality of all reality and the masculine which is the transcendent principle, the lingam if you will, that drives this immanent reality. Why do you think sufism has inverted this relationship?

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #121 - November 23, 2010, 01:26 AM

    It is interesting that this sufi idea seems to invert the typical mythological gender sense. Usually, from what I've seen of other mythologies, it is the feminine that is seen as the immanent and the totality of all reality and the masculine which is the transcendent principle, the lingam if you will, that drives this immanent reality. Why do you think sufism has inverted this relationship?


    Ah, actually, you are correct: in general, the "Abrahamic" mystical schools (Kabbalah and Sufism) make the immanent principle feminine, with the masculine being transcendent. But it isn't so fixed: that's the point -- because, importantly, these schools place emphasis on our awareness that these cosmologies are still all a construct, a "hijab" or "garment". And so the relationship between masculine and feminine (or transcendence and immanence) is one of dependence -- like binary opposites that depend on each other and, in a sense, give birth to each other (a dialectic). And it is this dialectic that they focus on in their meditation -- not a naive yin/yang, but a fluid interdependence/becoming or, as the Qur'an says, a "garment for each other", according to the "garmenting" of language/conception/construction.

    That said, I believe the conception is identical to that of Tantric Hinduism and Tibetan Buddhism (the reason why all those Buddha statues are always pictured copulating). It's not a strict division, but one that is garmenting the other.

    L&L,

    TT

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #122 - November 23, 2010, 01:30 AM

    Ah fair enough. Perhaps that explains why it is that many sufi poets that I've read and listened to from Pakistan and India refer to themselves as female looking for a male lover (despite the overwhelming majority of them being male themselves).

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #123 - November 23, 2010, 09:20 AM

    Yes, that's a more or less standard understanding in Sufism, and I've also heard some amazing Urdu and also Malay poetry that plays with it ... It's their reading of what a "woman" is in the Qur'an: human perception ... And what a "wife" might be: a plane of immanence, where the "woman" is turned into a kind of mirror that reflects the light of the "husband" (prophecy) so that it infuses everything "she" sees in the world.

    And hence all the misogynist sounding verses are actually just directed at that process of "marrying" yourself to that light -- they are read to apply to men, just as well as women.

    TT

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #124 - November 23, 2010, 09:33 AM

    So, I downloaded and went through your gamebook. It was very interesting, and I suppose you are modelling it off of the quran?
    I may well be tempted to buy the full thing... Smiley

    When is your non-fiction book going to be available?

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #125 - December 03, 2010, 09:03 PM

    Okay, back to wives.

    If you ask any Hassidic Rabbi, for instance, he would tell you immediately that the Wife (and, for that matter, the Wives) that are present in the Torah are not meant to signify wives in daily marriage. This is simply common knowledge amongst the rabbis, and has been since the days of Muhammed's contact with Jewish Theology.

    What is the Wife in the Torah? I'm going to summarize quite inaccurately, as it does get quite complicated if we want to go deeper. But basically, the Wife means personal creativity. Any kind of creativity: writing a post on a forum, doing a painting, making a cup of tea, doing an equation.


    I have read your blog and that is a very interesting interpretation of verse 4:34. However, I must disagree, and follow one of the more up to date exegeses.

    You say the word "wife" means garment, but there is no etymological evidence to support this. It is the word "beat" that is wrongly interpreted.

    Allow me to offer the following exegesis:

    Latter day practitioners of the Sufic Arts, such as Micheal Jackson, has offered the key to understanding this verse.

    In his hit song "Beat it" Micheal sung a catchy tune encouraging people he was upset with to "just beat it". Now, he obviously was not speaking of physically hurting someone, he was telling them to "beat the sidewalk with their feet". In other words, "go away".

    So, the correct exegesis of verse 4:34 tells us as a last resort we should "leave them alone" or "beat it", and in no way does this verse sanction violence against women. We have no choice but to accept this explanation as the Quran is a book for all mankind at all times, and the exegeses of modern day Sufic Saints such as MJ must be respected.

    This is how modern day Quranic Scholar Aisha Bewley came up with her "tasfir" and translation of verse 4:34.
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #126 - December 05, 2010, 12:50 AM

    Allow me to offer the following exegesis:

    Latter day practitioners of the Sufic Arts, such as Micheal Jackson, has offered the key to understanding this verse.

    In his hit song "Beat it" Micheal sung a catchy tune encouraging people he was upset with to "just beat it". Now, he obviously was not speaking of physically hurting someone, he was telling them to "beat the sidewalk with their feet". In other words, "go away".

     Cheesy

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #127 - December 05, 2010, 08:22 PM

    You say the word "wife" means garment, but there is no etymological evidence to support this. It is the word "beat" that is wrongly interpreted.

    Allow me to offer the following exegesis: Latter day practitioners of the Sufic Arts, such as Micheal Jackson, has offered the key to understanding this verse.

    In his hit song "Beat it" Micheal sung a catchy tune encouraging people he was upset with to "just beat it". Now, he obviously was not speaking of physically hurting someone, he was telling them to "beat the sidewalk with their feet". In other words, "go away".

    So, the correct exegesis of verse 4:34 tells us as a last resort we should "leave them alone" or "beat it", and in no way does this verse sanction violence against women. We have no choice but to accept this explanation as the Quran is a book for all mankind at all times, and the exegeses of modern day Sufic Saints such as MJ must be respected.

    This is how modern day Quranic Scholar Aisha Bewley came up with her "tasfir" and translation of verse 4:34.


    I see you favour the more Persian/Shii Sufism of Michael Jackson.

    So I think we have to agree to disagree here, as my teachers all defer to the Naqshbandi Hound Dog silsilah. In our understanding, there is definitely a sexual aspect to the King's shariah: it is, after all, about male/female relationships. Not simply "going away", but a turning away from the Lilith archetype (see Yusuf's act of turning away or, even better, my psychosexual gamebook "The Rainbow Connection" available from fernmind.com).

    That is, the turning is a constraining of libido: because libido as Freud tells us is the nature of all perception/creation/speech/world construction.

    But it is important to emphasize: it's just poetry, gangsta rap, a dark and ugly turn of phrase, shock value. A very unpleasant trope. It is obsolete -- in fact, all the Qur'an was obsolete almost the moment it was penned, because no one gets this except a minority of Sufi. Anyway, it goes without saying to you people (as you are neither psychopaths nor Muslims), but absolutely not a way to treat your partner in real life. Why use such an ugly trope then? Because it isn't addressed to psychopaths (though is of course its current main audience in the temples). Because the Qur'an is an essentially useless and ineffective communication -- when considering the majority. Thankfully most Muslims never touch it, so don't even need to consider these finer points.

    There is a little King in every one of us, and a little Anne Margret: but it is important to understand who is boss. Apologies if that sounds sexist -- it is, but only microcosmically, because the verses apply identically (almost) for chicks (chicks with d*cks, if you'll pardon the vulgarity) as they do for dudes: it addresses the "King" aspect of our psyche, in relation to our perceptive/world view ("feminine" aspect).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zNMx1yavA

    I respect Brewley's position, but my Islam is not disco, but Rock. Real Rock.

    There is no Rock but Rock and the King is its Slave and Messenger.


    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #128 - December 05, 2010, 09:47 PM

    Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrzrsTtplzg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Dju6S9ARg

    ....Join Us in Unites States of Islam...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hyper-Salafism: the True Meaning of Islam
     Reply #129 - December 05, 2010, 10:35 PM

    "they are scared of our existence" Lmao thus spoke the super joker of united states of islam aka Senior Defense Analyst!
    It's lunatics like these ,who are responsible for the sorry state of affairs in Pakistan.
    Instead of being concerned about what's happening at home he has grand visions of playing the lead role in the Caliphate.He dreams about conquering nations too like in the good old days. What's worrying is the size of his audience.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
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