Child Cruelty Conviction Over Muslim Flogging

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- ned
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Child Cruelty Conviction Over Muslim Flogging
OP - April 26, 2009, 12:09 AM

A very interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUsEHKYF1fk

This leads me to wonder: has anybody conducted a proper psychological study of the long-term emotional effects of the self-flagellation that Shi'ites engage in on Ashura, on both children and adults? I have seen Ashura demonstrations "live" in Pakistan, but I never saw ones that were as violent and bloody as the ones in this video. I did see very small boys hitting themselves with chains, which I thought was extremely disturbing.
- allat
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Re: Child Cruelty Conviction Over Muslim Flogging
Reply #1 - April 26, 2009, 12:16 AM

I grew up with this shiite shite. Raised shia, part of Mo's very special family (not really according to him or he'd have left better instructions for them and his ummah before his unceremonious death).

We were told we are special, Mo's blood is in our blood and we will lead everyone on Qayyamat (judgement day). Of course we sat around 2 months of each year singing music-less songs of death and mourning, beating our chests in rhythmic harmony, wailing, weeping, crowds and crowds of people wailing, weeping, chanting, crying. As children, my cousins and I would be encouraged to compete to see who could make their chest bleed by doing hard matam, the repetitive self flagellation with our own palms.

The really devoted young men would do zanjeer matam. At public processions and in private backyards, blood would be all over the ground, people sharing the zanjeer (multiple knives on chains) many times.

Other men and young babies would do qama, hitting the HEAD with a SWORD.

The really devoted young women would walk barefeet on coals.

All to prove how much we love Mo's very special family.

I so wish I was making all this up.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- ned
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Re: Child Cruelty Conviction Over Muslim Flogging
Reply #2 - April 26, 2009, 12:20 AM

Wow, I can't believe you had to go through that. I grew up a Sunni but I had Shi'ite neighbors so I saw some of the matam ceremonies. I will admit I liked some of the chanting and found it quite beautiful, but I wish they didn't go insane and try to actually draw blood with the hitting. Why is Islam so obsessed with death and blood? The whole Ashura ceremony could have been a dignified ritual with appropriate music and dance as a form of respectful commemoration. That's what a gazillion other cultures and religions do. Instead they have to encourage violence and self-mutilation! Makes no sense to me.
- allat
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Re: Child Cruelty Conviction Over Muslim Flogging
Reply #3 - April 26, 2009, 12:34 AM

Quote from: ned on April 26, 2009, 12:20 AM
Wow, I can't believe you had to go through that. I grew up a Sunni but I had Shi'ite neighbors so I saw some of the matam ceremonies. I will admit I liked some of the chanting and found it quite beautiful, but I wish they didn't go insane and try to actually draw blood with the hitting. Why is Islam so obsessed with death and blood? The whole Ashura ceremony could have been a dignified ritual with appropriate music and dance as a form of respectful commemoration. That's what a gazillion other cultures and religions do. Instead they have to encourage violence and self-mutilation! Makes no sense to me.

I miss the communal singing, I miss the harmonies that my mother and aunts and cousins and I would recite at these events, that was the best part for me. I loved to sing.

And yes there are many better ways to commemorate one's ancestors. I was once talking to my very religious mom and I asked her why don't Shia's just donate blood instead of wasting it by flagellating themselves like some ancient cult of death. She said to me something like "oh yeah they do that too, but the matam is an emotional thing and a tradition". I was like, what??? Even if you believe in the story of Karbala (the story Shia's believe in literally and which is the reason they spend 2.25 months at the beginning of each Muslim year engaged in communal self-mutilation), even if you believe in that story, why wouldn't you want to commemorate it by doing positive things? Why wouldn't you want to HONOR the memory of your ancestors by doing good deeds that raise their impressions on the world? No, instead we all sat around beating the shit out of ourselves. LOL. So bloody effective.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- crueljewel
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Re: Child Cruelty Conviction Over Muslim Flogging
Reply #4 - April 26, 2009, 02:26 AM

Quote from: allat on April 26, 2009, 12:34 AM

I miss the communal singing, I miss the harmonies that my mother and aunts and cousins and I would recite at these events, that was the best part for me. I loved to sing.

You know when I moved on, the first thing I did was download a shit load of music! I love music and song of all kinds. Is there any place where I can hear some of what you're talking about here?
- allat
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Re: Child Cruelty Conviction Over Muslim Flogging
Reply #5 - April 27, 2009, 05:20 AM

Quote from: crueljewel on April 26, 2009, 02:26 AM
Quote from: allat on April 26, 2009, 12:34 AM
I miss the communal singing, I miss the harmonies that my mother and aunts and cousins and I would recite at these events, that was the best part for me. I loved to sing.

You know when I moved on, the first thing I did was download a shit load of music! I love music and song of all kinds. Is there any place where I can hear some of what you're talking about here?

If you search for "shia noha" or "shia marsia" in google or youtube, you will find many recordings. Hope you don't understand the language though... the lyrics are usually really... polemic and extremely overly emotional. You may enjoy the harmonies and melodies if you don't know what they're saying.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- crueljewel
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Re: Child Cruelty Conviction Over Muslim Flogging
Reply #6 - April 30, 2009, 03:13 AM

Quote from: allat on April 27, 2009, 05:20 AM

If you search for "shia noha" or "shia marsia" in google or youtube, you will find many recordings. Hope you don't understand the language though... the lyrics are usually really... polemic and extremely overly emotional. You may enjoy the harmonies and melodies if you don't know what they're saying.

Thanks, Allat. And, no, I won't be able to understand it.
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