Child Abuse

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- Pariah
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Child Abuse
OP - April 27, 2009, 09:57 PM

Hi,

Do you guys think religious indoctrination of children is a form of child abuse? It was interesting to see the way Richard Dawkins raised this issue in his documentary The Virus of Faith.

I think it is because it restricts freethought in children and instills fear on a very deep level. I still remember how when I was very young my parents told me how when we sleep, we're technically dead and if Allah in his mercy wants us to return to this world, then we wake up. This totally freaked me out and I couldn't sleep for ages. As a child this was a really terrifying experience for me.

Also, how unjust it is to make someone be part of a religion just because they are born into such a family and then they have no way of leaving it either.

So, discuss.

Pariah

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #1 - April 27, 2009, 10:02 PM

Indoctrination is child abuse, but I don't think teaching the child your faith is child abuse and on that point i disagree with Dawkins. As the parents of the child you know what is best for it.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #2 - April 27, 2009, 10:04 PM

Then teaching anything but absolute skepticism is child abuse!

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #3 - April 27, 2009, 10:06 PM

But he does have a point about labelling children with different religions and it does seem rather unfair on the child. I guess it depends on to what extent you teach your faith to your child? I would say I was indoctrinated as a child and I am sure my parents meant no harm, but with these religions, its not just about teaching right and wrong, but also that you cannot question or think for yourself. It's a complicated issue.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #4 - April 27, 2009, 10:08 PM

Yeah I was indoctrinated too.... At one time I was a member of HUT. I really believed in the literature of HUT. Maybe I might convert back to Islam, in the next 5 years I will have to live in an Islamic society I think I will go back to Islam.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #5 - April 27, 2009, 10:14 PM

I don't agree with Dawkins blanket statement about religion as child abuse, although I think in some cases it can be the reason for an abusive childhood.

This guy's story is an example of what I mean...

Quote
For me, the story of Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church is a very long and painful one. But the first time that the wider community became aware of them was in 1991, when my father led his church in Topeka, Kansas to stage a protest against gays at a local city park. Almost the entire membership of the church consists of 9 of my 12 siblings and members of their immediate families. The community reacted with outrage at the mean-spirited and hateful nature of the protest, and sentiments on both sides escalated quickly. However, far from discouraging my father, this incited him to much greater efforts at publicly protesting all that he decided was wrong. The church was soon staging dozens of protests every week, against local politicians, businesses, and citizens who dared to speak out against him and his church. But public protests weren?t enough. My father equipped his church with a bank of fax machines, and daily sent faxes to hundreds of machines across the city and state, filled with invective and diatribes against anyone who had offended him.

http://atheistnexus.org/page/nate-phelps-2009-aa-speech

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #6 - April 27, 2009, 10:16 PM

Dawkins fucked up on that, that kind of put me off when I was reading his book.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #7 - April 27, 2009, 10:17 PM

Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:16 PM
Dawkins fucked up on that, that kind of put me off when I was reading his book.

It didn't me, because I've no interest in finding a Holy Prophet whose every word I hang onto. Dawkins can be wrong about some things and still be worth reading.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #8 - April 27, 2009, 10:25 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on April 27, 2009, 10:17 PM
Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:16 PM
Dawkins fucked up on that, that kind of put me off when I was reading his book.

It didn't me, because I've no interest in finding a Holy Prophet whose every word I hang onto. Dawkins can be wrong about some things and still be worth reading.

Well I don't read books like that, if an expert shows a lack of intellect then I kind of avoid those books. For example if I read a book on astrophysics by Hawkins I expect that book to be accurate to a large extent, as I see as they are presenting scientific facts and not personal onions. With Dawkins and reading his other books, in my personal opinion: "the blind watchmaker" and "the Selfish gene" had more validity. I think the god delusion is overrated. Read those to books and you would become and atheist, I think the god delusional was a dumb down book for theists, or maybe even agnostics.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #9 - April 27, 2009, 10:28 PM

No, you 're confusing two different genres. The Selfish Gene et al, were science books, TGD is a polemic. I don't know about you but I don't need to agree with a polemic in order to enjoy reading it, in fact its almost more enjoyable if there's bits of it I disagree with.

I agree with you that its his weakest book, though.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #10 - April 27, 2009, 10:28 PM

Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:08 PM
Yeah I was indoctrinated too.... At one time I was a member of HUT. I really believed in the literature of HUT. Maybe I might convert back to Islam, in the next 5 years I will have to live in an Islamic society I think I will go back to Islam.

HUT? You mean HT/Hizb ut Tahrir? Sorry for going off topic here.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #11 - April 27, 2009, 10:30 PM

I haven't actually read the book, just watched the two documentaries. I find it an interesting concept and I believe in the same of extremely religious parents, they do to some extent abuse their child with the fear of this deity.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #12 - April 27, 2009, 10:33 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on April 27, 2009, 10:28 PM
No, you 're confusing two different genres. The Selfish Gene et al, were science books, TGD is a polemic. I don't know about you but I don't need to agree with a polemic in order to enjoy reading it, in fact its almost more enjoyable if there's bits of it I disagree with.

I agree with you that its his weakest book, though.

Yeah, but in the TGD there was for me personally nothing there that I did not know myself, and and some of Dwakins personally opinions I disagreed with. Yeah I kind of expected it to be like his other book.

By the way "Unweaving the Rainbow" was also a classic.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #13 - April 27, 2009, 10:35 PM

Quote from: Pariah on April 27, 2009, 10:28 PM
Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:08 PM
Yeah I was indoctrinated too.... At one time I was a member of HUT. I really believed in the literature of HUT. Maybe I might convert back to Islam, in the next 5 years I will have to live in an Islamic society I think I will go back to Islam.

HUT? You mean HT/Hizb ut Tahrir? Sorry for going off topic here.

Yes hizb ut ul-taharir.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #14 - April 27, 2009, 10:37 PM

Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Cheetah on April 27, 2009, 10:28 PM
No, you 're confusing two different genres. The Selfish Gene et al, were science books, TGD is a polemic. I don't know about you but I don't need to agree with a polemic in order to enjoy reading it, in fact its almost more enjoyable if there's bits of it I disagree with.

I agree with you that its his weakest book, though.

Yeah, but in the TGD there was for me personally nothing there that I did not know myself, and and some of Dwakins personally opinions I disagreed with. Yeah I kind of expected it to be like his other book.

By the way "Unweaving the Rainbow" was also a classic.

Unweaving the Rainbow is excellent. My favourite was The Ancestor's Tale though.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #15 - April 27, 2009, 10:39 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on April 27, 2009, 10:37 PM
Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Cheetah on April 27, 2009, 10:28 PM
No, you 're confusing two different genres. The Selfish Gene et al, were science books, TGD is a polemic. I don't know about you but I don't need to agree with a polemic in order to enjoy reading it, in fact its almost more enjoyable if there's bits of it I disagree with.

I agree with you that its his weakest book, though.

Yeah, but in the TGD there was for me personally nothing there that I did not know myself, and and some of Dwakins personally opinions I disagreed with. Yeah I kind of expected it to be like his other book.

By the way "Unweaving the Rainbow" was also a classic.

Unweaving the Rainbow is excellent. My favourite was The Ancestor's Tale though.

I've not read that. I might buy it.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #16 - April 27, 2009, 10:40 PM

Its expensive! And big. I just borrowed it from the local library.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #17 - April 27, 2009, 10:41 PM

Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:35 PM
Quote from: Pariah on April 27, 2009, 10:28 PM
Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:08 PM
Yeah I was indoctrinated too.... At one time I was a member of HUT. I really believed in the literature of HUT. Maybe I might convert back to Islam, in the next 5 years I will have to live in an Islamic society I think I will go back to Islam.

HUT? You mean HT/Hizb ut Tahrir? Sorry for going off topic here.

Yes hizb ut ul-taharir.

Ahh interesting. I was very much in love with them for some time and wasted few valuable years following them.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #18 - April 27, 2009, 10:46 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on April 27, 2009, 10:40 PM
Its expensive! And big. I just borrowed it from the local library.

I'll check my library, but I doubt it they'll have it, its over run by Islamic books.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #19 - April 27, 2009, 10:47 PM

Quote from: Pariah on April 27, 2009, 10:41 PM
Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:35 PM
Quote from: Pariah on April 27, 2009, 10:28 PM
Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 10:08 PM
Yeah I was indoctrinated too.... At one time I was a member of HUT. I really believed in the literature of HUT. Maybe I might convert back to Islam, in the next 5 years I will have to live in an Islamic society I think I will go back to Islam.

HUT? You mean HT/Hizb ut Tahrir? Sorry for going off topic here.

Yes hizb ut ul-taharir.

Ahh interesting. I was very much in love with them for some time and wasted few valuable years following them.

I applied to me back then, like the concept of a caliphate. I was only like 18.

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Re: Child Abuse
Reply #20 - April 27, 2009, 11:12 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on April 27, 2009, 10:37 PM
My favourite was The Ancestor's Tale though.

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