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Theme Changer

 Topic: How to map the multiverse

 (Read 4350 times)
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  • How to map the multiverse
     OP - May 04, 2009, 09:50 PM

    I love this stuff.  dance  Looks like the universe is getting bigger and more complicated all the time.

    How to map the multiverse

    BRIAN GREENE spent a good part of the last decade extolling the virtues of string theory. He dreamed that one day it would provide physicists with a theory of everything that would describe our universe - ours and ours alone. His bestselling book The Elegant Universe eloquently captured the quest for this ultimate theory.

    "But the fly in the ointment was that string theory allowed for, in principle, many universes," says Greene, who is a theoretical physicist at Columbia University in New York. In other words, string theory seems equally capable of describing universes very different from ours. Greene hoped that something in the theory would eventually rule out most of the possibilities and single out one of these universes as the real one: ours.

    So far, it hasn't - though not for any lack of trying. As a result, string theorists are beginning to accept that their ambitions for the theory may have been misguided. Perhaps our universe is not the only one after all. Maybe string theory has been right all along.

    Greene, certainly, has had a change of heart. "You walk along a number of pathways in physics far enough and you bang into the possibility that we are one universe of many," he says. "So what do you do? You smack yourself in the head and say, 'Ah, maybe the universe is trying to tell me something.' I have personally undergone a sort of transformation, where I am very warm to this possibility of there being many universes, and that we are in the one where we can survive."

    Greene's transformation is emblematic of a profound change among the majority of physicists. Until recently, many were reluctant to accept this idea of the "multiverse", or were even belligerent towards it. However, recent progress in both cosmology and string theory is bringing about a major shift in thinking. Gone is the grudging acceptance or outright loathing of the multiverse. Instead, physicists are starting to look at ways of working with it, and maybe even trying to prove its existence.

    If such ventures succeed, our universe will go the way of Earth - from seeming to be the centre of everything to being exposed as just a backwater in a far vaster cosmos. And just as we are unable to deduce certain aspects of Earth from first principles - such as its radius or distance from the sun - we will have to accept that some things about our universe are a random accident, inexplicable except in the context of the multiverse.

    <snip>

    Each form gives rise to a different vacuum of space-time, and hence a different universe - with its own vacuum energy, fundamental particles and laws of physics. The hope, nurtured by Greene and others, was that there was some kind of uniqueness principle that would pick out the particular form of space-time that produces our universe.

    That hope has since receded dramatically. In 2004, Michael Douglas of the State University of New York in Stony Brook, and Leonard Susskind of Stanford University surveyed the developments in string theory to date and concluded that all these theoretical varieties of space-time should be taken seriously as physical realities - that is, they point to a multiverse. Susskind coined the term "the landscape of string theory" to describe the 10500 or more different universes. Nothing in string theory suggests that any one of these universes is preferred over others. Rather, it appears all are equally likely.

    Complete article here. Well worth reading.

    The article points out ways of testing the multiple universe theory so we may soon (in a decade or so) have confirmation of it, assuming it is true of course. That would provide one more nail in the coffins of antiquated religions. None of them predicted this.  dance


    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #1 - May 05, 2009, 07:10 AM

    I would not be so sure.

    I bet somebody will dig out some obscure line out of some old religious text that, if you interpret certain archaic sentences in a certain way, will CLEARLY reveal that God was telling us that there are multiple universes  Cheesy

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #2 - May 05, 2009, 07:14 AM

    Then we can ask the buggers to write the equations. That'll stuff them. Grin

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #3 - May 05, 2009, 08:25 AM


    The article points out ways of testing the multiple universe theory so we may soon (in a decade or so) have confirmation of it, assuming it is true of course. That would provide one more nail in the coffins of antiquated religions. None of them predicted this.  dance




    Can't wait for the day. In a way the fundies are right... we are actually living in the end (of religion) times... the last throes of an antiquated human device that is dying and knows it. I don't think all forms of "spirituality" or "mysticism" will disappear, nor do they need to, in my opinion. But religion in the forms its been in during the past 5000 years (in particular anthropomorphic-mono-theism) is over. Islam is that kind of religion's last dance with mary jane. It is the most extreme version of monotheism and is a sign of the corruption and decay of the idea of religion itself. Whether it's through dilution of dogma, total apostacy or interfaith initiatives, there are more people headed away from anthropomorphic-mono-theism than there are headed towards it. And FoxNews just hates that.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #4 - May 05, 2009, 08:36 AM

    Fox who? Cheesy

    Yes I think the world is getting too complex for antiquated mindsets to deal with. It's more and more ridiculous every day. I remember one fundie pastor in the US ranting about how "we are being attacked by the educated, intelligent segments of society!"

    Well d'oh. Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #5 - May 06, 2009, 09:04 PM

    There was a BBC special about this a while ago, I think it was called "The Elegant Universe"


    edit:

    sorry, It was a Nova special on PBS

    part 1 of 7:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NWoxdJ1sIk



    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #6 - May 08, 2009, 03:31 AM

    I would not be so sure.

    I bet somebody will dig out some obscure line out of some old religious text that, if you interpret certain archaic sentences in a certain way, will CLEARLY reveal that God was telling us that there are multiple universes  Cheesy



    the Hindus are on top of it.

    http://www.gatewayforindia.com/articles/physics.htm

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #7 - May 08, 2009, 08:20 AM

    The article points out ways of testing the multiple universe theory so we may soon (in a decade or so) have confirmation of it, assuming it is true of course. That would provide one more nail in the coffins of antiquated religions. None of them predicted this.  dance

    Firstly, hello to all....

    I also find the subject interesting and Brian Greene one of my favourite authors. So thanks for drawing his latest thoughts to my attention.

    Personally I can't quite "see" it because I don't believe multiverses are even falsifiable, not withstanding what Max Tegmark claims. But then again I don't believe String Theory is falsifiable either.


    R
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #8 - May 08, 2009, 08:38 AM

    I have the book Elegant Universe by Greene it is awesome.
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #9 - May 08, 2009, 08:46 AM

    woohoo!  Brian Greene.

    That's one thing I see Hitchens come up against a lot, and he rarely gives a good response to it... the idea that the physics of our universe is so fine-tuned that we couldn't survive if one parameter was even just a little off.

    The principle is sort of... in a round container, jello becomes 'round', in a square container, it becomes square.  Likewise, in our universe life takes a form that can survive in it.  If it were another universe, with different parameters... life might form within those.  

    Then you might have a bunch of very different beings looking around thinking the exact same thing we are.

    Good find.
     
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #10 - May 08, 2009, 08:59 AM

    woohoo!  Brian Greene.

    That's one thing I see Hitchens come up against a lot, and he rarely gives a good response to it... the idea that the physics of our universe is so fine-tuned that we couldn't survive if one parameter was even just a little off.

    The principle is sort of... in a round container, jello becomes 'round', in a square container, it becomes square.  Likewise, in our universe life takes a form that can survive in it.  If it were another universe, with different parameters... life might form within those.  

    Then you might have a bunch of very different beings looking around thinking the exact same thing we are.

    Good find.
     

    I'm actually annoyed how successful the finely tuned universe argument really is, given the intellectual bankruptcy in the foundational pillars of the idea. It is foremost an argument from lack of imagination, amongst the myriad of failings.

    Haven't these people even heard of Bayesian statistics?

    R




  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #11 - May 08, 2009, 09:06 AM


    I'm actually annoyed how successful the finely tuned universe argument really is, given the intellectual bankruptcy in the foundational pillars of the idea. It is foremost an argument from lack of imagination, amongst the myriad of failings.

    Haven't these people even heard of Bayesian statistics?

    R







    I need to google!  hahaha
  • Re: How to map the multiverse
     Reply #12 - May 08, 2009, 09:08 AM

    I hadn't, but you don't even need them to know the fine tuning argument is bollocks.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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