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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?

 (Read 18791 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     OP - May 06, 2009, 09:30 PM

    Got referred to this website by my social worker for support, as I, too, am an 'apostate'. My reason being is that religion just didn't make sense to me, after examining Islamic texts, doctrines, speeches of Imams and manipulating parents.

    I am currently 15 and struggling to even slightly open up to others about the fact that, no, I am not a Muslim - and why should it matter? The society that I live in is not accepting of others who aren't Muslim; suspecting that we are 'untrustworthy' etc.

    But I remotely care about the above. My problem lies the issue regarding my parents. My father has threatened to kill me on many occasions; so has my mother, threatening to 'butcher' me. They force me into prayers and are extremely aggressive and narrow-minded to the prospect of people denying Islam, labeling them 'ignorant' and 'hell-fire'.

    I could just go on and on. I wouldn't like to bore you, though.

    Anyway - it's a welcome from me!  Smiley

    (Any advice is warmly appreciated.)
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #1 - May 06, 2009, 09:35 PM

    Got referred to this website by my social worker for support, as I, too, am an 'apostate'. My reason being is that religion just didn't make sense to me, after examining Islamic texts, doctrines, speeches of Imams and manipulating parents.

    I am currently 15 and struggling to even slightly open up to others about the fact that, no, I am not a Muslim - and why should it matter? The society that I live in is not accepting of others who aren't Muslim; suspecting that we are 'untrustworthy' etc.

    But I remotely care about the above. My problem lies the issue regarding my parents. My father has threatened to kill me on many occasions; so has my mother, threatening to 'butcher' me. They force me into prayers and are extremely aggressive and narrow-minded to the prospect of people denying Islam, labeling them 'ignorant' and 'hell-fire'.

    I could just go on and on. I wouldn't like to bore you, though.

    Anyway - it's a welcome from me!  Smiley

    (Any advice is warmly appreciated.)


    Awww your just a baby xx My advice to you is just go along with your family for now, untill your old enough to walk away. They other guys on here will give you better advice than me xx And you wont be boring anybody here, the people are quite understanding and everybody will help you in one way or another xxx Welcome xxx
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #2 - May 06, 2009, 09:39 PM

    Yeah man, the best thing to do is try to find some sort of a middle ground. You are still a child and rebelling would be counter productive. You don't have to tell your parents that you don't believe, but you don't have to be a practicing muslim. Just tell them that at this age, they cannot tell you to say your prayers and it is up to you now. And try to use evidence from Qur'an and Hadith as well whenever possible. They will be impressed by that and have no counter!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #3 - May 06, 2009, 09:42 PM

    Yeah man, the best thing to do is try to find some sort of a middle ground. You are still a child and rebelling would be counter productive. You don't have to tell your parents that you don't believe, but you don't have to be a practicing muslim. Just tell them that at this age, they cannot tell you to say your prayers and it is up to you now. And try to use evidence from Qur'an and Hadith as well whenever possible. They will be impressed by that and have no counter!


    Yeah, tell them that the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion. So its not compulsary to read namaz rite??
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #4 - May 06, 2009, 09:52 PM

    Got referred to this website by my social worker for support, as I, too, am an 'apostate'. My reason being is that religion just didn't make sense to me, after examining Islamic texts, doctrines, speeches of Imams and manipulating parents.

    I am currently 15 and struggling to even slightly open up to others about the fact that, no, I am not a Muslim - and why should it matter? The society that I live in is not accepting of others who aren't Muslim; suspecting that we are 'untrustworthy' etc.

    But I remotely care about the above. My problem lies the issue regarding my parents. My father has threatened to kill me on many occasions; so has my mother, threatening to 'butcher' me. They force me into prayers and are extremely aggressive and narrow-minded to the prospect of people denying Islam, labeling them 'ignorant' and 'hell-fire'.

    I could just go on and on. I wouldn't like to bore you, though.

    Anyway - it's a welcome from me!  Smiley

    (Any advice is warmly appreciated.)


    Awww your just a baby xx My advice to you is just go along with your family for now, untill your old enough to walk away. They other guys on here will give you better advice than me xx And you wont be boring anybody here, the people are quite understanding and everybody will help you in one way or another xxx Welcome xxx


    Yeah, I am trying to. It's getting extremely frustrating when they ask me to go to the mosque, fast (although can be cheated) and read the Qur'an (which I have undeniably read and profoundly disagree with). I don't mind standing for 5 minutes pretending to pray with my dad, however (although, obviously, it would be much better if I didn't have to pretend).
    This is affecting me because I have strong ideologies and beliefs which I hate to break for anyone. So it's a continuing combat between what I believe and yet have to break just because of my parent's tyrannical control!
    This may sound all like teenage-angst but it's making me angry.

    Thanks for the sweet reply though, thanks!
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #5 - May 06, 2009, 09:56 PM

    Don't worry about KK. She thinks everyone is a baby. Grin

    If your parents are that hardline I'd say the smart move (even if it pisses you off) is to play along with them until you have a good way out. That means waiting until you're legally old enough to leave home and have some sort of plan figured out. It will seem like forever but really I think it is the best option.

    Sounds to me that if you challenge them too directly they'll just get worse. If you do want to try and make them think by using Islamic sources that's fine, but I'd be taking it carefully to start with.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #6 - May 06, 2009, 09:56 PM

    Yeah man, the best thing to do is try to find some sort of a middle ground. You are still a child and rebelling would be counter productive. You don't have to tell your parents that you don't believe, but you don't have to be a practicing muslim. Just tell them that at this age, they cannot tell you to say your prayers and it is up to you now. And try to use evidence from Qur'an and Hadith as well whenever possible. They will be impressed by that and have no counter!


    Yeah, tell them that the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion. So its not compulsary to read namaz rite??


    Maybe.
    However my father (and my mother to some extent) will simply carry out the most 'convenient' thing to do, which is, according to them, "blind fold" me, "drug" me, and send me back to my (Islamic) country.
    Added onto all of this, my father is one of the most bigoted, genuinely annoying men that I have ever met. (And I am not confined at my home, so I've met quite a few people.  Tongue)
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #7 - May 06, 2009, 10:00 PM

    Oh and a couple of other things: if you are accessing this site from home make sure you clear all your browsing history whenever you log out. We also have a range of skins, some of which are not so blatantly un-Islamic. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #8 - May 06, 2009, 10:01 PM

    Don't worry about KK. She thinks everyone is a baby. Grin

    If your parents are that hardline I'd say the smart move (even if it pisses you off) is to play along with them until you have a good way out. That means waiting until you're legally old enough to leave home and have some sort of plan figured out. It will seem like forever but really I think it is the best option.

    Sounds to me that if you challenge them too directly they'll just get worse. If you do want to try and make them think by using Islamic sources that's fine, but I'd be taking it carefully to start with.


    Well, in that case, I am able to leave home "legally" in a month's time, which is when I turn 16. I am just worried whether this will be a bad move, even though freedom is all that I've always yearned for.
    Do you reckon that I should start 'planning' from now? I somehow believe that I could manage... (I can endure hardship [ironically, not spiritually] very well.)
    Thanks for the advice. I just require further guiding.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #9 - May 06, 2009, 10:04 PM

    Oh and a couple of other things: if you are accessing this site from home make sure you clear all your browsing history whenever you log out. We also have a range of skins, some of which are not so blatantly un-Islamic. Wink


    Haha, thanks for that. Although, admittedly, this is my own computer, password protected. My parents in any case are too unintelligent to hack into it; there really isn't a worry.
    The only issue that I have is that of gaining the courage to break this facade of religion that I've been hiding behind out of fear.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #10 - May 06, 2009, 10:04 PM


    Well, in that case, I am able to leave home "legally" in a month's time, which is when I turn 16. I am just worried whether this will be a bad move, even though freedom is all that I've always yearned for.
    Do you reckon that I should start 'planning' from now? I somehow believe that I could manage... (I can endure hardship [ironically, not spiritually] very well.)
    Thanks for the advice. I just require further guiding.


    If you are going to leave home, thing very carefully about it. Plan well ahead, know exactly what you are doing, where you are going, who you will tell and who you won't tell  where you are going, and what you are going to do for money. If you don't do it right, it could go massively wrong.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #11 - May 06, 2009, 10:07 PM

    I'm not familiar with UK law (I'm in Australia) but why "legally" in quote marks? I assume the age of legal majority is still 18 over there. Can you still leave even if your parents want to keep you there?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #12 - May 06, 2009, 10:12 PM

    I'm not familiar with UK law (I'm in Australia) but why "legally" in quote marks? I assume the age of legal majority is still 18 over there. Can you still leave even if your parents want to keep you there?


    I just put in it inside quotes to emphasise that it isn't the norm to do so. But yeah, one can legally leave home at 16 in spite of their parents wanting to keep them there, as they're legally adults.
    It's just a harder life for a 16-year-old to leave.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #13 - May 06, 2009, 10:15 PM

    Welcome to the forum - which country are you from?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #14 - May 06, 2009, 10:17 PM

    Don't worry about KK. She thinks everyone is a baby. Grin

    If your parents are that hardline I'd say the smart move (even if it pisses you off) is to play along with them until you have a good way out. That means waiting until you're legally old enough to leave home and have some sort of plan figured out. It will seem like forever but really I think it is the best option.

    Sounds to me that if you challenge them too directly they'll just get worse. If you do want to try and make them think by using Islamic sources that's fine, but I'd be taking it carefully to start with.


    Well, in that case, I am able to leave home "legally" in a month's time, which is when I turn 16. I am just worried whether this will be a bad move, even though freedom is all that I've always yearned for.
    Do you reckon that I should start 'planning' from now? I somehow believe that I could manage... (I can endure hardship [ironically, not spiritually] very well.)
    Thanks for the advice. I just require further guiding.


    You have a social worker dont you, if it is that hard and you genuinly feel they will drug you and take you abroad then you MUST tell her. She will take you out of your home for your own safety. She has a legal obligation to do that. xxxx
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #15 - May 06, 2009, 10:19 PM

    Welcome Ramadulla Smiley

    Your parents sound quite scary so I'm not sure if reasoning with them, telling them that you don't have to pray because there is no compulsion in religion, is the best advice to give. If you truly think it is, then go ahead but I'm 99% sure that you yourself will know that is a bad idea. I say I'm 99% sure because I have been in a situation similar to you. The only difference being very ironic indeed, and thinking about it sometimes makes me laugh, sometimes makes me cry. I converted to Islam when I was just a year younger than you and I went through hell to uphold my religion. I lived with my mother who was Roman Catholic and she didn't like Muslims or Asians much at all. My brother converted to Islam before me and my mother went crazy at him. She wouldn't speak to him for ages and when she finally did, she would still make malicious references to it when he was around. My brother's wife had a problem with her, at one point losing her temper saying she didn't want to be in the company of a racist. My mother left him out of her will and made a formal reason that stated she didn't want to leave him anything because he converted to Islam and changed his name. I knew she wouldn't take it kindly if I told her I was a Muslim.

    Whenever I asked Imaams and Muftisaabs what I should do they told me to be good to my mother but don't tell her that I was a Muslim. I'm not sure what the reason was but to be honest I'm glad I never told her, otherwise she would have died knowing I was Muslim and probably thinking her line in the family was going to become Muslim, since her only other offspring was my sister who has never had a kid and probably never will do. On the other hand, she definitely had her suspicions that I was Muslim. She made me eat ham whilst I was a Muslim at dinner once and I was crying my eyes out in front of her. She didn't ask why I was crying. It was a dead giveaway when I look back on it. Parents know their kids very well and that is something you should always remember. I always thought the advice my Imaams and Muftisaabs gave that I should "keep quiet and just bear it for now" was rubbish advice, but now I find myself in the same position giving the same advice to you.

    Although listening to your situation makes me feel very sad, I do think there is one advantage to being a non-Muslim in a strict Muslim family than being a non-Muslim in a strict Muslim family, and that is that there is nothing significant which a Muslim family requires of their non-Muslim child which their non-Muslim child is not allowed to do by their own conscience. For example, unless you have converted to another religion, it wouldn't be against your conscience to go into a mosque and pray. It might be against your conscience in the sense that you feel you are being hypocritical or deceitful, but the Muslim in the non-Muslim family bears the same shame. Eating halaal meat is not against the non-Muslim's conscience either.

    Can I ask, has your father threatened to kill you because he fears you might leave Islam? My mother threatened to kill me on occasion but not because she thought I was going to become a Muslim, but just to scare me, as I don't think she would have really done it. Do you feel your father might be the same?

    Either way, back to my point that your parents know you very well, better than you think. My mother asked me if I was a Muslim once. I was absolutely flabbergasted! I wasn't expecting that question to slap me in the face there and then. I lied to her. I knew I had to. But what amazed me was how calmly she asked the question, as if she wasn't going to do anything if I said yes. I have to admit, it was tempting to just tell her, since she seemed so calm. But deep down I knew she'd most probably have literally kicked me out of the house with her rubber boots, onto the street, shouting at me never to come back again, without concern for what her neighbours might think. If they ask you if your going to leave Islam, I suggest you tell them, no, unless your convinced they're not going to mind.

    It's very comforting to know that you have a social worker to support you. It's quite surprising to me that a social worker recommended this site... Is this site really that recognized?!?! I havn't been around long enough to find out, so it seems lol. I wonder if the administrators are surprised at all?

    Wanna share your thoughts on Islam with us?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #16 - May 06, 2009, 10:20 PM

    KK, I think it would be smarter to wait for a month. That way he can still have the backing of the social worker but there are no legal complications with age.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #17 - May 06, 2009, 10:21 PM

    OMG! lol when I was posting it said there has been 11 new replies.

    Not short of support from here, Ramadulla Smiley

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #18 - May 06, 2009, 10:23 PM

    Oh and a couple of other things: if you are accessing this site from home make sure you clear all your browsing history whenever you log out. We also have a range of skins, some of which are not so blatantly un-Islamic. Wink


    I was going to say that myself, good advice.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #19 - May 06, 2009, 10:25 PM

    It's very comforting to know that you have a social worker to support you. It's quite surprising to me that a social worker recommended this site... Is this site really that recognized?!?! I havn't been around long enough to find out, so it seems lol. I wonder if the administrators are surprised at all?


    [off-topic]

    Actually I am a bit surprised as this is the first time I've heard of this happening. We've only been in operation for a year and a half and it takes a while to build a solid base. I'm glad to hear that some social workers realise this site isn't quite as crazy as it sometimes appears to be.

    [/off-topic]  parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #20 - May 06, 2009, 10:28 PM

    Ramadulla, if you're 16 in a month it might be best to keep shtum for a month, and then talk to your social worker.  He/she can help you with accommodation, college places, benefits and all the rest of the things you will be entitled to at that stage.  If you speak up now it'll be a case of putting you in care or something.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #21 - May 06, 2009, 10:30 PM

    Don't worry about KK. She thinks everyone is a baby. Grin

    If your parents are that hardline I'd say the smart move (even if it pisses you off) is to play along with them until you have a good way out. That means waiting until you're legally old enough to leave home and have some sort of plan figured out. It will seem like forever but really I think it is the best option.

    Sounds to me that if you challenge them too directly they'll just get worse. If you do want to try and make them think by using Islamic sources that's fine, but I'd be taking it carefully to start with.


    Well, in that case, I am able to leave home "legally" in a month's time, which is when I turn 16. I am just worried whether this will be a bad move, even though freedom is all that I've always yearned for.
    Do you reckon that I should start 'planning' from now? I somehow believe that I could manage... (I can endure hardship [ironically, not spiritually] very well.)
    Thanks for the advice. I just require further guiding.


    You have a social worker dont you, if it is that hard and you genuinly feel they will drug you and take you abroad then you MUST tell her. She will take you out of your home for your own safety. She has a legal obligation to do that. xxxx


    If the social worker takes legal action whilst she is still a minor, then his/her parents could win the battle and find out that their son/daughter has left Islam.

    I'm also unsure when is the age when someone no longer is a minor. I know I was looking forward towards my 16th birthday so that I could leave home legally, but I just assumed that it was 16, it might be 18.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #22 - May 06, 2009, 10:33 PM

    No, its 16 J4M3S, and if there are family issues the local council are obliged to find some kind of accommodation with housing benefit and other benefits depending on whether he's in full time education or not. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #23 - May 06, 2009, 10:35 PM

    Got referred to this website by my social worker for support, as I, too, am an 'apostate'. My reason being is that religion just didn't make sense to me, after examining Islamic texts, doctrines, speeches of Imams and manipulating parents.

    I am currently 15 and struggling to even slightly open up to others about the fact that, no, I am not a Muslim - and why should it matter? The society that I live in is not accepting of others who aren't Muslim; suspecting that we are 'untrustworthy' etc.

    But I remotely care about the above. My problem lies the issue regarding my parents. My father has threatened to kill me on many occasions; so has my mother, threatening to 'butcher' me. They force me into prayers and are extremely aggressive and narrow-minded to the prospect of people denying Islam, labeling them 'ignorant' and 'hell-fire'.

    I could just go on and on. I wouldn't like to bore you, though.

    Anyway - it's a welcome from me!  Smiley

    (Any advice is warmly appreciated.)


    Welcome, Ramadulla - are you living in the UK?

  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #24 - May 06, 2009, 10:43 PM

    I can see some have already said what I was going to say - basically if there is the slightest danger to you by saying you don't believe in Islam then keep it quiet for now. I know it may be hard, but it would be best to keep your head down and concentrate on your education and future. Once you are older and more independent it will be easier to be true to your conscience. For now I advise just keeping tings cool. This forum can be an outlet for you if you like - but make sure you log out and perhaps clear history etc...

    Welcome again Smiley
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #25 - May 06, 2009, 10:44 PM

    Hi Ramadulla,

    I think the advice given by previous users is good. It may be very tempting just to up and leave now but you may want to think about the legal implications that may have on you. Here is something I have found which maybe of benefit to you:

    ''Other young people leave home because their family is splitting up, or there may be serious, insurmountable problems such as physical or sexual abuse. There are several options, but a lot depends on exactly how old you are:

        * If over 18 you can decide yourself when to leave home - your parents have no legal control over you. If homeless, the local authority may have a duty to house you. Contact them for the relevant information.
        * If you are 16 or 17 you can still leave home if your parents give their consent or if you get married (again with your parents' consent)
       * If you are 16 or 17 and leave home without consent you can be reported to the police as 'missing'. If you are safe, the police are generally reluctant to get involved, but may ask other agencies to play a part.
        * If 16 or 17 and homeless, the social services department have a duty to provide you with accommodation if they feel you will suffer more without it. If you cannot return home and ask social services to help, they have an obligation to find you accommodation.
        * If you leave home aged under 16, your parents are still legally responsible for you. You could stay with another adult if he or she can obtain a legal residence order, but that's only if there is a clear reason why you can't return home. This is a complex area of law and you will need to seek help from a housing advice centre.

        * If under 16 you're still legally obliged to attend school, you cannot claim benefits or work full-time. Consequently, many young people in this situation end up sleeping on the streets and are very vulnerable.''

    http://www.youthinformation.com/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=90596

    I also recommend you check out the website by the charity Shelter: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/finding_a_place_to_live/leaving_home/permission_to_leave_home

  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #26 - May 06, 2009, 10:48 PM

    KK, I think it would be smarter to wait for a month. That way he can still have the backing of the social worker but there are no legal complications with age.


    No hun, there will be no complications with his age. The local authorty will overide and parental rights his parents have and they will put him in foster care or in an adolesant unit. If he believes his life is genuinley in danger they can do it immediately. (I work for CHAMS, I know lol)
    Also, waiting a month is no good, hes under legal guardianship of his parents till hes 18, 21 if hes in full time further education. The "16" thing just means he can claim income support for himself if hes living alone.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #27 - May 06, 2009, 10:50 PM

    So it's 18...

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #28 - May 06, 2009, 10:53 PM

    So it's 18...


    18 or 21, buh still.. its not gonna b in 1 months time is it
  • Re: Why are some Muslims so stubborn?
     Reply #29 - May 06, 2009, 10:54 PM

    KK, I think it would be smarter to wait for a month. That way he can still have the backing of the social worker but there are no legal complications with age.

    No hun, there will be no complications with his age. The local authorty will overide and parental rights his parents have and they will put him in foster care or in an adolesant unit. If he believes his life is genuinely in danger they can do it immediately. (I work for CHAMS, I know lol)

    Also, waiting a month is no good, hes under legal guardianship of his parents till hes 18, 1 if hes in full time further education. The "16" thing just means he can claim income support for himself if hes living alone.

    I think in practice it isn't going to be what he thinks. It'll be what he can convince the social services of. That's an entirely different matter.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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