So...why can't Islam be gay?

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So...why can't Islam be gay?
OP - May 11, 2009, 07:46 PM

I'm wondering if there is anything in the "holy" books against it....not all the additional books...but the main books, the Quraan and Ahadith. I do not know what the Sunna is....or if it belongs in the "holy" book group.

Anyway, let's not include the Sunna....just the two books. Is there anything in these against homosexuality? Also....is there anything in these that that suggest homosexuality as positive thing? Something about pearly-eyed boys? And if you're a Muslim, why do you care what any other "Islamic" books say? They weren't written by the prophet or anyone that knew him.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #1 - May 11, 2009, 07:50 PM

P.S., furthermore....I would think that adding books to your "holy" books would be akin to adding Thomas Aquinas to our Christian holy book. In a Christian's case, that would be anathema....literally.

Now, back to the topic. Why can't Islam be gay?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #2 - May 11, 2009, 08:00 PM

Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 07:46 PM
Anyway, let's not include the Sunna....just the two books.

Oh Shaneequa...
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #3 - May 11, 2009, 08:03 PM

Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 07:50 PM
Why can't Islam be gay?

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10050/homosexuality

What is mentioned concerning these actions in the Qur?aan and Sunnah:

A ? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)??

[al-A?raaf 7:80-81]

B ? ?Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Loot (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the night?

[al-Qamar 54:34 ? interpretation of the meaning]

C ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)??

[al-A?raaf 7:80 ? interpretation of the meaning]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?You commit Al‑Faahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)??

[al-?Ankaboot 29:28]

D ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practised Al‑Khabaa?ith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)?

[al-Anbiya? 21:74 ? interpretation of the meaning]

E ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot)! When he said to his people, ?Do you commit Al‑Faahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen)

Do you practise your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.?

There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ?Drive out the family of Loot (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!?

So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.

And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned?

[al-Naml 27:54-58 ? interpretation of the meaning]

These verses refer to the punishment that befell the people of Loot. With regard to the rulings on them:

F ? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning]:

?And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent (promise Allaah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allaah is Ever All-Forgiving (the One Who forgives and accepts repentance), (and He is) Most Merciful?

[al-Nisa? 4:16]
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #4 - May 11, 2009, 08:04 PM

I don't know anything about the Sunna. Is that considered sacred too?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #5 - May 11, 2009, 08:06 PM

Hey, Shan - can Christianity be Gay?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #6 - May 11, 2009, 08:07 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 08:03 PM
Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 07:50 PM
Why can't Islam be gay?

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10050/homosexuality

What is mentioned concerning these actions in the Qur?aan and Sunnah:

A ? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)??

[al-A?raaf 7:80-81]

B ? ?Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Loot (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the night?

[al-Qamar 54:34 ? interpretation of the meaning]

C ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)??

[al-A?raaf 7:80 ? interpretation of the meaning]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?You commit Al‑Faahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)??

[al-?Ankaboot 29:28]

D ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practised Al‑Khabaa?ith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)?

[al-Anbiya? 21:74 ? interpretation of the meaning]

E ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot)! When he said to his people, ?Do you commit Al‑Faahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen)

Do you practise your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.?

There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ?Drive out the family of Loot (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!?

So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.

And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned?

[al-Naml 27:54-58 ? interpretation of the meaning]

These verses refer to the punishment that befell the people of Loot. With regard to the rulings on them:

F ? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning]:

?And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent (promise Allaah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allaah is Ever All-Forgiving (the One Who forgives and accepts repentance), (and He is) Most Merciful?

[al-Nisa? 4:16]

Okay. That's pretty clear. Thank you.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #7 - May 11, 2009, 08:07 PM

Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 08:04 PM
I don't know anything about the Sunna. Is that considered sacred too?

You said let's ignore the Sunna and then said just the two... oh forget it Shan
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #8 - May 11, 2009, 08:16 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 08:07 PM
Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 08:04 PM
I don't know anything about the Sunna. Is that considered sacred too?

You said let's ignore the Sunna and then said just the two... oh forget it Shan

That's okay. You already proved it with the quraan. If I were a Muslim, that would be the ultimate book in order to prove something to me. Also, if I were a Muslim, I'd be quraan-only.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #9 - May 11, 2009, 08:47 PM

So Shan - you ignored my question - that's a bit rude really.

Particularly as I have gone to the trouble of finding the answers for you.

Can Christians be Gay?

(If not) Why not?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #10 - May 11, 2009, 08:58 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 08:47 PM
So Shan - you ignored my question - that's a bit rude really.

Particularly as I have gone to the trouble of finding the answers for you.

Can Christians be Gay?

(If not) Why not?

Oh. I didn't see the question. The answer is no. Your quran already explained part of it in Lut....but the bible has way more verses than that. I like to take gay people straight to Romans 1, because it is new testament:

Ro:1:18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Ro:1:19: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Ro:1:20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Ro:1:21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Ro:1:22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Ro:1:23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Ro:1:24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Ro:1:25: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro:1:26: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Ro:1:27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Ro:1:28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Ro:1:29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Ro:1:30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Ro:1:31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Ro:1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #11 - May 11, 2009, 09:00 PM

Thanks San. What will happen to Gay people in the next life according to Christianity?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #12 - May 11, 2009, 09:27 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 08:03 PM
Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 07:50 PM
Why can't Islam be gay?

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10050/homosexuality

What is mentioned concerning these actions in the Qur?aan and Sunnah:

A ? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)??

[al-A?raaf 7:80-81]

B ? ?Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Loot (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the night?

[al-Qamar 54:34 ? interpretation of the meaning]

C ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)??

[al-A?raaf 7:80 ? interpretation of the meaning]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?You commit Al‑Faahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)??

[al-?Ankaboot 29:28]

D ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practised Al‑Khabaa?ith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)?

[al-Anbiya? 21:74 ? interpretation of the meaning]

E ? ?And (remember) Loot (Lot)! When he said to his people, ?Do you commit Al‑Faahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen)

Do you practise your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.?

There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ?Drive out the family of Loot (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!?

So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.

And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned?

[al-Naml 27:54-58 ? interpretation of the meaning]

These verses refer to the punishment that befell the people of Loot. With regard to the rulings on them:

F ? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning]:

?And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent (promise Allaah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allaah is Ever All-Forgiving (the One Who forgives and accepts repentance), (and He is) Most Merciful?

[al-Nisa? 4:16]

Ok, this is interesting. All those contain is a rant against practicing "your lusts on men instead of women". So really there isn't anything against lesbians there, only against gay males.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #13 - May 11, 2009, 09:48 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on May 11, 2009, 09:27 PM
Ok, this is interesting. All those contain is a rant against practicing "your lusts on men instead of women". So really there isn't anything against lesbians there, only against gay males.

Lesbians?

No such thing!
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #14 - May 11, 2009, 09:50 PM

So Shan, just want to be clear what you believe. What will happen to Gay people in the next life according to (your version of) Christianity?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #15 - May 11, 2009, 10:02 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 09:48 PM
Quote from: osmanthus on May 11, 2009, 09:27 PM
Ok, this is interesting. All those contain is a rant against practicing "your lusts on men instead of women". So really there isn't anything against lesbians there, only against gay males.

Lesbians?

No such thing!

Sounds like Queen Victoria. Seriously, there is a point here. Is there any scriptural basis in Islam for knocking female homosexuals?

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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #16 - May 11, 2009, 10:28 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 09:00 PM
Thanks San. What will happen to Gay people in the next life according to Christianity?

...same thing that happens to other sinners. They will be thrown in the lake of fire. I do not like it, but it is what the bible says. And just so you know, a Christian isn't better than anyone else. We all deserve hell.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #17 - May 11, 2009, 10:32 PM

BTW, this is pregnant with meaning...quite literally:

"?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?"

I'm going to look for a King James book of Enoch, if anyone is interested. (like a pdf).
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #18 - May 11, 2009, 10:35 PM

Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 10:28 PM
Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 09:00 PM
Thanks San. What will happen to Gay people in the next life according to Christianity?

...same thing that happens to other sinners. They will be thrown in the lake of fire. I do not like it, but it is what the bible says. And just so you know, a Christian isn't better than anyone else. We all deserve hell.

So Christians deserve hell but get out of it by giving a narcissist God the pleasure of recognising him and his son as their Lord?

That makes as much sense as a steak house in India.

1) How does God benefit by Christians accepting him and therefore he rewards them with heaven
2) If Christians really are no better than anyone else, how do they benefit from accepting Christ and being put in heaven? Basically they are better than others because they are recognising that they are also sinners and asking the Lord to help them, ergo better.
3) Why would God choose people who are all the same (according to your statement of Christians being no differant) and make a distinction on the basis of a meaningless (because it doesn't make Christians better than others-according to you) label?
4) Why can't you see how absurd this all sounds?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #19 - May 11, 2009, 10:48 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on May 11, 2009, 10:02 PM
Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 09:48 PM
Quote from: osmanthus on May 11, 2009, 09:27 PM
Ok, this is interesting. All those contain is a rant against practicing "your lusts on men instead of women". So really there isn't anything against lesbians there, only against gay males.

Lesbians?

No such thing!

Sounds like Queen Victoria. Seriously, there is a point here. Is there any scriptural basis in Islam for knocking female homosexuals?

Now you mention it, I don't really know.

I mean I know the popular belief is that it's all Haram - but I am not sure what the scriptural evidence is - if any.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #20 - May 11, 2009, 10:51 PM

Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 10:28 PM
Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 09:00 PM
Thanks San. What will happen to Gay people in the next life according to Christianity?

...same thing that happens to other sinners. They will be thrown in the lake of fire. I do not like it, but it is what the bible says. And just so you know, a Christian isn't better than anyone else. We all deserve hell.

Why do you deserve Hell?

I fully understand that God can create you and do whatever he likes with you - but how is it that you "deserve" Hell?

What possible, unspeakable act have you done that would make it fitting and just that you should have your brain boiled and skin roasted for all eternity?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #21 - May 11, 2009, 10:53 PM

Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 10:32 PM
BTW, this is pregnant with meaning...quite literally:

"?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?"

I'm going to look for a King James book of Enoch, if anyone is interested. (like a pdf).

Why is it a sin, Shan?
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #22 - May 11, 2009, 10:55 PM

Let's try this again: Does this song remind you of anything?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-ax-0rOaOs
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #23 - May 11, 2009, 10:55 PM

Quote from: Astaghfirullah on May 11, 2009, 10:35 PM
4) Why can't you see how absurd this all sounds?

Yes, Shan - why can't you see how absurd it all is?

You seem like a sweet person and all - and I don't want you to think I hate you or anything - but you seem to be completely off your rocker.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #24 - May 11, 2009, 10:57 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 10:51 PM
Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 10:28 PM
Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 09:00 PM
Thanks San. What will happen to Gay people in the next life according to Christianity?

...same thing that happens to other sinners. They will be thrown in the lake of fire. I do not like it, but it is what the bible says. And just so you know, a Christian isn't better than anyone else. We all deserve hell.

Why do you deserve Hell?

I fully understand that God can create you and do whatever he likes with you - but how is it that you "deserve" Hell?

What possible, unspeakable act have you done that would make it fitting and just that you should have your brain boiled and skin roasted for all eternity?

You'll end up the same place you ended up with that rayback lad-nowhere

It's impossible to ask a religious person for a justification of what their God says if it makes no sense. Hell is one of the things that keeps Christians and Muslims up at night worrying about their friends, families and neighbours who don't believe. It is one of the things they all admit to struggling with, that's why they go the extra mile to justify it or conversely, they avoid the topic at all costs.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #25 - May 11, 2009, 10:58 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 10:55 PM
Quote from: Astaghfirullah on May 11, 2009, 10:35 PM
4) Why can't you see how absurd this all sounds?

Yes, Shan - why can't you see how absurd it all is?

You seem like a sweet person and all - and I don't want you to think I hate you or anything - but you seem to be completely off your rocker.

I know.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #26 - May 11, 2009, 11:47 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2009, 10:53 PM
Quote from: Shaneequa on May 11, 2009, 10:32 PM
BTW, this is pregnant with meaning...quite literally:

"?And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ?Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ?Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?"

I'm going to look for a King James book of Enoch, if anyone is interested. (like a pdf).

Why is it a sin, Shan?

I'm going to look for the bible verse. This surah is talking about something that went on besides homosexuality. The bible says it better. I need to find the verse.
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #27 - May 11, 2009, 11:54 PM

Hassan,

Here's the verse:

Ge:6:2: That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Ge:6:3: And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Ge:6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Yes. I know what it sound like.

For further explanation, the book of Enoch is an interesting read. It' extra-biblical....but it's interesting.

The Quraan puts it in the days of Lot....the bible calls it "as in the days of Noah".
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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #28 - May 12, 2009, 12:01 AM

Shan, where does that mention homosexuality?

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Re: So...why can't Islam be gay?
Reply #29 - May 12, 2009, 01:10 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on May 12, 2009, 12:01 AM
Shan, where does that mention homosexuality?

It doesn't. This is a different thing.
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