Hello everyone!
I am not going to begin a post with "I'm quitting," because in case I do not, its poor forum etiquette to announce such intentions. However, I do not believe in being dishonest about my opinions or stating stuff that I do not believe in. There've been quite a few posters who've said that I over react, my new turn of mind makes them disappointed, scared etc-so I do feel that I need to be upfront about what I do & do not believe in. I would like it, of course, if I am respected & accepted with all my opinions, but in case I am not, I don't think its good to pretend because I honestly value you guys, this forum & the friendships that I've formed here too much to be dishonest just for the sake of being appreciated.
First of all, when I spoke of understanding the fears of those who're skeptical of Islam- I did not mean, nor do I intend to sympathise with the White supremacists, those who feel that U.K., U.S.A. or any other region strictly has & should continue having one culture & one religious heritage,the fundie Christians who feel all other faiths are unacceptable, the racists or any other people with extremist agendas. I do not sympathise with those who dislike the Arabic or Turkish language, other skin colors, other places of worship on their streets,other cuisines & so forth any more than I sympathise with those who would seek to enforce Shariah. These people really need to change their outlooks.
I did & do mean those who have a dislike restricted to Islam & fears of extremist Islam & I'm not apologetic about that opinion. Again its not true, as some have implied, that I have no idea of what I am speaking about because I have to rely on news agencies-I don't suppose aliadiere has much more idea of Israel apart from news agencies too, but thats' beside the point. I have been to Britain, more than once, my aunt-Adil's mom & her family lived there for years & only moved back to India a year back when Adil's paternal grandpa passed away to look after the family business.Adil is 8 years older to me, he was about 21 when he left Britain. I have lived in her house more than one summer vacation, for about four months of my life. I've seen my cousin Adil, he's honest about the desire of wanting Shariah for British Muslims-an idea he apparently shares with 40% young Brits, supports compulsory veiling in Islamic nations, thinks blasphemy ought ot be punishable etc. And I've seen others with similar views.
Also, my experiences might be limited, so are everyone else's on Earth. I remember someone remarking on this forum that if Rushdie's developed some Islamophobic tendencies, there might be valid reasons in his case, similarly I think that for loads of people globally, there're pretty good reasons to develop some such tendencies-& Islamic discriminatory laws, terrorist attacks followed by conspiracy theories which negate the pain of the dead & mutilated & their dear ones-are contributary factors.
I have also seen people living in Britain who aren't Whites, nor racists or religious bigots, but who nevertheless dislike Islam. The only Fire Temple of Europe is located in London-I've been there, met many Zoroastrians, many of them come from Iran. For these people-they don't believe in wearing a headscarf or full sleeved clothes-either for religious or morality reasons-so such a law imposed by the Islamic Republic in Iran meant for them accepting a lie, participating in a lie, living a lie. The same is true for Iranian Bahais.These people in all probability aren't White supremacists-coz they aren't White, I don't think they hope to convert Europe or the world to their faith or their culture-especially not Zoroastrians, but their dislike is based on very real reasons.
I'm not even going into the restrictions placed on proselytization or conversion in Iran-but the situation isn't very pleasant in a significant number of Islamic nations. In Malaysia- a Muslim can only apostasise with great legal difficulty & anyone marrying a Muslim is obliged to convert to Islam.Its the same situation in Dubai & many other places. If Muslims in Singapore don't have such laws as Malaysia does, its not because they're a whole lot liberal, its simply because they don't have the numerical strength to enforce their opinion, rather like Prophet Muhammad lacked such ability in his early years of preaching.
Also, I don't think these stuff can simply be dismissed as "We all know the laws are different in Muslim countries." If the laws are different-its because the Muslims enforce & continue to retain such discriminatory laws. I don't suppose every Muslim who migrates out of nations with such discriminatory laws is a born again liberal, most are like the people who remain behind in Islamic nations. I'm not accusing anyone's family & friends here just like if I claim that U.S.A. in 1950 was racist isn't accusing any individual elderly American's family & friends. Indeed, enough has happened in Europe to give people such a fear & impression. There have been innumerable terrorist attacks in Algeria by Algerian Islamists, there's been a terrorist attack in Paris about a decade back, there's been terrorist acts in Pak, there's been sucessful & attempted attacks by Muslims of Pakistani origin in U.K., attacks in Madrid, in Netherlands etc. There're blasphemy laws in many Islamic nations, after the cartoon incident, Muslims marched out in droves with slogans of beheading, killing & butchering.
Even on our forum, we've had people like Baal who really isn't a racist, who's fond of Chinese food, his Chinese boss, other aspects of multiculturalism. If he had a very bad time in Egypt & he's witnessed such incidents in Europe & his birthplace of Egypt(much of it on media, like I have-no human possess the ability to know everything firsthand), its obvious that some people will develop an antipathy. Its not really fair, nor true to label all such folks monoculturalists or raical\religious bigots. I have lurked on another forum, although I never posted. In that particular forum, not an FFI-JW type one, there was a Dutch man who was irreligious but disliked Islam much more than other faiths, he was an ex Catholic & he'd written something to the effect of, "I ditched my Catholic faith when I realised what garbage was there in the OT," & readily admitted that the OT was as bad as the Quran. But he was especially critical of Islam, its unneccessary demands etc. He also had a wife of African origin, so its not possible to consider him either a racist bigot or an evangelist. I used to lurk there for many months & this man was really regular. Out here, brucepig too isn't in all probability a racist, he doesn't come across at all like that in any posts, he dislikes aspects of the Bible & I remember him saying on a thread that Buddhism had superceded OT morality long before Jesus, also he said Moses was a very immoral man-he too dislikes Islam.
I'm very aware that there are plenty of those who oppose Islam who can well be termed both White supremacists as well as well as Christian supremacists or evangelists, but its an erronous assumption to label all those who dislike Islam as such-thats' just like the Muslim statement that all those who dislike Islam are Jews- or even reformists like Ataturk was a Jew!
Many non Muslims who hail from Muslim nations or have visited such nations have seen how their rights are limited in those nations-I do agree that the majority of Muslims are decent law abiding folks, but unfortunately its a present reality that in many cases when a nation is full of Muslims, the rights of apostasy, intermarriage & sometimes even clothing gets legally restricted.
Again, I repeat, I am not accusing or slandering anyone's friends & family here & I absolutely do not endorse or support any programmes of mass surveillance & deportation, nor do I support the idea of ridiculing & belittling anyone because of their faith or lack thereof-& this is true for Muslims just like anyone else.The next issue was that many dislike not only how Islam is practiced, but slandered the faith & its Prophet too & that quite a few people are dogmatically anti Islam. There are a few good stuff in Islamic theology like banning killing baby girls, a few good stuff in its history like the stories of Arabian Nights & good translation(& some innovation) skills, & a few good stuff in the faith in the present day like the lower(reported?) AIDS rates in many African Muslim nations, due to acceptance of condoms. Here, I won't incluse nations which stone like Somalia, because I don't think its any great achievement to keep AIDS rates down, if stoning is one deterrant to sex, but countries like Senegal & Mali certainly qualify.
But here again the unfortunate fact remains that there's really no reason to adore Islam, especially in light of the grandoise claims it makes on the world. Islam is the only faith, along with Christianity, which claims that I will go to Hell for Eternity if I don't accept it as true. It claims that all of us are actually born Muslims & we simply "revert" to Islam, when we convert to Islam. It divides the world into two- a Dar ul Islam & a Dar ul Harb or House of War-which no doubt shows how they believe conflicts between Muslims & others are going to be resolved. It also believes that its the One True faith to which all human beings can & should adhere-or else pay jizya, if one is a People of the Book, or be forcibly converted in case one is an idolator. The only other faith to make such grandoise claims is Christianity, but there are quite a few advantages one can readily get from Xtianity. For one there are some terrific convent schools worldwide, even in many non Xtian nations-where infidels can study. The ultimate hope is of course, that these infidels convert & are "saved" but in the meantime, it does do a lot of good to the infidel's life.
Such schools are very popular in Bangladesh, where I've lived, very popular in India & very popular in Senegal-again I know from first hand experience. There are also hospitals & other benefits. Of course, Xtianity has done a great many violent stuff in the past, its still doing some unpleasant stuff like not allowing condoms, child witches in Nigeria etc-but I can readlily also mention these benefits. The fact is also that in even pretty religious nations of the West like U.S.A., inspite of many crazy fundies, the non Muslims thrive happily-can migrate, convert, intermarry & everything else. It was American laws, which allowed someone like awais to convert to Islam not long after 9\11, give dawa & so on.
I've criticised Xtianity here as well, along with all faiths, but I wonder if so many great schools in India, Bangladesh, Senegal & elsewhere could be run by secular authorities today-if Xtianity abruptly disappeared. I do not subscribe to the notion that one must criticise all faiths equally, or that they're all equal-just like I don't believe that the avarage man who lives in Tunisia is the same as the avarage man who joins the Taliban-although both might exhibit some degree of patriarchy.
As someone who's read the Quran, I haven't found it some great repository of wishdom either-quite the opposite, further there's pretty little originality to entertain me. The stories are garbled additions of the OT & NT, nothing like the Illiad or the Mahabharata which entertain me. Apart from the plagiarisms, there's Muhammad's additions & his life. I find Muhammad a very unpleasant figure, who compares extremely poorly with either the Buddha or Jesus. I find many of his acts most objectionable. I find the early history of Islam-Muhammad's forced conversions, the brutal suppression of the ridda wars, the inter Sahaba wars & the jihad over the most vibrant, successful societies of the day very unpleasant.
Personally as well, there's little I can appreciate. Islam first over ran the land of Iran, from where my ancestors fled. Long time later, they fled Pakistan again after the Partition, leaving all their property behind.
Even with someone like Robert Spencer, whose attitude I do not admire-his grandparents were survivors of the Armenian Massacre, a massacre where upto a million lost their lives, all their hard earned property & had to start from scratch. This massacre is not so much as acknowledged. Needless to say, it really doesn't give one much basis to appreciate Islam. Or the long slavery by Arabs, when the Continent of Africa was robbed of its manpower & slaves were brutally castrated-when Zawahiri calls Obama the derogatory term for both Blacks & slaves today, its no basis for people to like Islam. If Robert Spencer points out that the doctrine of peace gets the upper hand in Xtianity via the NT, but violence gets the upper hand in Islam via abrogation-I can't accuse him of lying theologically.It might be true that Jesus' crucifixtion stopped him from being violent-but whatever the reason, his portrayal is pretty likeable. Respect has to be earned-it cannot be demanded with nothing to show for it. I totally respect the Buddha's opinion that we all have the right to free thought, along with many other Buddhist teachings.
Next about the fact that others are also to blame. I do believe that its true that it takes two to tango when two people are at a conflict, but I do not believe that everyone can be blamed. I do not think that its all others' fault that both Thailand & Philippines are attacked by mujahideen regularly, when they give full religious equality to Muslims, but even though Malaysia doesn't-the non Muslims bear it silently. I do not think that the Balinese & the Australian backpackers brought the two bomb blasts upon themselves. If there are religion inspired conflicts in far too many locations involving Muslims- not over say Basque independence but explicitly religion inspired & the religion in question happens to be Islam-I can't go around blaming everyone, especially not when countries like Thailand\Philippines\Singapore give full rights but face successful or attempted attacks, but Malaysia denies such rights but doesn't. I also don't think any country, whether Israel, India, U.S.A. or others should fail in their duty to protect their citizens-this doesn't include an Iraq war, but it also does not incluse taking Muslim atrocities lying down.
There are quite a few people who've suffered immensely, received nothing & even their sorrows are explained away through conspiracy theories. I dislike it if many people die anywhere & I see a majority of Muslims explain it away as an American\Zionist\local conspiracy-the same Muslims who take to the streets to protest Motoons with death threats, or Israel's counter attack with praise of Hitler.
As for Islamic reformation-well it'll be great if & when that completely happens, but till then I don't think its fair to expect the world-especially those who've been at the receiving end-to go ga ga with either praise or sympathy. I think Jewish Scriptures are some of the most horried(although its not proselytizing,doesn't demand global submission, has universal salvation) but the Jews themselves have contributed immensely compared to their tiny population-just .3% of our world.
When I or an Arab or Iranian Muslim uses Google, its invented by two Jews, when we use the T.V. remote control, its a Jewish invention, so is the polio vaccine, so are the jeans which a more modern headscarf wearer might wear with a full sleeved shirt , so's the lipstick-& many others, besides if I tell them that their Scriptures are awful IMO, they'll allow that. They have also lived in absolute peace with other Indian polytheists for over 2000 years, they had a great relation with Zoroastrian Iran-King Cyrus is revered by them. They might have gone overboard many times in Israel recently-& I do sympathise with those who've lost their lands in Israel but its difficult to really appreciate folks who teach their grandchildren to hate with inspiration from Islamic Scriptures instead of teaching them to move on-like my grandparents did. I support the right of anyone-including Muslims to criticise Israel, like any other state, but I do not support those who had little scruples turning all the Jews out of their countries(who now form 40% of Israel's population, who also lost all their lands & property) but didn't give many of the Palestinians a home & kept them hating Jews citing Islamic reasons(especially rich nations like Saudi).
Many people have had to flee many regions-70000 Buddhists have fled Southern Thailand, & a similar number have fled South Philippines as well, that doesn't give the other people worldwide belonging to these faiths the rights to castigate Muslims, nor do they do so.
Again, I repeat that I do not hate individual Muslims, but I haven't found much reason, either in Islamic Scriptures, or Islamic practices, or in my personal experiences to find much respect for the faith in theory or in practice. I remember reading BMZ claiming that Islam came to end idolatry & trinity, but apart from the obvious disrespect(& possible danger) this statement shows for idolators & trinitarians-who might together form at least twice the population of Muslims, this is no reason for me to respect the faith.
I do not want to deny any Muslims anywhere on earth their basic rights-they are all as entitled to these rights as anyone else.Its not fair to accuse us all of biases, over reactions simply coz we differ in our views. If it was asked to people if they hate BNP & find nothing good in the party, I'm sure many would agree. If someone like Baal has come from a country which holds views like that, its all right to air such views. Nor is it right to assume that we're all ignorant morons who have no idea what we're talking about, if we express anger that a vast majority of Muslims believe that a dastardly terrorist attack was a plot. Its also not fair if an obviously Islamist attack like the Mumbai massacre is dismissed as "gunmen" without mentioning Islam-which is what I remember an atheist neilmarr objecting to.
Lastly, I think we all deserve the right of free speech here, when we're not supporting torture & deportation or some such stuff. I must apologise to speaklow today, for my past misbehavior-although he\she's probably left. I'm truly sorry.
P.S.: I'm aware that this is a truly long post, & if anyone wants to skip it, or move it to Rants, feel free to do so.
Topic: Some Honest Opinions: