Would you Adam and Eve it

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- pakman
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Would you Adam and Eve it
OP - May 21, 2009, 10:26 AM

I recently saw the fascinating BBC documentary entitled 'The incredible human journey' which discussed the human journey out of Africa into Yemen and the fact that all humans can trace themselves back to africans who lived over 100,000 years ago. Even more fascinating was the fact that all non-african humans can trace themselves back to a small number of africans who first made the journey out of africa and into Arabia which was very lush at the time, this small group subsequently went on to populate the rest of the earth.

I found the documentary fascinating and very convincing. But where does this leave the adam and eve story. Could it be:

a) The whole was just made up
b) It was just a arab myth that had been around for a while
c) Adam and eve were African and the first humans
d) They were just some humans whose ancestors left Africa and they were the first to inhabit that part of the middle east, hence being the ancestors of the arabs rather then the whole human race.

For me answer d is the most convincing. Also what does Islam say or suggest about when Adam and Eve lived? Also if they were the first humans did their children have to committ incest to pro-create, isn't that sick and wouldn't that have meant most humans would be deformed and and have a very limited gene pool.

I would love to hear all sensible suggestions.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
- awais
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #1 - May 21, 2009, 10:38 AM

D is a cool thought. Would explain how in Genesis Cain and Able found wives (Jewish commentaries and muslim tafsir say Cain and Able were both born with twin sisters, Cain would marry Able's sister, and vice versa).

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- Cheetah
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #2 - May 21, 2009, 12:38 PM

D is a cool thought, but a is more likely. There are similar myths which pre-date the book of Genesis, people just like telling stories, and always have.

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #3 - May 21, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote from: pakman on May 21, 2009, 10:26 AM

a) The whole was just made up
b) It was just a arab myth that had been around for a while
c) Adam and eve were African and the first humans
d) They were just some humans whose ancestors left Africa and they were the first to inhabit that part of the middle east, hence being the ancestors of the arabs rather then the whole human race.

For me answer d is the most convincing. Also what does Islam say or suggest about when Adam and Eve lived? Also if they were the first humans did their children have to committ incest to pro-create, isn't that sick and wouldn't that have meant most humans would be deformed and and have a very limited gene pool.

I would love to hear all sensible suggestions.

Correct me if I am wrong, but (d) assumes a brother & sister were the first, and only 2, people to inhabit the Middle East.

Because this is less likely, I will go by the same assumption that I have for how God was invented.
Ancient Man thought everything had to come from something, so humans must have been born from the first set of humans and the first set of humans must have been made by God. So will go with (a)

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #4 - May 21, 2009, 12:45 PM

If anyone wants to watch it:

part1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00kfqps/The_Incredible_Human_Journey_Out_of_Africa/

&
part2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00kmtft/The_Incredible_Human_Journey_Asia/

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #5 - May 23, 2009, 01:14 PM

a) The whole story was just made up

Though evolved from earlier myths.

btw I'm not sure why you attribute the story to the Arabs, since it came from the Hebrews and I have no doubt they got it from somewhere else.

btw long time no see Pakman - hope u r well mate
- sojournerlumus
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #6 - May 23, 2009, 08:10 PM

Made up of course, with one man and one woman chosen to tidy up an embarrassing loose end, albeit at the alleged beginning, and designed to cement male over female dominance.
Once the whole crock could be written down and passed thro' the generations the myth ossified somewhat, to be modified only when some iconoclastic person or event required that it be so.
The idiots who did the recent genetic studies didn't do reality much of a favour with the strange notion of 'genetic Eves'. What about Lilith or Ethel Goosebody?

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- aggur
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #7 - May 23, 2009, 11:58 PM

The ideas of a garden of Eden and Adam and Eve, and Noah's flood, are often tied up with ancient Sumerian myths from about 4000 years ago - especially the story of the god Enki and his partner Ninhursag.

Enki for example created a man from out of clay to work in his fruit-tree garden. He also had a servant called Adapa (which apparently means "forbidden knowledge") and warns the servant not to eat some food that the god Anu will tempt him to eat. The word "edin" in Sumerian means "plain" or cultivated land" so some people make the link with the monotheists' "eden". There's also the god Enlil who threatens humans with a flood to destroy all of mankind. Enki however warns a guy called Ziusudra about the danger and tells him to save his family and animals by building a great boat.

I find these links pretty convincing - as yet more examples of myths that have been passed on through the ages changing little by little.

Echoes of Eden by Terje Stordalen is one of the books on all this that you can consult as a google book.
- Rashna
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #8 - May 24, 2009, 02:40 AM

Quote from: aggur on May 23, 2009, 11:58 PM
The ideas of a garden of Eden and Adam and Eve, and Noah's flood, are often tied up with ancient Sumerian myths from about 4000 years ago - especially the story of the god Enki and his partner Ninhursag.

Enki for example created a man from out of clay to work in his fruit-tree garden. He also had a servant called Adapa (which apparently means "forbidden knowledge") and warns the servant not to eat some food that the god Anu will tempt him to eat. The word "edin" in Sumerian means "plain" or cultivated land" so some people make the link with the monotheists' "eden". There's also the god Enlil who threatens humans with a flood to destroy all of mankind. Enki however warns a guy called Ziusudra about the danger and tells him to save his family and animals by building a great boat.

I find these links pretty convincing - as yet more examples of myths that have been passed on through the ages changing little by little.

Echoes of Eden by Terje Stordalen is one of the books on all this that you can consult as a google book.

aggur! I always find it fascinating how pre Biblical\Quranic myths were incorporated into these monotheistic texts & assumed to be the absolute truths while the older faiths were denigrated.

I had made a thread a long time back about the 10 Commandments being inspired from the Egyptian Papyrus of Ani. http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4523.0

I prefer the ethical guidelines given in Ani's Papyrus to the 10 Commandments, I wonder if I'll also prefer the Sumerian myths to Biblical ones when I get hold of Terje Stordalen's book.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
- aggur
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #9 - May 24, 2009, 03:21 AM

Rashna - just seen your post - if you want to see the book just type the keywords

Terje Stordalen eden

into google and you'll get the link to the on-line google book. I don't know why but google doesn't allow me to copy the link directly for you.
- Rashna
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Re: Would you Adam and Eve it
Reply #10 - May 24, 2009, 03:42 AM

again aggur! the book & found the book online. Gonna read it soon.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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