Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?

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Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
OP - May 21, 2009, 05:34 PM

I don't mean to insult Arab Wannabe or anyone else, so AW please don't take this as an insult-you're a nice guy. However, from my reading of the God Delusion & watching Dawkins videos, I sincerely get the impression that he says that religion is evil-all religions are harmful, immoral & evil.

I heard AW, among others claim that Dawkins does not claim that religion is evil.

What do you think?

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #1 - May 21, 2009, 06:03 PM

Quote from: Rashna on May 21, 2009, 05:34 PM
I don't mean to insult Arab Wannabe or anyone else, so AW please don't take this as an insult-you're a nice guy. However, from my reading of the God Delusion & watching Dawkins videos, I sincerely get the impression that he says that religion is evil-all religions are harmful, immoral & evil.

I heard AW, among others claim that Dawkins does not claim that religion is evil.

What do you think?

Well like I said, I read the god delusion (didnt finish it though) and I dont remember reading anything about religion being evil.

I also think, being a scientist, he would shy away from using a loaded, subjective and virtually unworkable term like "evil" - at most he would say "dangerous"

Just my opinion.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #2 - May 21, 2009, 06:05 PM

I think he is hostile towards the type of thinking which takes anything on faith, whether its religion or psychics or acupuncture or whatever. Evil? I dunno, but he did make a documentary about religion called The Root of All Evil.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #3 - May 21, 2009, 06:13 PM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 06:03 PM
Well like I said, I read the god delusion (didnt finish it though) and I dont remember reading anything about religion being evil.

I also think, being a scientist, he would shy away from using a loaded, subjective and virtually unworkable term like "evil" - at most he would say "dangerous"

Just my opinion.

I think the way he criticised YHWH, mentioned the crimes committed due to religious bigotry & even criticised the niqab near the end of the book(don't remember exactly in which context) its quite plain that he thought religion evil.

Anyway, if an ex Muslim from Syria wrote a book called "The Allah Delusion," & said stuff about religion in general & Islam in particular like Dawkins did, would you support such an individual? If he\she did great work for the upliftment of the community alongside airing his anti religion views?

Dawkins called Yahweh the "most unpleasant character in fiction," & used a slew of adjectives like homophobe, mass murderer, misogynist etc.

If the ex Muslim called Mo such names in his magnum opus, "The Allah Delusion," what would you think of him?
I'm curious.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #4 - May 21, 2009, 06:31 PM

Quote from: Rashna on May 21, 2009, 06:13 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 06:03 PM
Well like I said, I read the god delusion (didnt finish it though) and I dont remember reading anything about religion being evil.

I also think, being a scientist, he would shy away from using a loaded, subjective and virtually unworkable term like "evil" - at most he would say "dangerous"

Just my opinion.

I think the way he criticised YHWH, mentioned the crimes committed due to religious bigotry & even criticised the niqab near the end of the book(don't remember exactly in which context) its quite plain that he thought religion evil.

Anyway, if an ex Muslim from Syria wrote a book called "The Allah Delusion," & said stuff about religion in general & Islam in particular like Dawkins did, would you support such an individual? If he\she did great work for the upliftment of the community alongside airing his anti religion views?

Dawkins called Yahweh the "most unpleasant character in fiction," & used a slew of adjectives like homophobe, mass murderer, misogynist etc.

If the ex Muslim called Mo such names in his magnum opus, "The Allah Delusion," what would you think of him?
I'm curious.

I wouldnt support him or his views, partly because in your example he would single out Islam as uniquely bad but also because I think people who need to call holy/sacred figures all sorts of disparaging epithets to prove a point, dont have much of a point at all.

In the same vein, not many people on this forum would support the Muslim brotherhood (because of their views) despite the amazing amount of social work they carry out in Egypt (filling the gap left by an incompetent government) and other places.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #5 - May 21, 2009, 06:43 PM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 06:31 PM
I wouldnt support him or his views, partly because in your example he would single out Islam as uniquely bad but also because I think people who need to call holy/sacred figures all sorts of disparaging epithets to prove a point, dont have much of a point at all.

In the same vein, not many people on this forum would support the Muslim brotherhood (because of their views) despite the amazing amount of social work they carry out in Egypt (filling the gap left by an incompetent government) and other places.

Why would he need to single out Islam, or even try very hard to single out Islam? In Dawkins example, he comes from an Anglican background, to show the terrible crimes committed in Christianity's name or to show the religious wars fought in Europe, he has to go centuries back-but for a Muslim, such examples are easy. The reason such examples would be easy to find would be the actions of Muslims, not due to any inherent prejudice of the Syrian Dawkins equivalent.

As far as the Muslim Brotherhood is concerned, thats' a poor analogy. The Muslim Brotherhood states that it wants to bring back the jizya for Copts-does Dawkins want to tax religious folks more than others?

The Muslim Brotherhood wants segregated schools & dress codes for women, does Dawkins want religious folks to study separately & dress differently from others?

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #6 - May 21, 2009, 06:49 PM

Quote from: Rashna on May 21, 2009, 06:43 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 06:31 PM
I wouldnt support him or his views, partly because in your example he would single out Islam as uniquely bad but also because I think people who need to call holy/sacred figures all sorts of disparaging epithets to prove a point, dont have much of a point at all.

In the same vein, not many people on this forum would support the Muslim brotherhood (because of their views) despite the amazing amount of social work they carry out in Egypt (filling the gap left by an incompetent government) and other places.

As far as the Muslim Brotherhood is concerned, thats' a poor analogy. The Muslim Brotherhood states that it wants to bring back the jizya for Copts-does Dawkins want to tax religious folks more than others?

The Muslim Brotherhood wants segregated schools & dress codes for women, does Dawkins want religious folks to study separately & dress differently from others?

Exactly, you dont like their views despite their social work or efforts to help the poorest in their communities.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #7 - May 21, 2009, 06:51 PM

I dont think he has gone as far as to say religion is evil (is this statement supposed to include Buddhism?)

He may believe it is unnecessary and all a con, but to actually state that it is evil in his book would be a ridiculous assumption to make.

In fact on p1 of his book he says "Religion is not the root of all evil, for no one thing is the root of all anything."

So there's your answer folks, no need for a poll.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #8 - May 21, 2009, 06:58 PM

Quote from: Cheetah
I dunno, but he did make a documentary about religion called The Root of All Evil.

This is also what came to my mind as soon as the topic was brought up.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #9 - May 21, 2009, 07:01 PM

Quote from: Rashna on May 21, 2009, 06:43 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 06:31 PM
I wouldnt support him or his views, partly because in your example he would single out Islam as uniquely bad but also because I think people who need to call holy/sacred figures all sorts of disparaging epithets to prove a point, dont have much of a point at all.

In the same vein, not many people on this forum would support the Muslim brotherhood (because of their views) despite the amazing amount of social work they carry out in Egypt (filling the gap left by an incompetent government) and other places.

Why would he need to single out Islam, or even try very hard to single out Islam? In Dawkins example, he comes from an Anglican background, to show the terrible crimes committed in Christianity's name or to show the religious wars fought in Europe, he has to go centuries back-but for a Muslim, such examples are easy. The reason such examples would be easy to find would be the actions of Muslims, not due to any inherent prejudice of the Syrian Dawkins equivalent.

I think there are degrees, as you mentioned there is difference between Robert Spencer and Dawkins (I wouldnt buy Robert Spencer's crap for one) and in the hypothetical scenario you mentioned I would have to read his/her views to form an opinion. If the person makes a distinction between Islam and Muslims, then Im interested. If the person makes a distinction between Islam and political Islam, then Im even more interested. If a person says Islam is evil, then, well you know what I think.

If its Wafa or Ayaan type stuff, then no I wouldnt support him/her, in fact I would strongly criticize that person. If its "religion is false and let me show you why" - then that is more interesting to me on a personal level, also because it doesnt involve hyperbole.

I support those who support secularism in the Muslim world NOT and NEVER the destruction and/or hatred of Islam.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

"Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #10 - May 21, 2009, 07:12 PM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 07:01 PM
I support those who support secularism in the Muslim world NOT and NEVER the destruction and/or hatred of Islam.

Whats' wrong in wanting a destruction of Islam? Again, whats' wrong in having a hatred of Islam?

Of course, somehow the word "destruction" brings to our mind some sort of violent action-which I am against. I don't support any coercion or violence, but if someone wants to see Islam gone, whats wrong with that? Many like Dawkins, Dennett & Sam Harris amongst a burgeoning crop of new writers want to see all religions gone, whats wrong in wanting Islam gone? I am against violent re education campaigns or harassment of any sort but surely its fine to dislike all religions or for that matter atheism? Many religious folks want to see atheism gone & preach against atheism as well.

As far as the hatred of Islam is concerned-the world is a free marketplace of ideas- we can hate a movie, hate a book, hate a belief or intensely adore one. Haven't you seen fan sites of J.K. Rowling as well as Harry Potter hate sites? These people are free to think & express what they want to, as long as there's no violence or ill treatment of Rowling herself for her book. Ditto with a faith, as long as dislike does not become verbal or physical attacks on individuals or any form of coercion, surely anyone is free to say what they want.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #11 - May 21, 2009, 07:17 PM

Quote from: Cheetah
I dunno, but he did make a documentary about religion called The Root of All Evil.

Quote
This is also what came to my mind as soon as the topic was brought up.

Yes, it was for a channel 4 documentary. He wasn't happy with the title they gave it, but he went along with it anyway.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #12 - May 21, 2009, 07:28 PM

Quote from: Rashna on May 21, 2009, 07:12 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 07:01 PM
I support those who support secularism in the Muslim world NOT and NEVER the destruction and/or hatred of Islam.

Whats' wrong in wanting a destruction of Islam? Again, whats' wrong in having a hatred of Islam?

Of course, somehow the word "destruction" brings to our mind some sort of violent action-which I am against. I don't support any coercion or violence, but if someone wants to see Islam gone, whats wrong with that? Many like Dawkins, Dennett & Sam Harris amongst a burgeoning crop of new writers want to see all religions gone, whats wrong in wanting Islam gone? I am against violent re education campaigns or harassment of any sort but surely its fine to dislike all religions or for that matter atheism? Many religious folks want to see atheism gone & preach against atheism as well.

As far as the hatred of Islam is concerned-the world is a free marketplace of ideas- we can hate a movie, hate a book, hate a belief or intensely adore one. Haven't you seen fan sites of J.K. Rowling as well as Harry Potter hate sites? These people are free to think & express what they want to, as long as there's no violence or ill treatment of Rowling herself for her book. Ditto with a faith, as long as dislike does not become verbal or physical attacks on individuals or any form of coercion, surely anyone is free to say what they want.

I didnt say they couldnt say it, I said I wouldnt support it.

That is also my right isnt it? I dont have to support the destruction of Islam for obvious reasons Rashna.

Incidentally, I cant think of any ideology or religion which was destroyed without violence.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

"Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #13 - May 21, 2009, 07:33 PM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 07:28 PM
I didnt say they couldnt say it, I said I wouldnt support it.
That is also my right isnt it? I dont have to support the destruction of Islam for obvious reasons Rashna.

Fair enough, as long as they have a right to say whatever they want to say, I'm fine with your views-all I'm against is censoring criticism which is against an ideology & not against any innocent individuals.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #14 - May 21, 2009, 07:36 PM

Quote from: Rashna on May 21, 2009, 07:33 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 07:28 PM
I didnt say they couldnt say it, I said I wouldnt support it.
That is also my right isnt it? I dont have to support the destruction of Islam for obvious reasons Rashna.

Fair enough, as long as they have a right to say whatever they want to say, I'm fine with your views-all I'm against is censoring criticism which is against an ideology & not against any innocent individuals.

Sure, although we all know that free speech is not absolute in many countries (with the possible exception of the United States)

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #15 - May 21, 2009, 08:39 PM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
I support those who support secularism in the Muslim world NOT and NEVER the destruction and/or hatred of Islam.

You don't really know what secularism represents, and at what expense it can be achieved in an Islamic society.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #16 - May 21, 2009, 08:53 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on May 21, 2009, 06:05 PM
I think he is hostile towards the type of thinking which takes anything on faith, whether its religion or psychics or acupuncture or whatever. Evil? I dunno, but he did make a documentary about religion called The Root of All Evil.

Didn't he say in his book that the title "Root of all Evil" was thrust upon him and he did not feel comfortable with it - but went along anyway? I'm sure he said something like that.

I have read his book and I didn't get the impression that he would agree that religion was evil - though I do think he would agree that it was unnecessary.
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #17 - May 21, 2009, 08:58 PM

Quote from: Zaephon on May 21, 2009, 08:39 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
I support those who support secularism in the Muslim world NOT and NEVER the destruction and/or hatred of Islam.

You don't really know what secularism represents, and at what expense it can be achieved in an Islamic society.

Thanks for your completely useless contribution to this thread, may there be many more.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

"Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
- Quran 4:78
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #18 - May 21, 2009, 09:03 PM

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48252

This is what Richard Dawkins has to say about the OT:

Quote
"The God of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous, and proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist," he says. Dawkins then criticizes Abraham, compares Moses to Hitler and Saddam Hussein, and calls the New Testament "St Paul's nasty, sado-masochistic doctrine of atonement for original sin."

When similar things are said about the Quran and Mohammad here, Arab-Wannabe suddenly gets very agitated. Yet he has no problem with Dawkins attacking the religion he was born into. I wonder why?

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #19 - May 21, 2009, 09:13 PM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 08:58 PM
Quote from: Zaephon on May 21, 2009, 08:39 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
I support those who support secularism in the Muslim world NOT and NEVER the destruction and/or hatred of Islam.

You don't really know what secularism represents, and at what expense it can be achieved in an Islamic society.

Thanks for your completely useless contribution to this thread, may there be many more.

Well, I was simply stating the truth. You are not even capable of understanding that secularism requires the banishment of religion from the public sphere, which is essentially the gradual destruction of the relevant religion, since organised religion is never about the individual, but a society of individuals. This is especially true in the case of Islam, which attempts to rule every aspect of daily life, however mundane. Trying to banish Islam from the public sphere is essentially suppressing Islam.

Islam has its own political theory. This is why orthodox Islam and political Islam are perfectly compatible. This is why secularism requires the suppression of Islam. Your self-righteous anger amuses me.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #20 - May 21, 2009, 09:20 PM

Quote from: Zaephon on May 21, 2009, 09:13 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 08:58 PM
Quote from: Zaephon on May 21, 2009, 08:39 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
I support those who support secularism in the Muslim world NOT and NEVER the destruction and/or hatred of Islam.

You don't really know what secularism represents, and at what expense it can be achieved in an Islamic society.

Thanks for your completely useless contribution to this thread, may there be many more.

Well, I was simply stating the truth. You are not even capable of understanding that secularism requires the banishment of religion from the public sphere, which is essentially the gradual destruction of the relevant religion, since organised religion is never about the individual, but a society of individuals. This is especially true in the case of Islam, which attempts to rule every aspect of daily life, however mundane. Trying to banish Islam from the public sphere is essentially suppressing Islam.

Islam has its own political theory. This is why orthodox Islam and political Islam are perfectly compatible. This is why secularism requires the suppression of Islam. Your self-righteous anger amuses me.

No anger at all, it was actually a completely useless post and even you know that.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #21 - May 21, 2009, 09:26 PM

Quote from: Zaephon on May 21, 2009, 09:03 PM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48252

This is what Richard Dawkins has to say about the OT:

Quote
"The God of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous, and proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist," he says. Dawkins then criticizes Abraham, compares Moses to Hitler and Saddam Hussein, and calls the New Testament "St Paul's nasty, sado-masochistic doctrine of atonement for original sin."

When similar things are said about the Quran and Mohammad here, Arab-Wannabe suddenly gets very agitated. Yet he has no problem with Dawkins attacking the religion he was born into. I wonder why?

Well actually since Muslim are supposed to revere all the prophets, a Muslim should have a problem with his depiction of Moses etc.

But its definitely not Robert Spencer or Wafa etc. AND, crucially, its an attack on all religions which shows a certain degree of balance.

Its a question of degrees as I stated previously.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #22 - May 21, 2009, 09:50 PM

Quote from: Zaephon on May 21, 2009, 09:13 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 21, 2009, 08:58 PM
Quote from: Zaephon on May 21, 2009, 08:39 PM
Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
I support those who support secularism in the Muslim world NOT and NEVER the destruction and/or hatred of Islam.

You don't really know what secularism represents, and at what expense it can be achieved in an Islamic society.

Thanks for your completely useless contribution to this thread, may there be many more.

Well, I was simply stating the truth. You are not even capable of understanding that secularism requires the banishment of religion from the public sphere, which is essentially the gradual destruction of the relevant religion, since organised religion is never about the individual, but a society of individuals. This is especially true in the case of Islam, which attempts to rule every aspect of daily life, however mundane. Trying to banish Islam from the public sphere is essentially suppressing Islam.

Islam has its own political theory. This is why orthodox Islam and political Islam are perfectly compatible. This is why secularism requires the suppression of Islam. Your self-righteous anger amuses me.

There are different forms of secularism both in the west and the Muslim world. Are we talking about Jinna's Pakistan before desecularization from above (Zia)? Are we talking about secularization under Bourghiba in Tunisia where the state took control of the Mosque? Are we talking about forced secularization such as Turkey (but which also involved state control of the church)? Are we talking about soviet secularization which involved the destruction of religion (and the inevitable blowback we see today in Central Asia)? Are we talking French "laicite"? Are we talking american secularism where religion as an important role in the public sphere? Are we talking about secular Kazakhstan or Kyrgzstan?

Bottom line, you know nothing about me and your assumptions are those of an ignorant fool. If I were you I'd stick to the pedo, eye-gouging torture hyperbole posts, you're much better at those

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

"Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #23 - May 22, 2009, 05:36 AM

Richard Dawkins doesn't focus on Islam, he focuses on criticising the Bible. Also, Ayaan Hirsi Ali stated before that she "doesn't like churches." In other words, none of these prominent atheists focus exclusively on one religion, though all atheists of course are more critical of the religion they were born into. So why don't you accuse Dawkins of being an evil anti-Christian bigot? Nietzsche attacked Christianity specifically, using the harshest language, was he a bigot also? Since you have a problem with accepting any harsh criticism of Islam, you always conjure the same rabbits out of your hat. It's boring or amusing, depending on the circumstances.

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
If I were you I'd stick to the pedo, eye-gouging torture hyperbole posts, you're much better at those

Mohammad was a pedophile, get over it. If you dispute the term so much, you could have contributed to the discussion. I know that you feel you must come up with excuses to justify your failure to produce actual counter-arguments against Mo's child marriage. You are unable to discuss your taboos.

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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #24 - May 22, 2009, 09:21 AM

Quote from: Zaephon on May 22, 2009, 05:36 AM
Richard Dawkins doesn't focus on Islam, he focuses on criticising the Bible. Also, Ayaan Hirsi Ali stated before that she "doesn't like churches." In other words, none of these prominent atheists focus exclusively on one religion, though all atheists of course are more critical of the religion they were born into. So why don't you accuse Dawkins of being an evil anti-Christian bigot? Nietzsche attacked Christianity specifically, using the harshest language, was he a bigot also? Since you have a problem with accepting any harsh criticism of Islam, you always conjure the same rabbits out of your hat. It's boring or amusing, depending on the circumstances.

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
If I were you I'd stick to the pedo, eye-gouging torture hyperbole posts, you're much better at those

Mohammad was a pedophile, get over it. If you dispute the term so much, you could have contributed to the discussion. I know that you feel you must come up with excuses to justify your failure to produce actual counter-arguments against Mo's child marriage. You are unable to discuss your taboos.

See how much better you are at those? Thats your confort zone, stick to it.

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

"Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
- Quran 4:78
- Zaephon
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #25 - May 22, 2009, 11:34 AM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
See how much better you are at those? Thats your confort zone, stick to it.

Still regurgitating excuses to circumvent the discussion, I see.

Quote from: Zaephon
Richard Dawkins doesn't focus on Islam, he focuses on criticising the Bible. Also, Ayaan Hirsi Ali stated before that she "doesn't like churches." In other words, none of these prominent atheists focus exclusively on one religion, though all atheists of course are more critical of the religion they were born into. So why don't you accuse Dawkins of being an evil anti-Christian bigot? Nietzsche attacked Christianity specifically, using the harshest language, was he a bigot also? Since you have a problem with accepting any harsh criticism of Islam, you always conjure the same rabbits out of your hat. It's boring or amusing, depending on the circumstances.

Answer this, please.

Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
- Rashna
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #26 - May 22, 2009, 12:36 PM

Arab Wannabe,
Is it fine to call the OT God all these adjectives? You said on another thread that you have no problem with Dawkins>
Quote
"The God of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous, and proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist," he says. Dawkins then criticizes Abraham, compares Moses to Hitler and Saddam Hussein, and calls the New Testament "St Paul's nasty, sado-masochistic doctrine of atonement for original sin."

Then, is it wrong to call Muhammad a pedophile, rapist, mass murderer, forcible proselytizer & a most unpleasant character as well?

If you don't have a problem with Dawkins, why should you have a problem with anyone using all these adjectives about Muhammad?

From what I know about you you were a revert to Islam, now an ex Muslim defender of Islam, yet you claim to believe in fairness, so if someone can call the Judeo Christian God all these nasty adjectives, why can't they also call Mo all these?

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
- Submissive Bob
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #27 - May 22, 2009, 12:54 PM

"Dawkins has said that the title The Root of All Evil? was not his preferred choice, but that Channel 4 had insisted on it to create controversy.[1] The sole concession from the producers on the title was the addition of the question mark. Dawkins has stated that the notion of anything being the root of all evil is ridiculous."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Root_of_All_Evil%3F

My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
- Arab-Wannabe
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #28 - May 22, 2009, 02:12 PM

Quote from: Rashna on May 22, 2009, 12:36 PM
Arab Wannabe,
Is it fine to call the OT God all these adjectives? You said on another thread that you have no problem with Dawkins>
Quote
"The God of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous, and proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist," he says. Dawkins then criticizes Abraham, compares Moses to Hitler and Saddam Hussein, and calls the New Testament "St Paul's nasty, sado-masochistic doctrine of atonement for original sin."

Then, is it wrong to call Muhammad a pedophile, rapist, mass murderer, forcible proselytizer & a most unpleasant character as well?

If you don't have a problem with Dawkins, why should you have a problem with anyone using all these adjectives about Muhammad?

From what I know about you you were a revert to Islam, now an ex Muslim defender of Islam, yet you claim to believe in fairness, so if someone can call the Judeo Christian God all these nasty adjectives, why can't they also call Mo all these?

No, I dont think its fine to call the god of the OT all these adjectives, I never said I did. I think its insulting to Christians and Jews.

Having said that, I have much less of a problem with Dawkins then I do with Ayaan and Wafa for reasons outlined in previous posts (crass and dangerous generalizations about all Muslims, the Taqqiya libel etc.). Additionally Im also more directly concerned when it comes to the latter bigots.

Im not an ex-muslim, whatever gave you that idea?

"By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

"Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
- Quran 4:78
- Rashna
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Re: Doesn't Dawkins say that religion is evil & unneccessary?
Reply #29 - May 22, 2009, 02:31 PM

Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on May 22, 2009, 02:12 PM
Im not an ex-muslim, whatever gave you that idea?

You said this on the "Light Discussion on Atheism," thread:

Quote from: Hassan
You don't believe in Islam any more do you AW?

Quote from: Arab Wannabe
You're the second person to ask me that on this thread alone.

I think Ill just stick to my old job, people clearly aren't confortable if I act out of character.

BCM is back, Hassan!

Thats a big NO, in case you were wondering.

So I thought you were an ex Muslim.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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