Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Do humans have needed kno...
Today at 09:05 AM

Lights on the way
by akay
Yesterday at 02:52 PM

New Britain
January 10, 2025, 09:40 AM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
January 09, 2025, 09:33 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
January 09, 2025, 01:34 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 12:03 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 11:55 AM

News From Syria
by zeca
December 28, 2024, 12:29 AM

Mo Salah
December 26, 2024, 05:30 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
December 25, 2024, 10:58 AM

What's happened to the fo...
December 25, 2024, 02:29 AM

Berlin car crasher
by zeca
December 21, 2024, 11:10 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?

 (Read 7057 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     OP - May 27, 2009, 08:12 AM

    Look at these suras!  bunny
    Quran Sura 4:79
    Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah;
    but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself.

    If we are blamed for the bad, why aren't we similarly praised for the good as well? Huh?

    If only good happens from Allah, does this mean that Allah is not omnipotent?

    Hasn't Allah put a seal on unbelievers hearts & He guides whom He wills & leads astray whom He wills? So how can we be blamed for the bad, given that our hearts are pre sealed?




    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #1 - May 27, 2009, 08:19 AM

    That sounds so typical; taking the credit for the good stuff and leaving the bad to blame on us Roll Eyes
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #2 - May 27, 2009, 08:55 AM

    Does an accident count as a "bad thing"?

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ExMuslims
    Council of Ex-Muslims of the Netherlands will be back!

    Never doubt that a small group of commited people can change te world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #3 - May 27, 2009, 08:57 AM

    Does an accident count as a "bad thing"?

    That's what they all say Tongue
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #4 - May 27, 2009, 09:00 AM

    That sounds so typical; taking the credit for the good stuff and leaving the bad to blame on us Roll Eyes


    Its just what Muslim apologists do-they claim that Islam came to end slavery & liberate slaves & try to take the credit for the end of slavery(untrue btw, Islamic nations were the last to ban slavery) but if you mention oppression of women & non Muslims & jihadi violence, they'll claim thats' not Islam & blame it on Western imperialism,Hindus, Jews,Thai Buddhists, White supremacists & others!

    Like Deity, like devotees!  015

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #5 - May 27, 2009, 09:09 AM

    That sounds so typical; taking the credit for the good stuff and leaving the bad to blame on us Roll Eyes


    Its just what Muslim apologists do-they claim that Islam came to end slavery & liberate slaves & try to take the credit for the end of slavery(untrue btw, Islamic nations were the last to ban slavery) but if you mention oppression of women & non Muslims & jihadi violence, they'll claim thats' not Islam & blame it on Western imperialism,Hindus, Jews,Thai Buddhists, White supremacists & others!

    Like Deity, like devotees!  015

     Cheesy

    And to top it off some Islamic nations still allow slavery by being a tier 3 country in regards to trafficking (Saudi Arabia included)
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #6 - May 27, 2009, 04:20 PM

    Imagine if I invent a new space ship that is capable of lightspeed. The muslims would say "alhamdulillah!". But if I did that, why should all the praise be to allah?! Surely I should get some of the praise as well!

    That really grinds my gears!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #7 - May 27, 2009, 04:30 PM

    Look at these suras!  bunny
    Quran Sura 4:79
    Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah;
    but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself.



    Yes, I always found that messed up!

    Along with the 'we will only go to paradise by God's Mercy but go to Hell because it's our own fault.'


  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #8 - May 27, 2009, 04:30 PM

    Imagine if I invent a new space ship that is capable of lightspeed. The muslims would say "alhamdulillah!". But if I did that, why should all the praise be to allah?! Surely I should get some of the praise as well!

    That really grinds my gears!


    Idiot, moron!  finmad Of  course credit for your  spacecraft would go to Allah, to Him belongs all praise!

    But if your spaceship crashed & killed many people, of course you are to blame!   Tongue

    All praise is for Allah, all blame for us mere mortals! little angel

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #9 - May 27, 2009, 05:08 PM

    Look at these suras!  bunny
    Quran Sura 4:79
    Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah;
    but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself.

    If we are blamed for the bad, why aren't we similarly praised for the good as well? Huh?

    If only good happens from Allah, does this mean that Allah is not omnipotent?

    Hasn't Allah put a seal on unbelievers hearts & He guides whom He wills & leads astray whom He wills? So how can we be blamed for the bad, given that our hearts are pre sealed?




    Apart from what you said I see another fault.Muhhamad was crafty but was yet poor when it came to thorough thinking  . Intelligence and he had absolutely no connection . Muhhamad and intelligence repelled each other Just as the like poles of a magnet repel each other . Consider a case where a woman is raped . How does evil come to her because of herself? Whats her fault ?
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #10 - May 27, 2009, 05:12 PM

    Consider a case where a woman is raped . How does evil come to her because of herself? Whats her fault ?


    This is easy, she was dressed immodestly & was travelling without her mahram!  Wink

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #11 - May 27, 2009, 05:28 PM

    Consider a case where a woman is raped . How does evil come to her because of herself? Whats her fault ?


    This is easy, she was dressed immodestly & was travelling without her mahram!  Wink


    This is not always the case.There are cases where rapes occur even after a woman is not at fault from her side.Muhhamad just didnt use common sense  that evil can come to a person even when there is no fault of his.Alas Muhhamad was blessed with common sense !! Cheesy .This is the least thing that Allah should have done before sending him on earth .

  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #12 - May 27, 2009, 05:44 PM

    Look at these suras!  bunny
    Quran Sura 4:79
    Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah;
    but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself.


    That sounds very similar to the Religionist responce to the problem of evil. Evil only comes from our free will but the fact that we have free will is so good that it outweighs any possible bad consequences. To which the best reply is, "so what about natural disasters?"

    Natural disasters kill and maim lots of people. Where do natural disasters come from? If you say natural disasters only kill and maim people because we have sinned and so it is punishment, that isn't answering the question. Who gave us this 'punishment'?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #13 - May 27, 2009, 06:47 PM

    Look at these suras!  bunny
    Quran Sura 4:79
    Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah;
    but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself.

    If we are blamed for the bad, why aren't we similarly praised for the good as well? Huh?

    If only good happens from Allah, does this mean that Allah is not omnipotent?

    Hasn't Allah put a seal on unbelievers hearts & He guides whom He wills & leads astray whom He wills? So how can we be blamed for the bad, given that our hearts are pre sealed?




    Apart from what you said I see another fault.Muhhamad was crafty but was yet poor when it came to thorough thinking  . Intelligence and he had absolutely no connection . Muhhamad and intelligence repelled each other Just as the like poles of a magnet repel each other . Consider a case where a woman is raped . How does evil come to her because of herself? Whats her fault ?


    With all due respect, I think Muhammad may have been many things, but stupid he wasn't. It was very clever of him to attribute all the good things to Allah and all blame for bad things to humans as it helps reinforce the message that man must submit completely to Allah if he wants to be saved. Man can't go on his own - he needs to submit his will to Allah and by being a faithful slave he will avoid bad and be guided to the good. (This guilt trip idea was not new either).

    The example you gave is fine - but you forget that many people who have suffered terrible things end up blaming themselves. (no matter how perverse that it - it is true.) They say 'this bad thing happened to me because I did such and such - or because I abandoned God's law etc...'

    In fact this is one of the things that makes me so angry about Islam (and all religions that lay the guilt trip on it's followers). There are so many innocent, abused victims who end up blaming themselves because of this fucked-up religious mentality and all it does is throw them deeper into the arms of religion to seek a cure. There are a few who get out - but they are a few.
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #14 - May 28, 2009, 07:37 AM

    Quote from: Hassan
    With all due respect, I think Muhammad may have been many things, but stupid he wasn't. It was very clever of him to attribute all the good things to Allah and all blame for bad things to humans as it helps reinforce the message that man must submit completely to Allah if he wants to be saved. Man can't go on his own - he needs to submit his will to Allah and by being a faithful slave he will avoid bad and be guided to the good. (This guilt trip idea was not new either).


    My claim is muhhamad was highly skilled and intelligent at manipulating people  but  indeed a stupid person when it came to logical thinking and thats why I said he was crafty but dumb when it came to logic. He couldnt think thoroughly about his claims .Only gullible folks would fall for this trap of 4:79.


    I dont think that all the people during this time were fools to buy his crap. There are a few reasons I see as to why muhhamad became successful inspite of being a dumb at logical thinking and people being intelligent.


    1)People during muhhamads time didnt have the luxury to criticize his statements and doubt them . WE all know what happened to those who criticized him.

    2)The reason all of them failed to see through his lies was because of their convinction about muhhamad being a true prophet.This convinction came because of muhhamads own conviction about he being a prophet of GOD.When a lie is repeated a no of times it becomes the truth. Thats what Muhhamad did.

     He had created a charming personality around him and people wouldnt even think to doubt his claims for e.g In a hadith we see that Um Salama once asked muhhamad to treat all the wives justly and muhhamad s reply was divine inspiration comes to him when he is bed of Aisha.Now what is the fault of Um Salama in that ?Why unfair treatment must be given to her for no fault of hers? When muhhamad gave this excuse  Um Salama asked for forgiveness. Logically Um Salama was right in her claims for demanding justice and  the excuse given by muhhamad was crap but yet she accepted his explanation and asked for forgiveness to Allah.


    3) Muhhamad was a crafty salesman of his own religion. He would deliberately inject some good things into the religion so that people buy his crap in entirety. Thats what all successful cult leaders do.Keep preaching good things until you acquire people's trust and then in between insert something that is evil which benefits only you. Gullible folks fall for it.

     Muhhamad had created such an enigma around him and that people accepted his claims without analyzing them. Thats what cults do. Anyone who is outside muhhamads enigma can easily see through his lies so if Muhhamad was intelligent then he would have made intelligent comments and people with common sense would not object and call it crap. His only skill  was  in making people believe in his stupid lies . Thats why I say that Muhhamad was intelligent in being crafty but stupid to the core when it came to philosophical and logical thinking as he couldnt convince people on proper reasoning but on resorting to deceptive tactics.

    In my next post I will give another example of dumb thinking from Muhhamad.


    Quote from: Hassan
    The example you gave is fine - but you forget that many people who have suffered terrible things end up blaming themselves. (no matter how perverse that it - it is true.) They say 'this bad thing happened to me because I did such and such - or because I abandoned God's law etc...'



    I would say thats a perspective of a believer influenced by emotions and is  far away from truth. Truth is universal and not relative  .Religious people are trapped in enigma of their faith.They tend to blame themselves because of that and  not because they actually think they are at fault.

    Ask any religious person  whether a woman raped is at fault or not without mentioning anything about the verse 4:79 or anything related to religion. His answer would be No (assuming the  a case she is dressed properly and did nothing wrong)  so  I see the moment people come of their religious influence they start using their brains and do not buy crap but that doesnt mean that one who wrote this crap was intelligent. He remains dumb for improper thinking and his only skill is fooling people.

    Quote from: Hassan
    In fact this is one of the things that makes me so angry about Islam (and all religions that lay the guilt trip on it's followers). There are so many innocent, abused victims who end up blaming themselves because of this fucked-up religious mentality and all it does is throw them deeper into the arms of religion to seek a cure. There are a few who get out - but they are a few.


    I agree with you completely here. Religion has done more damage than possibly good.
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #15 - May 28, 2009, 10:30 AM

    In fact this is one of the things that makes me so angry about Islam (and all religions that lay the guilt trip on it's followers). There are so many innocent, abused victims who end up blaming themselves because of this fucked-up religious mentality and all it does is throw them deeper into the arms of religion to seek a cure. There are a few who get out - but they are a few.

    The numbers are increasing though Smiley Atheism is becoming more and more acceptable thanks to people like Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and the like.
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #16 - May 28, 2009, 12:32 PM

    muhhamad was... a stupid person when it came to logical thinking...


    I agree, but logic and reason was not a strong point of many in those times - particularly religious people.
  • Re: Good Comes from Allah, Evil from Myself?
     Reply #17 - May 28, 2009, 01:10 PM

    muhhamad was... a stupid person when it came to logical thinking...


    I agree, but logic and reason was not a strong point of many in those times - particularly religious people.


    ITs not true completely because there are other scriptures which have much more superior teachings to offer than islam . ITs not that they do not have faults but still some scriptures which were written centuries before Muhhamad contain some food for thought.Anyway I will start a new thread here as to why I consider Muhhamad as dumb and intellectually bankrupt using the quran itself.
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »