Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Gaza assault
Today at 10:05 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Today at 08:55 AM

Lights on the way
by akay
Yesterday at 03:08 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
January 23, 2025, 06:32 AM

New Britain
January 21, 2025, 11:54 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
January 20, 2025, 05:08 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 12:03 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 11:55 AM

News From Syria
by zeca
December 28, 2024, 12:29 AM

Mo Salah
December 26, 2024, 05:30 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
December 25, 2024, 10:58 AM

What's happened to the fo...
December 25, 2024, 02:29 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen

 (Read 4424 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     OP - June 02, 2009, 08:38 AM

    Atheists: No God, just whining

    Atheists are a tiresome, self-pitying bunch whose primary motivation isn't rationalism but anger

    I can't stand atheists ? but it's not because they don't believe in God. It's because they're crashing bores.

    Other people, most recently the British cultural critic Terry Eagleton in his new book, Faith, Reason and Revolution, take to task such superstar nonbelievers as Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion) and political journalist Christopher Hitchens (God Is Not Great) for indulging in a philosophically primitive opposition of faith and reason that assumes that if science can't prove something, it doesn't exist.

    My problem with atheists is their tiresome ? and way old ? insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What ? did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?

    Read Dawkins, or Hitchens, or the works of fellow atheists Sam Harris (The End of Faith) and Daniel Dennett (Breaking the Spell), or visit an atheist website or blog (there are zillions of them, bearing such titles as God Is for Suckers, God Is Imaginary and God Is Pretend), and your eyes will glaze over as you peruse ? again and again ? the obsessively tiny range of topics around which atheists circle like water in a drain.

    First off, there's atheist victimology: Boohoo, everybody hates us 'cuz we don't believe in God. Although a recent Pew Forum survey on religion found that 16% of Americans describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated, only 1.6% call themselves atheists, with another 2.4% weighing in as agnostics (a group despised as wishy-washy by atheists). You or I might attribute the low numbers to atheists' failure to win converts to their unbelief, but atheists say the problem is persecution so relentless that it drives tens of millions of God-deniers into a closet of feigned faith, like gays before Stonewall.

    In his online Atheist Manifesto, Harris writes that "no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that ... God exists." The evidence? Antique clauses in the constitutions of six ? count 'em ? states barring atheists from office.

    The US supreme court ruled such provisions unenforceable nearly 50 years ago, but that doesn't stop atheists from bewailing that they have to hide their Godlessness from friends, relatives, employers and potential dates. One representative of the pity-poor-me school of atheism, Kathleen Goodman, writing in January for the Chronicle of Higher Education, went so far as to promote affirmative action for atheists on college campuses: specially designated, college-subsidised "safe spaces" for them to express their views.

    Maybe atheists wouldn't be so unpopular if they stopped beating the drum until the hide splits on their second-favourite topic: How stupid people are who believe in God. This is a favourite Dawkins theme. In a recent interview with Trina Hoaks, the atheist blogger for the Examiner.com website, Dawkins described religious believers as follows: "They feel uneducated, which they are; often rather stupid, which they are; inferior, which they are; and paranoid about pointy-headed intellectuals from the East Coast looking down on them, which, with some justification, they do." Thanks, Richard!

    Dennett likes to call atheists "the brights", in contrast to everybody else, who obviously aren't so bright. In a 2006 essay describing his brush with death after a heart operation, Dennett wrote these thoughts about his religious friends who told him they were praying for his recovery: "Thanks, I appreciate it, but did you also sacrifice a goat?" With friends like Daniel Dennett, you don't need enemies.

    Then there's PZ Myers, biology professor at the University of Minnesota's Morris campus, whose blog, Pharyngula, is supposedly about Myers's field, evolutionary biology, but is actually about his fanatical propensity to label religious believers as "idiots", "morons", "loony" or "imbecilic" in nearly every post. The university deactivated its link to Myers' blog in July after he posted a photo of a consecrated host from a Mass that he had pierced with a rusty nail and thrown into the garbage ("I hope Jesus's tetanus shots are up to date") in an effort to prove that Catholicism is bunk ? or something.

    Myers's blog exemplifies atheists' frenzied fascination with Christianity and the Bible. Atheist website after atheist website insists that Jesus either didn't exist or "was a jerk" (in the words of one blogger) because he didn't eliminate smallpox or world poverty. At the American Atheists website, a writer complains that God "set up" Adam and Eve, knowing in advance that they would eat the forbidden fruit. A blogger on A Is for Atheist has been going through the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse in order to prove its "insanity" (he or she had gotten up to the Book of Joshua when I last looked).

    Another topic that atheists beat like the hammer on the anvil in the old Anacin commercials is Darwinism versus creationism. Maybe Darwin-o-mania stems from the fact that this year marks the bicentennial of Charles Darwin's birth in 1809, but haven't atheists heard that many religious people (including the late Pope John Paul II) don't have a problem with evolution but, rather, regard it as God's way of letting his living creation unfold? Furthermore, even if human nature as we know it is a matter of lucky adaptations, how exactly does that disprove the existence of God?

    And then there's the question of why atheists are so intent on trying to prove that God not only doesn't exist but is evil to boot. Dawkins, writing in The God Delusion, accuses the deity of being a "petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak" as well as a "misogynistic, homophobic, racist ... bully." If there is no God ? and you'd be way beyond stupid to think differently ? why does it matter whether he's good or evil?

    The problem with atheists ? and what makes them such excruciating snoozes ? is that few of them are interested in making serious metaphysical or epistemological arguments against God's existence, or in taking on the serious arguments that theologians have made attempting to reconcile, say, God's omniscience with free will or God's goodness with human suffering. Atheists seem to assume that the whole idea of God is a ridiculous absurdity, the "flying spaghetti monster" of atheists' typically lame jokes. They think that lobbing a few Gaza-style rockets accusing God of failing to create a world more to their liking ("If there's a God, why aren't I rich?" "If there's a God, why didn't he give me two heads so I could sleep with one head while I get some work done with the other?") will suffice to knock down the entire edifice of belief.

    What primarily seems to motivate atheists isn't rationalism but anger ? anger that the world isn't perfect, that someone forced them to go to church as children, that the Bible contains apparent contradictions, that human beings can be hypocrites and commit crimes in the name of faith. The vitriol is extraordinary. Hitchens thinks that "religion spoils everything". Dawkins contends that raising one's offspring in one's religion constitutes child abuse. Harris argues that it "may be ethical to kill people" on the basis of their beliefs. The perennial atheist litigant Michael Newdow sued (unsuccessfully) to bar President Obama from uttering the words "so help me God" when he took his oath of office.

    What atheists don't seem to realise is that even for believers, faith is never easy in this world of injustice, pain and delusion. Even for believers, God exists just beyond the scrim of the senses. So, atheists, how about losing the tired sarcasm and boring self-pity and engaging believers seriously?

    This article originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times.



    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #1 - June 02, 2009, 08:52 AM

     goodnight
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #2 - June 02, 2009, 08:56 AM

    What a load of ol tosh.  Cheesy

    Go onto a religious forum and your eyes will glaze over just as quickly only it would be even more nonsensical and pathetic.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #3 - June 02, 2009, 09:01 AM

    goodnight


    I'm with you on that one.

    Quote
    So, atheists, how about losing the tired sarcasm and boring self-pity and engaging believers seriously?


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this article REEK of sarcasm and cynicism? Fighting fire with fire are we?  Roll Eyes

  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #4 - June 02, 2009, 09:09 AM

    It's full of clangers. There's one right at the start.

    Quote
    a philosophically primitive opposition of faith and reason that assumes that if science can't prove something, it doesn't exist.

    Wrong. The assumption is that if there is no evidence for the existence of something then there is no reason to assume that it does exist. If Charlote Allen can't even get her head around that concept then I fail to see why anyone would waste their time attempting to engage her seriously.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #5 - June 02, 2009, 09:23 AM

    How did this article even make it into the L.A Times?

    It was just one big angry rant about atheists.
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #6 - June 02, 2009, 09:27 AM

    How did this article even make it into the L.A Times?

    It was just one big angry rant about atheists.


    It was republished in the Guardian but I couldnt post the link for some reason

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #7 - June 02, 2009, 09:27 AM

    This reminds me of my notes I used to write when I was Muslim about all the mistakes that non-Muslims make. It's the same style as well; I recognize my previous attitude in this article. I would pick out the worst of the bunch that I had come across at school or in the papers and go on about their misconception. It made me feel as though I was really proving my faith to be correct. I look back on them now with embarassment. They are an entertaining read though.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #8 - June 02, 2009, 03:33 PM

    Even for believers, God exists just beyond the scrim of the senses.

    I quite liked the article, particularly the above line.  Make you realise, believers too struggle with the concept (like I did as a believer), but are just not as open & honest with their thoughts. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #9 - June 02, 2009, 08:03 PM

    It was republished in the Guardian but I couldnt post the link for some reason

    I believe it got to CIF (comment is free) only - standards there are rather poor, as one can see.
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #10 - June 02, 2009, 08:36 PM

    Quote
    Harris argues that it "may be ethical to kill people" on the basis of their beliefs.


    Maybe she should read some religious scripture to see how kindly non-believers are supposed to be treated, instead of taking Harris out of context.

    What a load of utter crap, that entire article.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #11 - June 02, 2009, 08:50 PM

    I suggest AW re-reads it, and mentally replaces the word atheist with muslim throughout. 

    (Hint - muslims aren't the only ones who are sick of being on the receiving end of bigotry, stupid generalisations, etc).

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #12 - June 02, 2009, 11:39 PM

     Another ignorant fool who has failed to grasp that simply rejecting one idea does not neccessarily imply uniformity of thought with the millions of others who don't buy into her own personal superstition..... makes me wnt to give her a slap ( whilst whining loudly of course)
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #13 - June 03, 2009, 12:51 AM

    Dear Ms. Allen,

    You are a stupid cunt

    Cordially,

    The Q-Man

    fuck you
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #14 - June 03, 2009, 10:29 AM

    ooooooh where to start  whistling2

    Atheists are a tiresome, self-pitying bunch whose primary motivation isn't rationalism but anger

    I can't stand atheists ? but it's not because they don't believe in God. It's because they're crashing bores.


    Replace atheists with any other group name and you get the idea the intellectual level of the writer. Unless the writer has met every atheist before coming to  this conclusion then the statement is just another sweeping generalisation beloved of racists homophobes and a plethora of other phobes. It sets the tone for the whole piece and one would be forgiven for stopping right here-


    Other people, most recently the British cultural critic Terry Eagleton in his new book, Faith, Reason and Revolution, take to task such superstar nonbelievers as Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion) and political journalist Christopher Hitchens (God Is Not Great) for indulging in a philosophically primitive opposition of faith and reason that assumes that if science can't prove something, it doesn't exist.

    Fails to mention here that what Eagleton (and by association I assume she)  then posits  is that if science can?t prove it then the default conclusion is  God exists whilst offering no proof whatsoever.

     . What ? did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?

    Given the number of recorded cases ( in their hundreds of thousands ) of what faith heads did with children's  behinds , that was an ill-advised analogy.
    However , most people are atheists becuase they thought it out and saw the bullshit at work or were lucky enough not to have been indoctrinated as a child and thus impervious to the voodoo that you do.

    Read Dawkins, or Hitchens, or the works of fellow atheists Sam Harris (The End of Faith) and Daniel Dennett (Breaking the Spell), or visit an atheist website or blog (there are zillions of them, bearing such titles as God Is for Suckers, God Is Imaginary and God Is Pretend), and your eyes will glaze over as you peruse ? again and again ? the obsessively tiny range of topics around which atheists circle like water in a drain.

     as oppossed to the many  in-depth topics of faith. here is just a few short examples:
    1God did it.
    2He did.
    3Yes he did.

    First off, there's atheist victimology: Boohoo, everybody hates us 'cuz we don't believe in God. Although a recent Pew Forum survey on religion found that 16% of Americans describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated, only 1.6% call themselves atheists, with another 2.4% weighing in as agnostics (a group despised as wishy-washy by atheists). You or I might attribute the low numbers to atheists' failure to win converts to their unbelief, but atheists say the problem is persecution so relentless that it drives tens of millions of God-deniers into a closet of feigned faith, like gays before Stonewall.
     
    Is this really a christian i have before me ridiculing someone for feeling persecuted. Mwhahah , oh the fucking irony. Wont even get into the clumsy and self-serving use of made-up statistics.Lying for Jesus again. Im glad that christianity holds her morals in check , imagine if they didnt ? Blanket over the head on crimewatch for her methinks.



    In his online Atheist Manifesto, Harris writes that "no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that ... God exists." The evidence? Antique clauses in the constitutions of six ? count 'em ? states barring atheists from office.

    If just one tiny village council overseeing a population of 200 had a clause saying 'no faithheads' the righteous moral majority  would be down there shooting them like abortion doctors in a barrel.

    Dawkins described religious believers as follows: "They feel uneducated, which they are; often rather stupid, which they are; inferior, which they are; and paranoid about pointy-headed intellectuals from the East Coast looking down on them, which, with some justification, they do." Thanks, Richard!
    Yes thanks Richard Smiley

    Dennett likes to call atheists "the brights", in contrast to everybody else, who obviously aren't so bright. In a 2006 essay describing his brush with death after a heart operation, Dennett wrote these thoughts about his religious friends who told him they were praying for his recovery: "Thanks, I appreciate it, but did you also sacrifice a goat?" With friends like Daniel Dennett, you don't need enemies.
    Wooooosh!  She isnt  very bright is she.

    Then there's PZ Myers, biology professor at the University of Minnesota's Morris campus, whose blog, Pharyngula, is supposedly about Myers's field, evolutionary biology, but is actually about his fanatical propensity to label religious believers as "idiots", "morons", "loony" or "imbecilic" in nearly every post.
    Now theres a guy who's tested his theories. Wink
     But wait , doesnt this very article label non-believers as 'Tiresome , crashing bores , angry self-pitying yadda yadda yadda blah blah '
    The hypocrisy drips from this lady like snot from a swine flu afflicted nose.

    Was going to comment on more of this , but I think I've lost the will to live.
    Another article to be filed under ' Pile of fucking shite '




    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #15 - June 03, 2009, 10:37 AM

    I suggest AW re-reads it, and mentally replaces the word atheist with muslim throughout. 

    (Hint - muslims aren't the only ones who are sick of being on the receiving end of bigotry, stupid generalisations, etc).


    Yeah, Id be pretty pissed off but then again I dont agree with the article and I posted it in the lounge (which indicates how seriously I regard the piece).

    You'd have a point if I would have added a comment of my own.

    And that article is mild compared to some of the posts about Muslims I read, even here.

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #16 - June 03, 2009, 11:09 AM

    Yeah, Id be pretty pissed off but then again I dont agree with the article and I posted it in the lounge (which indicates how seriously I regard the piece).  You'd have a point if I would have added a comment of my own.

    And that article is mild compared to some of the posts about Muslims I read, even here.



    Hmm,If you dont regard it, then why post it?  We dont normally quote 3rd party sources unless we have a point to make.  Even ones that slip through the net and are making falsehoods about Islam, as you will have noticed, then there is normally someone who will point out the flaws in it.  Poor show.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #17 - June 03, 2009, 11:20 AM

    AW was just posting it so we can have something to laugh at. Come on, don't insult his intelligence...

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #18 - June 03, 2009, 11:35 AM

    It's good to read what the religious are saying about atheists/agnostics, which many of us here claim to be, especially when major publications are printing it.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #19 - June 03, 2009, 12:34 PM

    Yeah, Id be pretty pissed off but then again I dont agree with the article and I posted it in the lounge (which indicates how seriously I regard the piece).

    You'd have a point if I would have added a comment of my own.

    And that article is mild compared to some of the posts about Muslims I read, even here.


    I wasn't trying to score a point, just illustrating the bigotry of the writer.

    As to the bolded part of your post, can you show me an example?


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #20 - June 03, 2009, 12:57 PM

    One thing theists (and this article points out) always tend to assume is that we think ourselves as intellectuals.   No-one has made that claim here (apart from Tut, but he's another story) nor in the media.

    In which case they must see us & our point of view as reasoned and an intelligent one?  If that is the case then why not adopt it?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #21 - June 03, 2009, 02:03 PM

    Hmm,If you dont regard it, then why post it?  We dont normally quote 3rd party sources unless we have a point to make.  Even ones that slip through the net and are making falsehoods about Islam, as you will have noticed, then there is normally someone who will point out the flaws in it.  Poor show.



    Is that the rule in the lounge now Sir?

    unbelievable

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #22 - June 03, 2009, 02:09 PM

    Is that the rule in the lounge now Sir?

    unbelievable

    Not a rule, just wondering why you would want to post it?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #23 - June 03, 2009, 02:25 PM

    Not a rule, just wondering why you would want to post it?


    Because I felt like it

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #24 - June 03, 2009, 02:55 PM

    Why you avoiding the question?  There's no need to be evasive.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #25 - June 03, 2009, 03:09 PM

    Why you avoiding the question?  There's no need to be evasive.


    Saw an interesting article, felt like posting it, there really isn't much more to it.


    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #26 - June 03, 2009, 05:24 PM

    And that article is mild compared to some of the posts about Muslims I read, even here.


    Like?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Atheists: No God, just whining- Charlotte Allen
     Reply #27 - June 03, 2009, 05:29 PM

    And that article is mild compared to some of the posts about Muslims I read, even here.

    Really?  Have you read your fellow Muslim Kope's blog yet (its on his profile).  It was not even a forum post, he spent time compiling it outside of this forum!  After you have read it, please come back here and let us know your comments.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »