How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?

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- Rashna
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How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
OP - June 06, 2009, 07:57 PM

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html

Here's a nice one from Sunan Abu Dawud. Here, Muhammed really outdoes himself and goes beyond even his own brutal standards of punishment.

Book 38, Number 4396:

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:

A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him).

He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off.

He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him.

The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!

Then he said: Cut off his foot.

So his (left) foot was cut off.

He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him.

The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!

So he said: Cut off his hand.So his (left) hand was cut off.

He was brought a fourth time and he said: Kill him.

The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!

So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off.

He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him.

So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him

How did this man manage to still be a thief & steal a fifth time despite having no hands & no feet?
Wouldn't he be bedridden? How could he move about & even steal?

Were there prosthetics in Muhammad's Arabia & the amputees were quikly fitted with those?

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #1 - June 06, 2009, 09:21 PM

Any answers? How did he manage to steal a 5^th time without hands & feet?

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
- Cheetah
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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #2 - June 06, 2009, 09:34 PM

I dunno. With his mouth, maybe? I expect if you asked a muslim this question it would be either a weak hadith, or a metaphor for a larger message. That's a guess though, I don't know.

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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #3 - June 06, 2009, 09:52 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on June 06, 2009, 09:34 PM
I dunno. With his mouth, maybe? I expect if you asked a muslim this question it would be either a weak hadith, or a metaphor for a larger message. That's a guess though, I don't know.

His mouth must be. It can't be a weak hadith because its in the Sihah Sittah & while it might indeed be a metaphor, Muhammad isn't a mythological character or regarded as such, he's supposedly historical & amputation is the punishment for theft mentioned in the Quran, not even hadiths, like stonings or Ayesha's youth are mentioned only in hadiths.

"[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they earned [i.e. committed] as a deterrent [punishment] from Allaah. And Allaah is Exalted in Might and Wise." [Quran 5:38]

So by ordering amputations Muhammad was ordering exactly what Allah had dictated in the Quran.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #4 - June 06, 2009, 09:55 PM

I'd say it's just a story to scare people into not stealing, it doesn't sound realistic to me. I hear many times from muslims that this is an effective deterrent as theft is very minimal in muslim countries that practice this and they justify it with that. I'm not sure if that's actually true but I wonder if the punishment was actually inhumane torture would they still try to justify it with that? It might be a deterrent but is it justifiable to take it that far? Cutting off limbs is still torture imo and is a ridiculous punishment and unnecessary.

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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #5 - June 06, 2009, 10:10 PM

Quote from: PeruvianSkies on June 06, 2009, 09:55 PM
I'd say it's just a story to scare people into not stealing, it doesn't sound realistic to me. I hear many times from muslims that this is an effective deterrent as theft is very minimal in muslim countries that practice this and they justify it with that. I'm not sure if that's actually true but I wonder if the punishment was actually inhumane torture would they still try to justify it with that? It might be a deterrent but is it justifiable to take it that far? Cutting off limbs is still torture imo and is a ridiculous punishment and unnecessary.

Well, there are still amputations in some countries that follow Shariah law, like Somalia., so the deterrent isn't limited to the text, its actual practice as well.

I too think this story is pretty ridiculous & somewhat far fetched.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
- awais
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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #6 - June 08, 2009, 01:20 PM

I remember discussing this with my old salafi friend. He said that cutting the hand only occurs for the theft equivalent to what would feed a man for a day. So a person could get his hand chopped off for stealing a cup of noodles or two?

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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #7 - June 14, 2009, 04:05 PM

I thought about it too...

Maybe he was dying from hunger and just snatched sth with his mouth or he did it on purpose in order to be killed (a way of commiting suicied)
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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #8 - June 14, 2009, 04:43 PM

I think this story was made up.

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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #9 - June 14, 2009, 04:51 PM

Quote from: NineBerry on June 14, 2009, 04:43 PM
I think this story was made up.

Well duh lol it is from the hadiths and it is religious lol ergo it could only be made up.

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Re: How on Earth did this Man still manage to steal?
Reply #10 - June 14, 2009, 10:25 PM

Do you think that this guy ever stole again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqh-kp4XvD0&feature=channel_page

I were going to make a new topic, but it fits nicely into this one. This is in India by the way, and the police tied the thief to his motorbike and drove him around.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

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