Being ex-Muslim 3 years on

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Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
OP - July 06, 2009, 12:46 PM

It has been 3 years now since I officially decided that Islam was nothing more than an Arab myth designed to conquer and control other people. It has been a strange 3 years since I still haven't informed my wife and we are raising our children as Muslims. In a way I am a lot happier since Islam didn't make much sense and now I know why. I have had a number of borderline conversations which people who are close to me and this has revealed some surprising results for me.

I have recently realised that a member of my family is also an ex-Muslim and he is perhaps the only person who knows that I am too. Many other Muslims do agree that Islam and religions in general carry many anomolies and they could be tempted if I pushed hard. But I not ready to become known as the militant atheist yet in my social circle. I have been open with my sceptism of Muslim behaviour, however, and that has generated enmity in itself.

Looking back over the last 3 years I think leaving Islam was the best thing I ever did. Right now I am more convinced then ever that the whole thing is a medival concoction. Not only that but it is dangerous and holds people back. It restricts your thinking and makes you narrow minded. It stifles creativity and leads to a life of guilt and resentment. However, I do feel slightly strange having to lead this double life and sometimes saying things I don't believe in.

I have also come to the conclusion that most other religions are also false but Islam is unique in that most of its adherents are not prepared to move with the times and are prepared to resort to violence so easily. I fear for the future and I fear for my children, I don't want to raise them as narrow minded bigots and I try to keep Islam as further away from them as possible. Hopefully I can explain all when they are older.

Keep up the good work chaps, i.e. those who actually are ex-Muslims and feel as I do.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #1 - July 06, 2009, 12:58 PM

3 years and you are still raising your kids as muslims and keeping it a secret from your wife? why pakman? don't you think your kids deserve a chance too? or that your wife may be convinced to come around to your way of thinking?

Honestly, I'm not criticising, I just couldn't live day in and day out with someone that I had to keep secrets from, I really don't know how you, or any of the other ex muslims who live day in and day with their family, actually manage to do it.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #2 - July 06, 2009, 01:03 PM

I understand where you are coming from but it is very difficult with me due to our huge extended family and inter-dependent social network. Also it would be a disaster on a professional level too.

However, progress has been made we hardly ever talk about religion, none of us pray or fast, we avoid all Islamic events and practising types and she has become a lot more open minded recently. So Islam is not stopping us from doing that many things that we would like to do anyhow. My son is almost 7 and still doesn't have a clue about religion and doesn't seem interested either.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #3 - July 06, 2009, 01:04 PM

Ah, that sounds much better actually. I was visualising something a whole lot more intense.

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #4 - July 06, 2009, 01:22 PM

Same here. I was thinking that too.

I think many here have come from similar backgrounds to you with large families, so dont think that is a reason to be an exception. The softly softly approach is the best one. I would start off by saying there maybe a God but we have no proof. And you will try to be the best person you can, because that is the test for heaven.

You may run into problems further down the road if you stay as you are. Your son is at the age now when you should be thinking about teaching his Arabic and reading the Quran. What are you going to do? What does you wife think you believe? Is she 100% muslim?

It must be hard leading this double life?

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #5 - July 06, 2009, 01:38 PM

I have managed to put off the Islam classes saying I will teach him myself. I think she is 100% Muslims but she is capable of a critical discussion she just gets very uncomfortable and emotional about such things and it always ends in an argument. Then again many Muslims are simply not open minded when it comes to religion. Or is that just South Asians.

I think the best approach is to encourage open-mindedness and avoid making decisions on the basis of this horrible ugly religion. Thanks for your words of encouragement.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #6 - July 06, 2009, 03:15 PM

Hello Pakman,

I was in the same boat few years back as you are now! I used to live a double life in my community and at home. However, I could not bare to lie to my dear wife so I told her. I told her what I thought about religion in general and about Islam in particular, and I am extremely glad that I did....

However, my confession was kind of gradual. I mentioned to her from the very beginning of our marriage that I was strongly against circumcision, and that I wish she does not insist on having our boys circumcised if we were to have baby boys. Luckily in our part of the Muslim world girls are not circumcised...

To my surprise, She told me straightaway that she did not like the idea of circumcision anyway, and that she thought it was a cruel cultural custom that she hoped it disappeared. After that, every now and then, I would pick on the silly rituals and the weird facts Islam have, such as how it is believed that a woman's brain equals half of a man's brain and how Islam says that the majority of Hell residents were women etc...

She used to be a dedicated Muslim who prays 5 times a day, then gradually was convinced that a cruel God who asked people to kill each other just because they did not believe in him or disagreed with his prophets was not worth the hassle.

Anyway, we live very happily now, although to the outer world we are still a Muslim family, but a non-practicing one. Friends and family continuously brag about how their kids pray the 5 times and how well they were taught in the proper Islamic way. This does not bother us at all.

I continuously urge my kids to watch scientific programs on Discovery and National Geographic Channel and I am sure I will be a good support when they reach the age of decision.

So good luck to you, while I still recommend that you tell your wife about what you believe in as soon as you can. It is a great relief to be able to discuss it with some one you care about...

...
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #7 - July 06, 2009, 03:25 PM

Thanks RIBS

You are very lucky in that you have a wife that understands. I think me coming out right now will probably end in divorce which is not what i want. But life is uncomfortable. Thanks for your kind words.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #8 - July 06, 2009, 03:29 PM

Hi Pakman - happy 3rd anniversay lol

Doesn't time fly?

It's been 2 and a half years since I consciously and openly accepted I was no-longer a Muslim.

Seems like yesterday!
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #9 - July 06, 2009, 03:36 PM

When its my 5th anniversary I'll invite you all round for tea and crumpets.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #10 - July 06, 2009, 03:43 PM

You mean alcohol and ham sandwiches dont you?

Or are you planning never on telling you're family you are not a Muslim? (imo if my wife wanted to divource me for saying I no longer believed in Islam, I would question why I was with her in the first place!)

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #11 - July 06, 2009, 03:45 PM

I hope you don't mind me asking, pakman, but did you get married from back home or from England? Its just I'm in quite a similar situation to you by the look of it, (except I don't have kids), and I was wandering how easy it is for you to live this double life.

Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #12 - July 06, 2009, 03:46 PM

Quote from: IsLame on July 06, 2009, 03:43 PM
You mean alcohol and ham sandwiches dont you?

Or are you planning never on telling you're family you are not a Muslim? (imo if my wife wanted to divource me for saying I no longer believed in Islam, I would question why I was with her in the first place!)

Absolutely, totally agreed.

Either you love me for who I am, or you don't get to love me anymore. I did the whole "trying to please people" thing and it's a waste of emotional time.

I understand that there are kids involved though, the fear that she would prevent you from seeing your son would have quite a crippling hold on not being able to be totally upfront about how you feel.

The sad thing is she could potentially keep you away from your son for over a year possibly, whilst you fight to prove you had a right to see your son. Althought eh courts would rule in your favour for visiting rights, it would take along time and udring that time you might not even see your son.

Very hard for you.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #13 - July 06, 2009, 03:47 PM

Quote from: IsLame on July 06, 2009, 03:43 PM
You mean alcohol and ham sandwiches dont you?

Or are you planning never on telling you're family you are not a Muslim? (imo if my wife wanted to divource me for saying I no longer believed in Islam, I would question why I was with her in the first place!)

But you are forgetting that it is a sin for a Muslim woman to be married to a non muslim man. She might want to be with you but fears god and hell too much and might have to make that sacrifice to save her own skin in the afterlife.

Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #14 - July 06, 2009, 03:48 PM

Of course there will be alcohol, may even get some strippers in but that will raise issues of gender equality.

I married a girl from Britain but she is quite traditional minded. It is difficult.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #15 - July 06, 2009, 03:52 PM

To be perfectly honest guys (and this has got very little to do with Islam) but for the past 3 years we have virtually been living like flatmates. The kids keep us together, take them away and there is no common ground.

She isn't religious but very cultural. Don't really know what to do because it will just cause so much hurt and pain to so many people.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #16 - July 06, 2009, 04:06 PM

Wish you all the best in whatever choices you make. You are in the best position to decide if you want to stay with her all your life. You are unlucky that you became ex-muslim after marriage, so it was harder to be honest and find someone from the beginning that was open-minded enough to accept it.

However I still believe your best course of action is to be honest with yourself, and with others around you. It is a shame that it may come with consequences, and if they are too much to bear and you wish you had remained dishonest, you can always suddenly "see the light" and get back to rolling up your trousers half-way up your ankles.

Pretty much everyone I know now accepts I am an ex-muslim. Even my dads friends, some of them argue, some get pissed off, some find it refreshing, some think I am just a wacko and joke about it. They still invite me round to their house to break fasts and joke about and tell me to join the line for prayers, but I watch TV instead.

And I wouldnt have had it any other way.

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #17 - July 06, 2009, 04:09 PM

Quote from: pakman on July 06, 2009, 03:52 PM
To be perfectly honest guys (and this has got very little to do with Islam) but for the past 3 years we have virtually been living like flatmates. The kids keep us together, take them away and there is no common ground.

She isn't religious but very cultural. Don't really know what to do because it will just cause so much hurt and pain to so many people.

How old are the kids?

My advice is stay together if at all possible.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #18 - July 06, 2009, 05:56 PM

Quote from: Hassan on July 06, 2009, 04:09 PM
How old are the kids?

My advice is stay together if at all possible.

I am with Hassan, for the sake of the Kids don't rush things!

It might take time but by reasoning you might get her to understand eventually!

...
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #19 - July 06, 2009, 07:44 PM

Kids are still very young, if they were in their late teens then things would be very different. I think I have no choice but to keep it to myself for now and just hope the rest of the Muslims realise how absurd following Arab cults in the 21st century is.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #20 - July 06, 2009, 08:09 PM

Quote from: pakman on July 06, 2009, 07:44 PM
Kids are still very young, if they were in their late teens then things would be very different. I think I have no choice but to keep it to myself for now and just hope the rest of the Muslims realise how absurd following Arab cults in the 21st century is.

It's difficult - my thoughts are with you mate
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #21 - July 06, 2009, 08:30 PM

Quote from: pakman on July 06, 2009, 07:44 PM
Kids are still very young, if they were in their late teens then things would be very different. I think I have no choice but to keep it to myself for now and just hope the rest of the Muslims realise how absurd following Arab cults in the 21st century is.

If I were still a Muslim i would have said: "God be with you"!! But I found out that it really does not make any difference!!

...
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #22 - July 06, 2009, 08:33 PM

Hassan please don't answer if you don't feel like answering: Your marriage did not break up because of religion, Am I right?

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #23 - July 07, 2009, 12:17 PM

Quote from: RIBS on July 06, 2009, 08:33 PM
Hassan please don't answer if you don't feel like answering: Your marriage did not break up because of religion, Am I right?

No, not really, but in hindsight I can see that it did contribute to the growing gulf between us. I didn't realise it at the time though.
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #24 - July 07, 2009, 12:51 PM

Hassan - just wondering from your earlier reply in this thread, would you pretend to me a muslim, in order to hold onto a marriage?

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #25 - July 07, 2009, 01:03 PM

Quote from: IsLame on July 07, 2009, 12:51 PM
Hassan - just wondering from your earlier reply in this thread, would you pretend to me a muslim, in order to hold onto a marriage?

Hmm... No I don't think so - mainly because I'm simply not good at pretending. I'd find it too hard to hide my feelings and keep my mouth shut. lol
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #26 - July 07, 2009, 02:01 PM

Quote from: Hassan on July 07, 2009, 12:17 PM
No, not really, but in hindsight I can see that it did contribute to the growing gulf between us. I didn't realise it at the time though.

If religion ever contribute to destruction of a marriage then that would be a very good reason indeed to hate religion even more! Religion obviously make relationship with people you care about more difficult I understand. What a strange way to worship God!!!

This is an incredible video that I liked very much!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAIpRRZvnJg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eatheistcampaign%2Eorg%2F&feature=player_embedded

...
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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #27 - July 07, 2009, 02:10 PM

The little boy is me.

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #28 - July 07, 2009, 03:17 PM

I have to say, the recent advice has spurred me to make a different thread.

2 mins.

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Re: Being ex-Muslim 3 years on
Reply #29 - July 08, 2009, 11:20 AM

I have to say that I've only recently within the past 3-4 months accepted that I'm an atheist. I'm in my mid-thirties and my doubts started coming to the surface when I was 14 years old. I suppose I suppressed them thinking that the problem was with me and not the religion. This I did for about 20 years. I remember I became a practising muslim 1st at the age of 18 for about a year then I picked up again at the age of 28. The 2nd time round I really did take it seriously but I also had lots of unanswered questions and doubts. I was always told that the doubts would go away and that Allah is testing my "iman". I continued with it practising grew a beard and prayed 5 times a day and make dua that my doubts would go away. Well those prayers were not answered. I told my friends that I had doubts, they couldn't understand why I had the doubts and basically told me not to give up. Anyway there were just too many gaps within religion and the very existence of the type of god that the religions were presenting. My wife has known that I've had my doubts and recently I've told her that I'm an atheist. I've also told my children about my atheism and have also told them that they should learn about religion but they should always be objective and never shy away from asking questions. My wife has asked me not to broadcast my atheism because of the shame that it might bring on the family etc etc. There are only a handful of people in my family that know as well as my non-muslim friends. My muslim friends don't know and I don't see the point in telling them anyway. I live in a northern city in england which has a very large muslim minority and I think they generally assume that people believe in god and that islam is watertight. I'm 100% sure that there are others like me where I live but for the same reasons as me don't wish to declare it. I hope my children don't have to endure this problem when they finally decide on this issue. The other problem I've encountered is that there isn't enough literature for ex-muslims to read which reflects their circumstances. There is plenty of material for atheists who come from a judeo/christian background but thats about it. There are works by Ibn Warraq who is very brave for writing this material and by Ayaan Hirsi Ali but thats all there is really. When it comes to relationships with your spouse, if he/she is a nominal muslim and non practising then there is no problem, they usually deal with it and cope with their partners atheism. If the partner is a practisisng zealot then you might have a problem, if there are kids involved the situation can get messy. It is best to lay ones cards on the table and see what happens.
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