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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Women to blame
  • Yes, she should dress differently if she doesn't want to be touched by strangers - 4 (14.8%)
  • No, the onus is on the shitty men who have no idea what boundaries are - 23 (85.2%)
  • Total Voters: 27

 Topic: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!

 (Read 12511 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #30 - July 14, 2009, 02:01 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 14, 2009, 01:57 PM
    It could be worse, look at this....

    Several Sudanese women have been flogged as a punishment for dressing "indecently", according to a local journalist who was arrested with them.

    Lubna Ahmed al-Hussein, who says she is facing 40 lashes, said she and 12 other women wearing trousers were arrested in a restaurant in the capital, Khartoum.

    She told the BBC several of the women had pleaded guilty to the charges and had 10 lashes immediately.

    Khartoum, unlike South Sudan, is governed by Sharia law.

    Several of those punished were from the mainly Christian and animist south, Ms Hussein said.

    Non-Muslims are not supposed to be subject to Islamic law, even in Khartoum and other parts of the mainly Muslim north.

    She said that a group of about 20 or 30 police officers entered the popular Khartoum restaurant and arrested all the women wearing trousers.

    "I was wearing trousers and a blouse and the 10 girls who were lashed were wearing like me, there was no difference," she told the BBC's Arabic service.

    Ms Hussein said some women pleaded guilty to "get it over with" but others, including herself, chose to speak to their lawyers and are awaiting their fates.

    Under Sharia law in Khartoum, the normal punishment for "indecent" dressing is 40 lashes.

    Ms Hussein is a well-known reporter who writes a weekly column called Men Talk for Sudanese papers. She also works for the United Nations Mission in Sudan.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8147329.stm


    That is fucked up   finmad

    It just goes to show that the limits of indecent dress are about perception. What women like Berbs and I see as not indecent, can be seen as indecent by many people. Similarly (and mainly due to religious restrictions) in cases like the reported, even trousers are seen as indecent.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #31 - July 14, 2009, 02:02 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 14, 2009, 01:57 PM
    It could be worse, look at this....
    <snip>


    Yes, it could be.  Cry

    It's true, the response we get now has changed alot.  I guess in face of putting things into perspective like this, this is the first reply that gives me closure, from both forums.

    Thanks cheetah, I;m not sure you are aware of just how awesome you are.  Afro
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #32 - July 14, 2009, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on July 14, 2009, 01:58 PM
    Like Berbs said, you wouldn't make a move on a mate's wife no matter her dress.


    Exactly, believe you me, I will spend alot of time drumming home this boundary to my sons.  Hopefully the generation we raise next will be even more relaxed about dress and even more aware of the fact that there is no such thing as a Ho's uniform.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #33 - July 14, 2009, 02:12 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on July 14, 2009, 02:01 PM
    Really?  because it's the opposite amongst all the jamaican girls I know lol they go raving in kingston jamaica wearing bikini's, my friend showed me a picture of her whilst she was out there, she is jamaican, and she wore a see through dress, no bra and a white thong.






    Yup and there's a lot of groping going on in those clubs
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #34 - July 14, 2009, 02:14 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on July 14, 2009, 01:55 PM
    So you are comparing men exposed to women's skin, to a thief exposed to money? Really?

    Men really don't have that much self control?  Huh?


    Because guys feel like they are the alpha male and control 'their women'?

    There's no sexual element to me dressing in a bikini going swimming in the ocean or sunbathing to relax...


    Of course there is, men go there to watch girls because they are sexually attracted to women.
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #35 - July 14, 2009, 02:17 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on July 14, 2009, 02:02 PM
    Yes, it could be.  Cry

    It's true, the response we get now has changed alot.  I guess in face of putting things into perspective like this, this is the first reply that gives me closure, from both forums.

    Thanks cheetah, I;m not sure you are aware of just how awesome you are.  Afro


    I'm great, amn't I?   grin12

    Srsly though, the more that mentality is pandered to the more restrictive the definition of "indecent" becomes.  So, tempting as it can be to dress down to avoid the idiots, I think we just have to wear what we want and be prepared to give a swift knee to the balls if necessary.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #36 - July 14, 2009, 02:22 PM
    The sad truth is that some people enjoy disrespecting others. Some people like to get drunk and grope. Some don't think an evening is complete until they punch somebody's lights out.

    The best club in my neighbourhood has an army of enthusiastic bouncers inside and a gang of cops waiting outside for those who don't immediately smarten up after being tossed into the fresh air
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #37 - July 14, 2009, 02:24 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on July 14, 2009, 01:23 PM
    Bullshit, you are calling men completely weak, unable to control their baser instincts, this isn't a valid excuse, it's a cop out.

    It's not an excuse Berbs, it's a reason. The fact that you don't like it wont make a difference, the fact that you feel like you have a right to wear what you want wont make a difference. There are a lot of idiots at clubs and if they see a women wearing something very revealing they will only think one thing.

    All you can do is learn to defend yourself or dress down, I'm guessing you prefer the former Tongue

    There's also the fact that you are at a club, some people have the mentality that everyone there is out to pull, especially those dressed enticingly.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #38 - July 14, 2009, 02:26 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on July 14, 2009, 01:42 PM
    No, sorry if I am mistaken.  It's not my intention to appear as if your disagreement is super bad, I am actually interested.




    The argument as I see it is that one has the responsability to take it on themselves to avoid circumstances where such violations (groping) is likely.

    As an example, the girl who gets dead drunk at a fraternity party dressed like little Kim is a fool if she considers herself the victim of groping.  

    Its called common sense, some women dress suggestively and then complain they're being oggled at (not even groped).

    Im not saying they have a right to grope you but you are in a nightclub charged with sexual energy with young men (and women) competing for power and female attention...it comes with the territory.
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #39 - July 14, 2009, 02:59 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 14, 2009, 02:17 PM
    I'm great, amn't I?   grin12

    Srsly though, the more that mentality is pandered to the more restrictive the definition of "indecent" becomes.  So, tempting as it can be to dress down to avoid the idiots, I think we just have to wear what we want and be prepared to give a swift knee to the balls if necessary.


     yes  Total agreement from me. 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #40 - July 14, 2009, 03:01 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on July 14, 2009, 02:26 PM
    The argument as I see it is that one has the responsability to take it on themselves to avoid circumstances where such violations (groping) is likely.

    As an example, the girl who gets dead drunk at a fraternity party dressed like little Kim is a fool if she considers herself the victim of groping. 

    Its called common sense, some women dress suggestively and then complain they're being oggled at (not even groped).

    Im not saying they have a right to grope you but you are in a nightclub charged with sexual energy with young men (and women) competing for power and female attention...it comes with the territory.


    I don't have a problem with being ogled, infact I get a kick out of it, I just think certain limitations should be standard common sense.

    Anyway I get the rational explanation for it at this time, I'm just more determined to fight to change it.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #41 - July 14, 2009, 03:03 PM
    There is a very high proportion of young asian blokes who are total wankers and don't know how to behave around women (unless they are 15 year old girls). They were probably the same type of blokes that hire a mercedes and drive up and down alum rock road beeping at women.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #42 - July 14, 2009, 03:12 PM
    Most likely.

    Like I said, they were asian so the response shouldn't have surprised me, the white british men at the club were much more subtle about trying to get my attention.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #43 - July 14, 2009, 03:18 PM
    How old were they? There are so many lads like that who make me feel embarrassed about my  background! You see them all the time trying to chat up women by spouting abuse at them! Not the cleverest bunch!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #44 - July 14, 2009, 03:20 PM
    I have no idea, maybe early 20's?  kind of young wannabe gangsters.  Roll Eyes
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #45 - July 14, 2009, 03:20 PM
    Yeah, I know the type!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #46 - July 14, 2009, 03:23 PM
    Bunch of idiots right?  Cheesy
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #47 - July 14, 2009, 03:29 PM
    Yeah, you got it!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #48 - July 14, 2009, 03:39 PM
    I see the young Asian men eyeing up the young hijabi uni-students in front of my work all the time.  They are SO obvious about it too!

    Berbs, from my experience and that of several of my friends, most young Asian lads are seriously immature compared to their white, British counterparts.  No offense meant to the young Asian male members of our little family here though!  far away hug
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #49 - July 14, 2009, 04:56 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on July 14, 2009, 08:45 AM
    I went out clubbing this weekend, and spent alot of the night fending off PHYSICAL moves from guys that literally just grabbed me, or tried to kiss me without my permission, or even a hint of an invite, squashing me, grinding up on me etc etc.  I'm sure you get the picture.

    Actually it was the worst hassle I have had in well, since I was in morocco aged 13 and I was groped by men no matter where I went, even to the shops.

    Now, the guys that were being physical were all asian guys, pakistanis or inidians I;m not sure.  So I can see the motive behind their actions.  My outfit would have driven them nuts, but what I didn;t expect was the reaction from people not of that culture, when I had a vent about it on another site I use.

    I was told by many different posters, that if you dress a certain way or dance a certain way, then I shouldn't be surprised.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/bonfire/19234-hands-off-i-don-t-even-know-you.html

    Wait, what?

    So an explanation makes this ok?  because we can rationalise the cause and effect, we can forgive the effect?

    Let's not forget, the last time I made a thread here asking for advice on how to make a move on a man I was also advised to be careful what I was wearing so as not to give off the wrong signals.  This I put down to the fact that we are mostly ex muslims so we are all harbouring a few silly backwards ideas.

    Lo and behold, I am wrong.

    How maddeningly frustrating.

    I'm attaching a poll because I would like to see how many of the members here think that a woman is responsible for the reaction men have to her if she is just innocently dancing to a song she enjoys wearing an outfit she likes.


    What a woman wears can never be an excuse for a man to behave badly.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #50 - July 14, 2009, 05:09 PM
    Exactly.  Afro
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #51 - July 14, 2009, 05:25 PM
    I went to a club once and a young lady came right up to me and started massaging my nuts while she was talking to me. I was too embarrassed to tell her to stop. Then she asked me if I wanted a private dance. I couldn't believe how forward she was. Apparantly this kind of behaviour was the norm in this club. A few of the girls were even taking their clothes off and swinging on a pole!

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #52 - July 14, 2009, 05:35 PM
    Lmao
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #53 - July 14, 2009, 05:42 PM
    Grindin on you while dancing is one thing-- that's part of the club culture, and it's probably unreasonable to expect it not to happen at a dance club in this day and age, however...

    Quote from: BerberElla on July 14, 2009, 09:27 AM
    Yeah, pretty much.  If I'm walking past too quickly you can lightly tug my wrist to make me trun around, but grabbing me and pulling me back, running your hands all over me, and then trying to kiss me and stick your tongue down my throat all whilst I am trying to struggle out of your unwelcome grip is just too fucking much.


    That's another fuckin story. Next time that happens, just knee them in the nuts then report it to the bouncer.

    Even with the grinding-- if you politely make it known you don't want him on you and he persists anyhow, a good kick to the jewels will set him straight.

    Quote from: Submissive Bob on July 14, 2009, 05:25 PM
    I went to a club once and a young lady came right up to me and started massaging my nuts while she was talking to me. I was too embarrassed to tell her to stop. Then she asked me if I wanted a private dance. I couldn't believe how forward she was. Apparantly this kind of behaviour was the norm in this club. A few of the girls were even taking their clothes off and swinging on a pole!


    What BerberElla said. Cheesy
    fuck you
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #54 - July 14, 2009, 06:22 PM
    P.S. If you like dancing but don't want to deal with men groping you, why not go to gay male clubs? I know lots of girls who do that. Not saying you should have to resort to that, but it is the path of least resistance.

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on July 14, 2009, 01:51 PM
    By the same token, if Im going to Compton Los Angeles Ill make sure not to have dollar hanging out of my pocket.


    Just for clarification, Compton is in L.A. county but is it's own city and not a part of L.A. proper
    fuck you
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #55 - July 14, 2009, 07:06 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on July 14, 2009, 05:25 PM
    I went to a club once and a young lady came right up to me and started massaging my nuts while she was talking to me. I was too embarrassed to tell her to stop. Then she asked me if I wanted a private dance. I couldn't believe how forward she was. Apparantly this kind of behaviour was the norm in this club. A few of the girls were even taking their clothes off and swinging on a pole!




    PM me the address of this club please  grin12

    (kidding)
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #56 - July 14, 2009, 08:32 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 14, 2009, 06:22 PM
    P.S. If you like dancing but don't want to deal with men groping you, why not go to gay male clubs? I know lots of girls who do that. Not saying you should have to resort to that, but it is the path of least resistance.

    Just for clarification, Compton is in L.A. county but is it's own city and not a part of L.A. proper


    Going to a gay club is not necessarily safe either, I know of a girl that was raped in the toilets of a gay bar in Dublin.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #57 - July 14, 2009, 08:42 PM
    Raped by gay men? Huh?

    Is she extremely sexy? She must be!!!.... they converted to heterosex and lost their minds at the same time! Or do straight men go to those kind of clubs too?
    ...
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #58 - July 14, 2009, 08:48 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 14, 2009, 08:32 PM
    Going to a gay club is not necessarily safe either, I know of a girl that was raped in the toilets of a gay bar in Dublin.


    No place is completely safe. Just saying that there's a lesser chance of a woman being groped in a gay male dance club than at a predominately straight dance club.
    fuck you
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #59 - July 14, 2009, 08:59 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on July 14, 2009, 08:42 PM
    Raped by gay men? Huh?

    Is she extremely sexy? She must be!!!.... they converted to heterosex and lost their minds at the same time! Or do straight men go to those kind of clubs too?


    Just as you get an idiot element in straight clubs who hassle women for being scantily clad, you can also get an idiot element in gay clubs who go in there to hassle women for being gay.  In this case she was straight, but the rapists who attacked her assumed she was a lesbian who needed to be taught a lesson. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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