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Theme Changer

 Topic: Sam Harris

 (Read 27040 times)
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  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #30 - March 30, 2011, 09:35 PM

    I watch his first video. And I don't think he is right,,,,on what he said that education doesn't play a role in how much someone believes or is influenced by a religion...

    No, he doesn't say that. He says the opposite, even. He says that religious belief, for the large part, is so fragile that it would be easy to unburden ourselves of all the much heavier baggage of superstition, using education.

    He says “it could be accomplished in a single generation if we just taught our children reasonably about the Bible’s place in literature. The Bible is not science, and it is not particularly good philosophy, but it is literature. Let’s read the Bible, and let’s read all these other books about dead gods, like Ovid’s Metamorphoses.  If we taught the Bible and the Qur’an in that way, the god of Abraham would take his place alongside Zeus and Poseidon and Apollo and all the other dead gods, and none of this would be a problem. But is that likely to happen? I think not.”

    I think it is a great point.


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #31 - March 30, 2011, 10:45 PM



    Thanks for clarifying it to me  Smiley I didn't fully understand what he said...


    He says “it could be accomplished in a single generation if we just taught our children reasonably about the Bible’s place in literature. The Bible is not science, and it is not particularly good philosophy, but it is literature. Let’s read the Bible, and let’s read all these other books about dead gods, like Ovid’s Metamorphoses.  If we taught the Bible and the Qur’an in that way, the god of Abraham would take his place alongside Zeus and Poseidon and Apollo and all the other dead gods, and none of this would be a problem. But is that likely to happen? I think not.”



    but I did get this last part and I think is a great point as well
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #32 - April 02, 2011, 05:04 PM

    Sam's new blog post on the Quran burnfest...

    http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/do-we-have-the-right-to-burn-the-koran/

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #33 - April 02, 2011, 06:36 PM

    Quoted for posterity:
    Quote
    Wilders, like Westergaard and the other Danish cartoonists, has been widely vilified for “seeking to inflame” the Muslim community. Even if this had been his intention, this criticism represents an almost supernatural coincidence of moral blindness and political imprudence. The point is not (and will never be) that some free person spoke, or wrote, or illustrated in such a manner as to inflame the Muslim community. The point is that only the Muslim community is combustible in this way. The controversy over Fitna, like all such controversies, renders one fact about our world especially salient: Muslims appear to be far more concerned about perceived slights to their religion than about the atrocities committed daily in its name. Our accommodation of this psychopathic skewing of priorities has, more and more, taken the form of craven and blinkered acquiescence...


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #34 - April 10, 2011, 11:20 AM

    I'm heading down to London today, and insha'allah, I'll be at this Sam Harris thing tomorrow. If any of you guys are there, I may run into you. That means you, Hadrat Hassan.  grin12 I'll be the unkempt, shifty-lookin Scottish person.  Afro
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #35 - May 10, 2011, 06:18 PM

    Here's Kenan Malik's review of Sam Harris's "The Moral Landscape." It's a lengthy read but it's entirely worth it. Btw, can anyone who's read the Moral Landscape chime in on what they think of Kenan's review.



    “If God does not exist, everything is permitted.” Dostoevsky never actually wrote that line, though so often is it attributed to him that he may as well have. It has become the almost reflexive response of believers when faced with an argument for a godless world. Without religious faith, runs the argument, we cannot anchor our moral truths or truly know right from wrong. Without belief in God we will be lost in a miasma of moral nihilism.In recent years, the riposte of many to this challenge has been to argue that moral codes are not revealed by God but instantiated in nature, and in particular in the brain. Ethics is not a theological matter but a scientific one. Science is not simply a means of making sense of facts about the world, but also about values, because values are in essence facts in another form.

    Few people have expressed this argument more forcefully than the neuroscientist Sam Harris. Over the past few years, through books such as The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation, Harris has gained a considerable reputation as a no-holds-barred critic of religion, in particular of Islam, and as an acerbic champion of science. In his new book, The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values, he sets out to demolish the traditional philosophical distinction between is and ought, between the way the world is and the way that it should be, a distinction we most associate with David Hume.

    What Hume failed to understand, Harris argues, is that science can bridge the gap between ought and is, by turning moral claims into empirical facts. Values, he argues, are facts about the “states of the world” and “states of the human brain”. We need to think of morality, therefore, as “an undeveloped branch of science”: “Questions about values are really questions about the wellbeing of conscious creatures. Values, therefore, translate into facts that can be scientifically understood: regarding positive and negative social emotions, the effects of specific laws on human relationships, the neurophysiology of happiness and suffering, etc.”Science, and neuroscience in particular, does not simply explain why we might respond in particular ways to equality or to torture but also whether equality is a good, and torture morally acceptable. Where there are disagreements over moral questions, Harris believes, science will decide which view is right “because the discrepant answers people give to them translate into differences in our brains, in the brains of others and in the world at large.”

    Harris is nothing if not self-confident. There is a voluminous philosophical literature that stretches back almost to the origins of the discipline on the relationship between facts and values. Harris chooses to ignore most of it. He does not wish to engage “more directly with the academic literature on moral philosophy”, he explains in a footnote, because he did not develop his arguments “by reading the work of moral philosophers” and because he is “convinced that every appearance of terms like ‘metaethics’, ‘deontology’, ‘noncognitivism’, ‘antirealism’, ‘emotivism’, etc directly increases the amount of boredom in the universe.”

    Imagine a sociologist who wrote about evolutionary theory without discussing the work of Darwin, Fisher, Mayr, Hamilton, Trivers or Dawkins on the grounds that he did not come to his conclusions by reading about biology and because discussing concepts such as “adaptation”, “speciation”, “homology”, “phylogenetics” or “kin selection” would “increase the amount of boredom in the universe”. How seriously would we, and should we, take his argument? It is one thing to want to “start a conversation that a wider audience can engage with and can find helpful”, something that many of us, including many of those boring moral philosophers, seek to do. It is quite another to imagine that you can engage in any kind of conversation, with any kind of audience, by wilfully ignoring the relevant scholarship because it is “boring”.

    How does Harris establish that values are facts? There are, he says, certain kinds of lives that most would agree are bad, and certain kinds of lives that most would agree are good. Imagine a young widow whose seven-year-old daughter was “raped and dismembered” in front of her by her own 14-year-old son “goaded to this evil at the point of a machete by a press gang of drug-addled soldiers”. It was an act “not entirely out of character with the other days of [a] life” that from the moment of birth has been “a theatre of cruelty and violence”. Most people would accept that this woman was living what Harris calls “a Bad Life”. Now imagine a woman who is “married to the most loving, intelligent and charismatic person”, who has a career that is “intellectually stimulating and financially rewarding”, who is able to devote herself “to activities that bring [her] immense personal satisfaction” and who has “just won a billion-dollar grant to benefit children in the developing world”. Not many people, I would imagine, would disagree with Harris that this woman is living “a Good Life”. “Once we agree that the extremes of absolute misery and absolute flourishing – whatever those states amount to for each particular being in the end – are different and dependant upon facts about the universe,” Harris argues, “then we have admitted that there are right and wrong answers to the question of morality.” Good circumstances give rise to good lives, bad circumstances to bad lives. It is objectively good to value a good life and objectively bad to value a bad life.

    Therefore there are objectively good values and objectively bad values and values are facts about the world.   It is a kind of argument that suggests that Harris might have done well to spend a bit more time immersed in all the boring stuff. To accept that murder and rape are bad is to accept that one is not a psychopath. But being able to distinguish between psychopaths and non-psychopaths is not the same as establishing the ontological status of non-psychopathic values. Or, to put it another way, even most moral relativists abhor murder and rape and few carry a torch for either Hitler or the Taliban. The insistence that because it seems obvious that rape and murder are bad, and that wealth and security are good, so there must be objective values seems about as plausible as the argument that because there are gaps in the fossil record, so God must have created Adam and Eve.

    Having established the objectivity of values, Harris then insists that morality “really relates to the intentions and behaviours that affect the wellbeing of conscious creatures” and so can “translate into facts that can be scientifically understood”. But why should morality self-evidently relate solely to the “wellbeing of conscious creatures”? Why not, as some insist, to the wellbeing of the planet? Or of ecosystems? Or, as others argue, to the wellbeing of humans, as autonomous moral agents, rather than to that of all conscious creatures? I can think of rational arguments that can help distinguish between these claims. But I can think of no empirical test that can do so. Nor does Harris suggest any. And if there is no such test, it is difficult to know how it is a fact that can be scientifically understood.Let us grant that morality does relate solely to the wellbeing of conscious creatures. What scientific test can be used to define wellbeing? Harris accepts that wellbeing is a fuzzy concept. But so, he points out, are many scientific categories. We cannot define with absolute accuracy what it means to be healthy but most people would know the objective difference between a healthy person and an unhealthy one.

    This, however, is to misunderstand the problem. The issue is not so much that wellbeing is a fuzzy category as that it can, in specific cases, be well-defined but in a number of different ways that are often conflicting in a manner that science cannot resolve. Perhaps the best way to understand this is to explore Harris’ own moral values, particularly in relation to Islam. “There is,” Harris observes, “absolutely no reason to think that demonising homosexuals, stoning adulterers, veiling women, soliciting the murder of artists and intellectuals and celebrating the exploits of suicide bombers will move humanity towards a peak on the moral landscape.” I agree. But why does Harris seem to believe that demonising Muslims will help move humanity to a peak on the moral landscape? What is moral about insisting, as Harris does in his book The End of Faith, that a “good Muslim” (“good” in the sense of being religiously faithful) who possesses “military and economic power” poses “an unconscionable threat to the civil society of others”?

    Or in claiming, as he did in a Los Angeles Times column, that “the people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists”? I agree with Harris that “killing cartoonists for blasphemy does not lead anywhere worth going on the landscape”. But I cannot see how suggesting, as Harris does in The End of Faith, that “some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them” does so either. Nor claiming, as Harris did in the Huffington Post, that “torture may be an ethical necessity in our war on terror”.Harris has what he considers to be rational defences against such criticisms. Since we are happy to accept “collateral damage” in the war on terror, actions in which innocent noncombatants may be maimed or killed, why, he asks, should we cavil at torturing suspected terrorists? And what, he wonders, is wrong with killing an individual whose beliefs could inspire others to commit great violence? It would, he suggests, be an act of “self-defence”.

    I disagree with Harris’s rationalisations, not because I am a “self-hating moral relativist”, as Harris insists on dubbing most of his critics, but because I have a fundamentally different view of what constitutes the good. The difference between torture and collateral damage, for instance, is the difference between deliberately treating a human being as a piece of meat and unintentionally killing some people. For a consequentialist like Harris the distinction between means and ends revealed in that difference may not be important. For those not entirely trapped within a consequentialist view of morality, it is. Consequences clearly matter. But there is more to morality than poring over a spreadsheet of outcomes.All moral codes have, of course, a certain in-built flexibility. Most people would accept that murder is a moral wrong. But if a woman in a violent and abusive relationship murders her husband, most would understand her actions, perhaps even accept them as having been necessary, while still deeming murder, and maybe even her specific response, to be morally unacceptable. This can be as true of torture as of murder.

    Even though I reject the comparison between torture and collateral damage, and even though I regard torture as treating a human being as a piece of meat, I also accept that there may be circumstances – the famous “ticking bomb” scenario, for instance – in which I would understand why an individual had been treated as a piece of meat. This does not make torture ethically right, or collapse the moral chasm between torture and collateral damage. Rather it reveals the distinction between ethical norms and pragmatic needs. Those who murder and torture should always have to answer, morally and legally, for their actions. How we judge those actions depends, however, upon the context – the particular circumstances, the intentions of the perpetrator, and so on. Such judgment is as much a matter of wisdom – admittedly, an unfashionable word these days – as of science.

    If Sam Harris and I were to debate these issues, each of us would insist that he was right and the other wrong. Both would draw upon facts about the world, root those facts within our particular political and moral framework, and use reason to bind the argument together. Neither would accept that our moral stance was valid only for a specific culture but would maintain its universal validity. It would not, however, be a “scientific” debate. The difference between a consequentialist and a non-consequentialist view of torture, for instance, cannot be resolved empirically. It rests upon whether or not one accepts that counting consequences is a useful way of thinking about torture. A debate between Harris and me would be very different to either of us debating, say, a defender of intelligent design or someone who rejects anthropogenic climate change.  

    What would be the effect of Harris insisting that that his view was scientific and mine not so? It would not make his argument scientific. It may, however, give his argument the authority of science, which is something very different.And therein lies the danger. Science has great authority in the modern world, and rightly so. But if it is important to defend the authority of science in matters of fact, it is equally important to reject attempts to make use of such authority in arenas in which more is at play than simply facts. There is, of course, a long history of the use of science as a mask for prejudice.

    There is a deeper problem, too, in Harris’s argument. His is an aristocratic view of morality. Moral norms seem not to emerge through a process of social engagement and collective conversation, nor in the course of self-improvement, but rather are laws to be revealed from on high and imposed upon those below. Science will tell us which conception of the good life is objectively true, and ensure that we all keep to the moral straight and narrow. Harris looks forward, for instance, to the day that governments and corporations will be able to use brain scanning technology to detect whether people are lying, thereby creating “zones of obligatory candour” and enabling an entirely truthful public life. “Thereafter, civilised men and women might share a common presumption,” he writes, “that whenever important conversations are held, the truthfulness of all participants will be monitored.” This would no more be a deprivation of freedom than currently it is to be denied “the right to remove our pants in the supermarket”.

    It is an argument that reveals once again the difficulties of the claim that science can umpire moral disagreements. The question of whether the creation of “zones of obligatory candour” would be a rational enterprise or a totalitarian nightmare, of whether enforced truthfulness is a moral good or a denial of individual autonomy, cannot be determined scientifically but expresses, rather, a philosophical and political distinction. Harris dismisses the criticism that using compulsory brain scans in the courtroom would be an infringement of the US Fifth Amendment, which protects an individual against self-incrimination. “Prohibition against compelled testimony,” he writes, “appears to be a relic of a more superstitious age” in which it was “believed that lying under oath would damn a person’s soul for eternity.” This is an odd view of moral and political history. Protection against compelled testimony is, in fact, an Enlightenment concept, a product of the liberal defence of individual autonomy against the power of the state. Harris’s insistence on enforced truthfulness is, on the other hand, far closer to the premodern and religious belief that authority should take precedence over individual freedom.

    The desire to root morality in science derives from a laudable aspiration to demonstrate the redundancy of religion to ethical thinking. The irony is that the classic argument against looking to God as the source of moral values – Plato’s Euthyphro dilemma – is equally applicable to the claim that science is, or should be, the arbiter of good and evil. In his dialogue Euthyphro, Plato has Socrates ask the famous question: do the gods love the good because it is good, or is it good because it is loved by the gods? If the good is good simply because the gods choose it, then the notion of the good becomes arbitrary. If on the other hand, the gods choose the good because it is good, then the good is independent of the gods.
     
    The same dilemma faces contemporary defenders of the claim that science determines moral values. Harris argues that wellbeing can be defined through data gained from fMRI scans, physiological observation, pharmacological measures, etc. Such studies may be able to tell us which brain states, neurotransmitters or hormones calibrate with particular real-world conditions. But whether those states, neurotransmitters or hormones are seen as indicators of wellbeing depends on whether we consider those real-life conditions as expressions of wellbeing. If wellbeing is defined simply by the existence of certain neural states, or by the presence of particular hormones or neurotransmitters, or because of certain evolutionary dispositions, then the notion of wellbeing is arbitrary. If such a definition is not to be arbitrary, then it can only be because the neural state, or the hormonal or neurotransmitter level, or the evolutionary disposition, correlates with a notion of wellbeing or of the good, which has been arrived at independently.

    Science (or rather scientists) may be able to develop machines that can predict whether an individual is lying or not. But it cannot tell us whether it is a good that all our thoughts be monitored. That is a moral, not a scientific, judgment.The desire to look either to God or to science to define moral values is a desire to set moral values in ethical concrete. It is a yearning for moral certainty, a fear that without external authority, humans will fall into the morass of moral relativism. But just as we do not need the false certainty of a divinely sanctified moral code, neither do we need the false certainty of a morality rooted in science.
     
    There is an important truth to Harris’s argument that facts and values are not as distinct as many now suggest. Unless we wish to believe that values are simply plucked out of the sky, then we must accept that there is some relationship between the kinds of values that we hold, the kinds of beings that we are, and the kind of world in which we live. But while values can never be entirely wrenched apart from facts, neither can they be collapsed into facts. Humans are the bridge between facts and values. The significance of the Euthyphro dilemma is that it embodies a deeper claim: that concepts such as goodness, happiness and wellbeing only have meaning in a world in which conscious, rational, moral agents exist that themselves are capable of defining moral right and wrong and acting upon it.It is the existence of humans as autonomous moral agents that allows us to act as the bridge between facts and values.

    Or, to put it another way, it is the fact of our existence as moral beings that ensures both that facts and values are linked but also that they are distinct. Creating a distinction between facts and values is neither to denigrate science nor to downgrade the importance of empirical evidence. It is, rather, to take both science and evidence seriously. It is precisely out of the facts of the world, and those of human existence, that the distinction between is and ought arises, as does the necessity for humans to take responsibility for moral judgement.

    http://newhumanist.org.uk/2538/test-tube-truths

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #36 - May 10, 2011, 07:03 PM

    Yes! Ishina  a quote for posterity!

    Quote
    Wilders, like Westergaard and the other Danish cartoonists, has been widely vilified for “seeking to inflame” the Muslim community. Even if this had been his intention, this criticism represents an almost supernatural coincidence of moral blindness and political imprudence. The point is not (and will never be) that some free person spoke, or wrote, or illustrated in such a manner as to inflame the Muslim community. The point is that only the Muslim community is combustible in this way. The controversy over Fitna, like all such controversies, renders one fact about our world especially salient: Muslims appear to be far more concerned about perceived slights to their religion than about the atrocities committed daily in its name. Our accommodation of this psychopathic skewing of priorities has, more and more, taken the form of craven and blinkered acquiescence...


    clap Very precise synopsis of all the shit that's happening thanks to the burgeoning population of blinkered idiots for whom studied ignorance is a great art form and who can't distinguish between true tolerance[which is very good and admirable] and crass indifference[which is very dangerous in the long run].



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #37 - May 11, 2011, 03:05 AM

    Spot on.

    Sam Harris is a fucking ledge. Just love listening to him.
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #38 - May 27, 2011, 01:47 PM

    Interesting video from Sam..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7q9Pl5ou0k


    interesting i didn't know that  about this Mentally ill character


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KElyLrrTLB0

    indeed that guy badly needed psychiatric help  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #39 - May 27, 2011, 03:23 PM

    You didn't know about him? He is so famous. I used to study him during my "serial killers are so interesting" phase, and by 'study him', I meant that I googled a few times.

    Get crunk.
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #40 - May 27, 2011, 03:29 PM

    Interesting video from Sam..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7q9Pl5ou0k


    interesting i didn't know that  about this Mentally ill character


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KElyLrrTLB0

    indeed that guy badly needed psychiatric help  


    Christian dogma at its best. And they say without religion we'd all be immoral freaks.
  • Re: Sam Harris
     Reply #41 - May 27, 2011, 03:33 PM

    You didn't know about him? He is so famous. I used to study him during my "serial killers are so interesting" phase, and by 'study him', I meant that I googled a few times.

    well I knew about that guy was MENTAL case., but i didn't know his mother took him to some voodoo Church for his mental problems instead of getting Psychiatric help...  this third generation anti-Psychotic drugs do a wonderful job

    http://mentalhealth.about.com/od/psychopharmacology/l/bldrug4.htm

    although we understand very little how they work


    Quote
    Christian dogma at its best. And they say without religion we'd all be immoral freaks.

    well I don't who is moral freak or who is  immoral freaks care as long as NUT CASES are not allowed to buy   Machine guns


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #42 - April 07, 2014, 09:10 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsUahG6GJrs

    I love this guy

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #43 - January 04, 2016, 11:10 AM

    Why Religion Should Be Replaced: Sam Harris on The End of Faith, Danger to Society (2005)
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUxhU3eeSKw

    Sam Harris on the dangers of atheism

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbfA2Rbpsjs

    That is 8 year old......... 2007??

    Sam Harris Aspen Ideas Festival  and their Importance  and the dangers associated with them..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtN4-lwnHX4



    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #44 - January 04, 2016, 05:56 PM

    Lol,im always amused on how people on this joint have been and still are Sam Harris dickriders. Im glad i have never been one of them and never got attracted to his works after i became an apostate.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #45 - January 04, 2016, 10:37 PM

    Harris can be occasionally brilliant and articulates his ideas very well. Some of his ideas I certainly disagree with (regarding profiling, guns, and some of his foreign policy), but I do find his opinions and reasoning to be valuable.

    Also always check the original source when someone "quotes" Sam. There are a lot of people who do all they can to take him out of context and misrepresent his views.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #46 - January 05, 2016, 12:10 AM

    Also always check the original source when someone "quotes" Sam. There are a lot of people who do all they can to take him out of context and misrepresent his views.

    I have no axe to grind for or against him, but this is a very important point. ^^

    Listening to his podcasts it is obvious that he is highly intelligent, well-intentioned and self-critical. Fallible of course, but who ain't?
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #47 - January 05, 2016, 04:22 AM

    Lol,im always amused on how people on this joint have been and still are Sam Harris dickriders. Im glad i have never been one of them and never got attracted to his works after i became an apostate.

    Cato..Cato... are you upset with me because I didn't say good luck and congratulation with you joining in to that flying school in South africa??

    Until you get certified from that flying school  I am NOT going to say congratulations..

    So .. How are you?.. be happy .. anger management is extremely important to life..   and  whose dick did you ride before you became apostate? and whose dick are your riding now??

    My suggestion to you on this is "ride your own dick and be your own prophet"

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #48 - January 05, 2016, 04:58 AM

    Lol. You are a funny man Yeez...but nice try Tongue

    Harris can be occasionally brilliant and articulates his ideas very well. Some of his ideas I certainly disagree with (regarding profiling, guns, and some of his foreign policy), but I do find his opinions and reasoning to be valuable.

    Also always check the original source when someone "quotes" Sam. There are a lot of people who do all they can to take him out of context and misrepresent his views.


    He may be intelligent and reasonable in some areas but i find him to be very naive when it comes to politics especially in Middle East and US foreign policy I dont always focus on his quotes drawn by his critics,i have been to his website and read some of his articles but i find him too Right to take him seriously.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #49 - January 05, 2016, 05:49 AM

    Right there with you, Cato. And frankly I think him being highly intelligent and supposedly well-intentioned make him more dangerous.
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #50 - January 05, 2016, 09:15 AM

    Lol. You are a funny man Yeez...but nice try Tongue

    He may be intelligent and reasonable in some areas but i find him to be very naive when it comes to politics especially in Middle East and US foreign policy I dont always focus on his quotes drawn by his critics,i have been to his website and read some of his articles but i find him too Right to take him seriously.


    If he would have been too Left, would you have take him seriously?
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #51 - January 05, 2016, 10:54 AM

    Lol. You are a funny man Yeez...but nice try Tongue

    He may be intelligent and reasonable in some areas but i find him to be very naive when it comes to politics especially in Middle East and US foreign policy I dont always focus on his quotes drawn by his critics,i have been to his website and read some of his articles but i find him too Right to take him seriously.


    Thank you, he is a clever man but one must not take what he says as gospel. There are certain topics in which he is almost utterly clueless, and as a result he ends up misleading those who are just as clueless.
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #52 - January 05, 2016, 12:36 PM

    Yup^

    @Absurdist: Tell me about it.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #53 - January 05, 2016, 01:09 PM

    One thing I've noticed about him is he focuses on all the most polarizing and controversial issues. It's no wonder you piss people off when you constantly are giving your public opinion on issues such as gun control, religion, the Middle East, torture, etc.

    If I had to explicitly spell out my views on all those topics publically, I'm sure I'd make a lot of enemies too.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #54 - January 05, 2016, 01:24 PM

    One thing I've noticed about him is he focuses on all the most polarizing and controversial issues. It's no wonder you piss people off ................

    well he answers that explicitly at his blog Response to Controversy

    Quote
    A few of the subjects I explore in my work have inspired an unusual amount of controversy. Some of this results from real differences of opinion or honest confusion, but much of it is due to the fact that certain of my detractors deliberately misrepresent my views.


    Critics of Sam Harris

    The Dangerous Atheism of Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris_Chris Hedges  March 21, 2008

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMcd_yWL2DM

    Chris Hedges on Sam Harris-, 2008...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7T7barZEeU
    Quote
    Published on Sep 10, 2015
    Sam Harris answers the accusation that he wants a nuclear first strike on the Muslim world. This is part of the Sam Harris interview with Dave Rubin about religion, politics, free speech and much more


    well let me watch this..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1zltfl-EwQ

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #55 - January 05, 2016, 02:10 PM

    One thing I've noticed about him is he focuses on all the most polarizing and controversial issues. It's no wonder you piss people off when you constantly are giving your public opinion on issues such as gun control, religion, the Middle East, torture, etc.

    If I had to explicitly spell out my views on all those topics publically, I'm sure I'd make a lot of enemies too.


    Thats how you see him but to me he comes across as neocon(and a racist) that uses atheism as a cover to support imperialism. I find his criticism of religion,Islam in particular to be reactive (triggered by 9/11 hence his one dimensional minded views on US Foreign policy in Middle East). The only difference between him and Donald Trump is that the latter doesnt believe in Science stuff like climate change and hide under the cover of secular humanism to express his views otherwise they are all the same, i see no difference.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #56 - January 05, 2016, 04:11 PM

    I don't see how you can call him racist. Maybe because his views on profiling? I don't agree with him on it, but his point was essentially that when approaching security threats such as at airports, it's a waste of time and resources to be shaking down old ladies and people traveling with their kids an equal amount as young to middle aged men who are more likely to carry out terrorist attacks. This does not mean profiling by race/ethnicity (Harris admitted that he falls into the category of someone who should be among the most closely scrutinized). He pointed out how Israel does this and is essentially the best in the world at detecting and dismantling terrorist activity.

    I think he's being short sighted on this issue because terrorists will then find ways to carry out attacks using people deemed as lower threats, but I don't think you can say he's being blatantly racist.

    I think this points out the difference between someone like him and other leftists. He accepts there are realities of this world that we should be careful to immediately jump on the "we must be completely accepting and never offend" train.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #57 - January 05, 2016, 05:34 PM

    Yes, he did admitted that he falls into the category of one who should be closely scrutinized...because he realized the folly of his arguments on muslim profiling hence his backtracking which was funny thing to hear as he cant get away with it. Not only because of the profiling that made me think he is one. There are other instances including his correspondence with Noam Chomsky that fully exposed who he really is.Yet which he went and publish online just to brag to his audience that he has won the debate without realizing how much he made a fool out of himself.   Lol

    When you say other leftists? You mean folks that dont support blowing up people in Middle East just to wipe "Jihadi Terrorism" off the map.

    We can go for days on listing my reasons on why im not his fan but seeing how much you really adore this man and willing to overlook his neoconservative views just because he bashes Islam. No point in doing so.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #58 - January 05, 2016, 07:30 PM

    I don't adore him. I'm not one to have heros, and to me Sam is far from infallible.

    Also, his views on Islam is not the main reason I like him. I actually was fascinated by his views on free will and consciousness, and his politics I care less about.

    As for Chomsky, he didn't declare himself any sort of winner. He says that he failed to have a conversation with him, and it looks like (from my reading of the correspondence) that Chomsky flat out refused to entertain any of sam's ideas. Of course, Noam under no obligation to reply to Harris and take his views seriously, but Chomsky came off as utterly dismissive and uncharitable in that exchange

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Sam Harris
     Reply #59 - January 05, 2016, 07:46 PM

    Then either you read the exchanges wrong or you are just being biased in favour of Harris because Chomsky never come close to being dismissive and uncharitable rather he was more patient and took his time to elucidate his points to him but Sam Harris didnt want to have any of that rather he was going circles and trying to browbeat,twist and force words into his mouth in defense of US bombing of Pharmaceutical in Sudan for harbouring "terrorists". As he couldnt get his way he decided to end it, published it to his audience and tell them he "failed to have a conversation" . That's Sam Harris saving his face from embarassment not "failure to have a conversation" Grin

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
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