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Theme Changer

 Topic: US right attacks NHS.

 (Read 5441 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • US right attacks NHS.
     OP - August 12, 2009, 04:50 PM

    Now, I love a bit of limey bashing as much as everyone else, but this is ridiculous...

    Quote
    The National Health Service has become the butt of increasingly outlandish political attacks in the US as Republicans and conservative campaigners rail against Britain's "socialist" system as part of a tussle to defeat Barack Obama's proposals for broader government involvement in healthcare.

    Top-ranking Republicans have joined bloggers and well-funded free market organisations in scorning the NHS for its waiting lists and for "rationing" the availability of expensive treatments.

    As myths and half-truths circulate, British diplomats in the US are treading a delicate line in correcting falsehoods while trying to stay out of a vicious domestic dogfight over the future of American health policy.

    Slickly produced television advertisements trumpet the alleged failures of the NHS's 61-year tradition of tax-funded healthcare. To the dismay of British healthcare professionals, US critics have accused the service of putting an "Orwellian" financial cap on the value on human life, of allowing elderly people to die untreated and, in one case, for driving a despairing dental patient to mend his teeth with superglue.



    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health

    Most hilariously of all some right wing editorial claimed that Stephen Hawking would be dead if he had been born in Britain.   Cheesy  

    Quote
    There are, I think, two essential truths in international health policy. No-one sees fit to copy the National Health Service and no-one sees fit to copy the American system. Still, for all that we need NHS reform (hardly a surprise since just about every health system is under strain and needs tweaking), the picture of the NHS given by some of the people opposed to Obama's health plans is, well, not hugely accurate. Take, for instance, this Investors Business Daily editorial which claims that:

    People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

    Everyone* has jumped on this and, quite reasonably, had some fun with it since, alas, it seems as though the writer is unaware that Professor Hawking is, um, British. Now it's possible that Hawking has private medical insurance, but as recently as April this year he was admitted to Addenbrooke's hospital in Cambridge. Which is, I believe, an NHS hospital. And last time I checked, Hawking hasn't been bumped off by some heartless NHS bureaucrat. At least, not yet.
    Lord knows, the NHS has its problems and, yes, there's a degree of rationing. But there's rationing in just about every system. It just depends on how that rationing is organised and, to some extent, whether its existence is admitted. Ability to pay = rationing too. Equally, by any historical standard (different, to be sure, from international standards) the NHS actually, for all its cumbersome bureaucracy, performs pretty well. Could it be run more effificiently and cheaply? Almost certainly. Does it, on balance, offer a decent, though not world-beating, service for the money we spend on it? Probably.

    The relevance of the NHS to American health care plans seems pretty limited anyway since, as best I can tell (though I try not to pay too much attention to these things) Obama doesn't actually plan on copying the NHS.



    http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/5255761/stephen-hawking-has-not-yet-been-murdered-by-the-nhs.thtml

    Sadly, whatever health care system they adopt there is still no cure for stupidity.




    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #1 - August 12, 2009, 06:11 PM

    Why the hell do they need to attack the NHS??

    Can't they argue about this crap without trying to ridicule a different system.

    Sure, ours have problems, but at least we don't have cases of hospitals dumping poor people in downtown areas just because they don't have insurance!

    The right wing in America really confuse me, then again, so do the left wing.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #2 - August 12, 2009, 06:13 PM

    There's a left wing in America?   Huh?  Even their lefties seem fairly right, or at least centrist, to me.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #3 - August 12, 2009, 06:21 PM

    I think left and right are subjective to each country, the left wing of Saudi Arabia would be further than centre-right in Holland for example. But anyway there are some who we might call left wing, pro choice, pro affirmative action, pro strict gun control, anti-creation-taught in schools etc.

    I think the key difference is that EU countries are filled with champaign socialist leaders-anywhere between left and right usually agree on most issues and the fringe parties are either far right-nationalists or far left-communists/marxists. America though seems to be a strongly divided country and quite a Christian country. Sure, your country recently implemented some bullshit blasphemy law, but compare the strong majority of the country being lapsed catholics to the fact that in America if you aren't Christian (or Jewish-or in rare cases Muslim) you won't reach anywhere in public office.

    The systems are horrendously different.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #4 - August 12, 2009, 06:31 PM

    Now, I love a bit of limey bashing as much as everyone else, but this is ridiculous...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health

    Most hilariously of all some right wing editorial claimed that Stephen Hawking would be dead if he had been born in Britain.   Cheesy  

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/5255761/stephen-hawking-has-not-yet-been-murdered-by-the-nhs.thtml

    Sadly, whatever health care system they adopt there is still no cure for stupidity.



    I really hate the way people talk shit about a subject they only know from a distance - and a distorted one, to boot!

    Whatever the faults of the NHS - its benefits far, far, outweigh the problems with it - I am deeply grateful for it.  Afro

    The US critics should think hard about this saying: The true measure of a civilization/society is how they treat their weakest members!

    ...and STFU! Tossers!
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #5 - August 12, 2009, 07:59 PM

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6017878/Stephen-Hawking-I-would-not-be-alive-without-the-NHS.html

    Stephen Hawkings talking on the issue.
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #6 - August 12, 2009, 08:45 PM

    There's a left wing in America?   Huh?


    There is, and they're fucked.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #7 - August 12, 2009, 09:46 PM

    Why the hell do they need to attack the NHS??


    Because it's the easiest one to attack. There have been several criticisms or call for overhaul leveled against it in the UK's national press, so it's an easy source of English-language op-eds/news stories detailing objections/criticisms of a single-payer system by residents of the country in question. Also, as opposed to other single-payer systems, it is not privately administered so it's one of the easiest ones to label as "government-run/socialized healthcare".

    Both ideological opponents of public healthcare and healthcare industry opponents of a public healthcare plan available to everyone are culling negative stories about single-payer healthcare systems from all over the world to stoke fear and convince everyone their quality of care will suffer if the US adopts such a system. The UK and Canada both speak English, so this is where they find people to give their horror stories of dealing with the healthcare systems there.

    It gets worse than that-- right-wingers over here are comparing the healthcare reform plan currently on the table to "Nazi Eugenics" and are convincing elderly people it will mean they will be left to die. You should read the insane bullshit that's posted daily on the gun-owners discussion board I belong to regarding this topic. You'd think Obama was Stalin/Hitler, sending out roving gangs of thugs to intimidate people out of opposing his plan for Nazi eugenics and a Communist totalitarian society. It's fucking crazy here. I can't even fly my Gadsden Flag anymore for fear of being associated with these reactionary loons.

    I'm opposed to the plan myself, but only because I think its a bullshit, overly complicated and bureaucratic compromise that will fuck everything up, waste a bunch of tax money that we can ill-afford to spare, and forever convince Americans that government-run healthcare is a bad idea. There's been a perfectly good bill in Congress for years-- HR 676-- that would establish a privately-administered single-payer health insurance plan, and I support it 100%. But whatever abortion legislation comes out of Congress this session or the next will be worse than no reform at all, so although I can't bring myself to give active tactical support to the right-wing crazies and their healthcare industry allies, I do hope this legislation dies and we don't get a mandate plan without a public option either (if it's between the two, however, I'd certainly support the one with the public option).

    The really sad thing, to me, is that there's all this controversy and near-riots erupting between pro and anti-healthcare reform demonstrators-- all over a half-assed compromise bill. If we were gonna be having this kind of angry public debate it should have at least been over a proper single-payer bill. Unfortunately the Democrats are cowards and slaves to the corporate interests, and many of the leaders of America's labor unions are just as cowardly and short-sighted. The country's largest union, SEIU, actually came out against a fully single-payer plan. Shameful.

    There's a left wing in America?   Huh?  Even their lefties seem fairly right, or at least centrist, to me.


    Preach it, sister!

    fuck you
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #8 - August 13, 2009, 09:37 AM

    Oh noes! I had to wait in line for 90 minutes to have a blood sample taken, and have to wait up to 18 weeks (or was it months? I hope not) for a simple surgery on my ear which is completely free, but I wouldnt be able to afford to pay for any of it regardless of how much faster it happened.   

    /Sarcasm.

    The Dental service in the UK is a complete joke, but the NHS isnt too bad. Just no NHS dentists available anywhere for me :(.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #9 - August 14, 2009, 06:56 PM

    Daniel Hannan - What a Wanker!



  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #10 - August 14, 2009, 06:57 PM

    Who he? 


    (He certainly looks like a wanker, whoever he is).

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #11 - August 14, 2009, 07:05 PM

    He went on Fox News and started trashing the NHS saying it was a "60 year mistake" and he "wouldn't wish it on anyone" and other stuff.

    The Yanks (the right-wing ones) loved it!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiSPRkq28iU
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #12 - August 14, 2009, 07:07 PM

    I liked Daniel Hannan when he lit up Brown. He is my representative, gotta say tho ... The little bugger needs to learn to shut up

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #13 - August 14, 2009, 07:10 PM

    To be honest if the USA were to nationalise their healthcare industry it would unwise to base it on the UK's example.
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #14 - August 14, 2009, 07:12 PM

    Switzerland is much better.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #15 - August 14, 2009, 07:14 PM

    That guy's a liar.  UK doctors didn't start working shorter hours because of anything to do with the NHS, they started working shorter hours because an EU directive ordered them to.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #16 - August 14, 2009, 08:04 PM

    I propose that next time this David traitor needs any medical treatment of any kind he should pay for it himself.

    AND NOT OUT OF EXPENSES

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #17 - August 15, 2009, 07:19 AM

    Ya need to understand.... a lot of these people are very very stupid.
    Greedy people use stupid people to halt progress, that's just how they roll. For most of the know nothings, they dont even know what they are so mad about. They just get their marching orders and talking points from talking heads like Hannity and Rush (and assorted fox news idiots). Have you seen this Glen Beck guy? OMG, he's unstable.

    Anyway....in the end, the democrat party has the majority in congress and a president in the whitehouse, so na na na na na na, to them.


    I'm off to the VA to get some free socialized medical treatment, best hospital in town.

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #18 - August 15, 2009, 08:26 AM

    Yea, theyre so stupid that one comment I read had one of them thinking that 'people will die from a heart attack while on the waiting list for surgery'.

    Medical emergencies =/= waiting list for minor surgeries.

     

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #19 - August 15, 2009, 09:11 AM

    Quote from the article linked in the OP:

    Quote
    The British physisist spoke out after Republican politicians lambasted the NHS as "evil" in their effort to stop President Barack Obama's reforms of US health care which will widen availability of treatment but at a cost to higher earners who will pay higher insurance premiums.


    Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that the media operators and politicians backing and implementing this smear campaign are "higher earners". So basically what they are doing is stirring up outrage over "evil"and "loss of freedom" so they can keep a bit more cash in their pockets, and the people who they are stirring up are largely the "lower earners" who will pay the price in terms of less available health care.

    This is the awesome thing about the Republicans and other right wingers in the US: they have managed to convince people who should be opposed to them that they are their best option. It's astonishing to watch. 

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #20 - August 15, 2009, 11:06 AM

    They are taking away freedom, destroying America, and creating a tyranny!!!
    With Health Insurance Reform!!!!

    See how silly that sounds?

    Its almost sureal the response that could come from the far right.....over Health Insurance Reform.
    Its because the right wing leaders (who arent stupid) feed nonsense to people who know nothing (and are stupid) and get them to freak out. To understand them, you need to see fox news, they best illustrate this. Check out Glen Beck, to see what we are dealing with.
    I mean for crying out loud....Its health insurance reform...They arent even talking about Universal Health Care! (which I support)

    Now, hold still grandma  Headsman

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #21 - August 15, 2009, 11:11 AM

    Yeah I have to admit your right wing over there does seem completely crazy to a lot of outsiders. It's almost as if they sit around toking on doobies and trying to think up the most outrageous possible BS.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #22 - August 15, 2009, 07:22 PM

    The right in America scare me.
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #23 - August 15, 2009, 08:14 PM

    The right in America scare me.


    They're filth.

    But the right in this country (Lab and Tory alike) they'll destroy the NHS one way or another.... we'll get the US system that leaves tens of millions to die.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #24 - August 15, 2009, 08:38 PM

    There have been a few Canadians who've gone on the right wing US media "denouncing" the Canadian system too. There was a Shona Holmes, who exaggerated her story to suit the propaganda by the right wing, pro-insurance corporations media (primarily Fox news, but also CNN).

    I know a few doctors who work in the U.S. and while most of them are nice people, a few have expressed concerns having to do with the fact that under a nationalized system, they may not be making upwards of $400 an hour and that might inconvenience them too much.  Also, Huffington Post has great coverage of who's behind all the loud and obnoxious hate parade against obama and nationalized health care (hint: those who financially stand to benefit from a greedy, private-insurer system the most).

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #25 - August 15, 2009, 08:42 PM

    Also, Huffington Post has great coverage of who's behind all the loud and obnoxious hate parade against obama and nationalized health care (hint: those who financially stand to benefit from a greedy, private-insurer system the most).


    Yes, of course! The insurance companies must be totally against this!
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #26 - August 15, 2009, 09:16 PM

    There have been a few Canadians who've gone on the right wing US media "denouncing" the Canadian system too. There was a Shona Holmes, who exaggerated her story to suit the propaganda by the right wing, pro-insurance corporations media (primarily Fox news, but also CNN).

    I know a few doctors who work in the U.S. and while most of them are nice people, a few have expressed concerns having to do with the fact that under a nationalized system, they may not be making upwards of $400 an hour and that might inconvenience them too much.


    It's not going to be anything like a nationalized system though, hence comparisons with the NHS are irrelevant.

    Quote
    Also, Huffington Post has great coverage of who's behind all the loud and obnoxious hate parade against obama and nationalized health care (hint: those who financially stand to benefit from a greedy, private-insurer system the most).


    (And the lobbying and the bribing...) This is an example of how the democratic process is rigged.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #27 - August 15, 2009, 11:14 PM

    The right in America scare me.


    Well, hell!  I'm American and they scare me too!

    Now, having been born and raised in the good ole' USA I've had my dealings with our joke of a health system and strongly feel that it definitely needs an overhaul.  Essentially it's all about money and liability.  I have some chronic conditions for which I need to take daily medication and every time I would go to my health plan's pharmacy to pick up my meds I would always have to spin a yarn about how I didn't actually live in the state I was currently in but came from another state where I was covered otherwise I would be out of pocket by around $350 every month just for my fecking meds.  Also, if you have any preexisting conditions when you try to sign up for health insurance in the States, forget it!  They will drop you like a hot potato!

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #28 - September 08, 2009, 01:39 PM

    Why Real AmericansTM despise Canadian healtcare:
    http://videosift.com/video/Gus-Porter-American-Legend-with-Thomas-Haden-Church
  • Re: US right attacks NHS.
     Reply #29 - September 08, 2009, 09:42 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx02NKfmnWI

    "God is a geometer" - Plato

    "God is addicted to arithmetic" - Sir James Jeans
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