Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?

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Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
OP - August 15, 2009, 09:24 AM

Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women? This is interesting....

Has anyone before proposed that two of the largest religions man ever known namely Christianity and Islam were started by women?

I think that Mary screwed some fella and to cover up her out of marriage pregnancy she said she was having the baby of the wholly spirit.... and the rest is history! (think Monty Python's movie: Life of Brian).

Also, Khadija the wife of Mo when he started the Islamic faith movement, was a very successful businesswoman who had some agenda political or otherwise and convinced Mo that he was the expected prophet.

I wonder if any one has thought of that before!?

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #1 - August 15, 2009, 09:41 AM

Meh. I think that Mohammed started out thinking that he was talking to an angel and convinced Khadija rather than the other way around. She was fairly powerful in her own right. If she had an agenda why not just be a prophet herself?

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Reply #2 - August 15, 2009, 09:45 AM

Maybe because she was so clever to know that a woman in Arabia will not have the same chance, and used Mo as her puppet.....

Do you know what will be interesting? To find out if all the anti-women versus came after she has died or not? Like the wife beating and the Hijab thingys!!!

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #3 - August 15, 2009, 09:47 AM

Hijab was after her death IIRC. Wouldn't be surprised if 4:34 was too. He seems to get nastier as he went on.

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #4 - August 15, 2009, 09:56 AM

You see it is going well with my theory! So far! What more was awful to women came up after Khadija's death?

I bet the Hijab thingy came after his marriage to Aisha.... they say she was hot. He was obviously jealous and did not want anybody else see her!

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #5 - August 15, 2009, 09:58 AM

Khadija only gets cursory mentions throughout the sira literature because she died fairly early on and is mentioned as a powerfull woman who supported Mo. She hasn't really got as much of a mention as Aisha who was fairly pivotal in early islamic history. By the way to add insult to injury Mo gets to marry Maryam (Mary) and Aasia (Pharoah's wife) in Heaven. The guy just doesn't know when to stop.
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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #6 - August 15, 2009, 09:59 AM

Hot at nine years old?

ETA: Hang on, marry Mary in heaven? Which Mary?

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #7 - August 15, 2009, 10:01 AM

Mary = Mother of Jesus.
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Reply #8 - August 15, 2009, 10:04 AM

Shit hot. So who does Joseph get then? Extra houris or something?

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #9 - August 15, 2009, 10:06 AM

Here is a source:-

"The Messenger of God ... said, ?God MARRIED ME IN PARADISE TO MARY THE DAUGHTER OF 'IMRAN and to the wife of Pharaoh and the sister of Moses.? (Tabarani)" (Ibn Kathir, Qisas al-Anbiya [Cairo: Dar al-Kutub, 1968/1388], p. 381- as cited in Aliah Schleifer's Mary The Blessed Virgin of Islam [Fons Vitae; ISBN: 1887752021; July 1, 1998], p. 64; bold and capital emphasis ours)
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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #10 - August 15, 2009, 10:07 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on August 15, 2009, 09:59 AM
Hot at nine years old?

No. Hot when she became barely 18 and legal....

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #11 - August 15, 2009, 10:36 AM

I copying this from another thread, as I think it is relevant here:

The first biography of the life of Mohammed was written during the 8th century A.D. by Ibn Ishack and edited by Ibn Hisham. In it we read that the Honafa was a small group "started when four persons at Mecca agreed. Those four were Zyed bin Amru bin Nafil, Waraqa bin Nofil, Obeid allah bin Jahsh, and Othman bin Al-Howerieth. They died as Sabians.

The four founders of Ahnaf were all related to Mohammed. They were descendants of Loui, one of Mohammed ancestors. Furthermore, Waraqa bin Nofel and Othman Ben Al-Huwereth were cousins of Khadijah. We know this from Mohammed?s genealogy presented by Ibn Hisham.[iv] Khadijah was the first wife of Mohammed. She played a major role in convincing Mohammed that he was a prophet, using Waraqa to achieve her goal.

Read more here: http://religionresearchinstitute.org/index_articles/ahnaf.htm

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #12 - August 15, 2009, 11:16 AM

Quote from: RIBS on August 15, 2009, 09:45 AM
Maybe because she was so clever to know that a woman in Arabia will not have the same chance, and used Mo as her puppet.....

Do you know what will be interesting? To find out if all the anti-women versus came after she has died or not? Like the wife beating and the Hijab thingys!!!

Yep, thats my issue with your theory. Islam would not be as anti-women if Khadija was pulling the strings.. unless Mo develped a spine later on in the marriage.

ALthough this is unlikely though as he had 11 wives and she was the only one that (he was allowed to go all the way with?) to bear him any children.

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #13 - August 15, 2009, 11:21 AM

He had a child named Ibrahim who died early on by his concubine.
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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #14 - August 15, 2009, 11:27 AM

Yep, but maybe he thought he had an escape clause with non-marital partners, well that is until khadija found out.

Was the concubines child the only child of his that died - who knows how this child really died ?

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #15 - August 15, 2009, 11:29 AM

Do you know what? All his sons died very early on as little boys. What pisses me off, the Olama or Islamic scholars who say that it is a wisdom of Allah to kill his children so that the prophecy does not continue as inheritance...

If God did not want him to have boys, why did not he just make him father only females? Actually why father any children at all? Look what Fatima made to Islam? -------> Yes you guessed it! The great splitting of Islam into two Shiite and Sunni parties which is doing the greatest harm to Islam so far.

Why have Boys just so that they die of disease in pain and suffering? I always wondered if it is possible to get hold of a sample from Muhammad grave and analyze it by today's advanced DNA forensic science and see what genetic diseases Mo had! and get to know him better!!

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #16 - August 15, 2009, 11:33 AM

Quote from: RIBS on August 15, 2009, 11:29 AM
I always wondered if it is possible to get hold of a sample from Muhammad grave and analyze it by today's advanced DNA forensic science and see what genetic diseases Mo had! and get to know him better!!

I have also wanted to do this for another reason. I heard that his body never decays because he was the prophet, well there's always an easy way to prove that but they would never allow you to exhume his body

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #17 - August 15, 2009, 11:39 AM

from Wiki:

Fatimah (Arabic: فاطمة‎; fāṭimah c. 605[1] or 615[2] ?632) was a daughter of the Islamic prophet Muhammad from his first wife Khadija.[1] She is regarded by Muslims as an exemplar for men and women.[3][4] She remained at her father's side through the difficulties suffered by him at the hands of the Quraysh of Mecca. After migration to Medina, she married Ali ibn Abi Talib, Muhammad's cousin, and was mother to four of his children. She died a few months after her father, and was buried in Jannat al-Baqi in the city of Medina, although the exact location of her grave is unknown. Most Shias believe that she was injured when defending Ali against the first Khalifa, and that this incident led to her early death.[5]

She seems to have performed only three acts of political significance, each recorded in almost all sources, both Sunni and Shia, though in different versions. First, after the conquest of Mecca she refused her protection to Abu Sufyan; second, after the death of the Prophet she defended Ali's cause, opposed the election of Abu Bakr, and had violent disputes with him and particularly with Umar; third, she laid claim to the property rights of her father and challenged Abu Bakr's categorical refusal to cede them, particularly Fadak and a share in the produce of Khaybar....

Surely, Allah should have known that it would happen eventually??

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #18 - August 15, 2009, 11:45 AM

Quote from: IsLame on August 15, 2009, 11:33 AM
I have also wanted to do this for another reason. I heard that his body never decays because he was the prophet, well there's always an easy way to prove that but they would never allow you to exhume his body

I am sure they said that long long time ago. They would never claim it now. Because, simply if it was true then that would be the sign that we Atheists are waiting for. Show me Muhammed's body intact and I would give up my whole life and dedicate it for the spreading of Islam!!

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #19 - August 15, 2009, 11:49 AM

Now you mention it, I have never heard this claim again since after I first heard it

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #20 - August 15, 2009, 12:20 PM

Yep.... they are Hush Hush about it now! Where is kope when you need a funny response!

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #21 - August 15, 2009, 04:20 PM

So only one of Mohammeds ELEVEN wives managed to have children ?!! Maybe mo was firing blanks and wifey no. whatever went elsewhere ...could explain why he got so worked up over infidelity
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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #22 - August 15, 2009, 04:34 PM

Quote from: RIBS on August 15, 2009, 11:29 AM
Do you know what? All his sons died very early on as little boys. What pisses me off, the Olama or Islamic scholars who say that it is a wisdom of Allah to kill his children so that the prophecy does not continue as inheritance...

Didnt know that..

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #23 - August 15, 2009, 05:51 PM

Quote from: IsLame on August 15, 2009, 11:49 AM
Now you mention it, I have never heard this claim again since after I first heard it

Oh haven't you heard? It is part of true Sunni aqeedah to believe this, because Mo said so in an authenticated hadith. If you ask why we don't just crack open that mausoleum in Madinah, the reason is that it would cause a frenzy and / or because the Wahabis won't let us and / or 'Bruzzer, you just should have eemaan, to be asking for proofs is a mark of kufr!'

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=4583&CATE=108 (see the last line)

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #24 - August 15, 2009, 05:54 PM

Quote from: IsLame on August 15, 2009, 11:27 AM
Yep, but maybe he thought he had an escape clause with non-marital partners, well that is until khadija found out.

Was the concubines child the only child of his that died - who knows how this child really died ?

No, he lost three sons that are known, according to Muslim historians. Ibrahim who was the son of Marya al Qubtiya and Abul Qasem and Abdullah who were the sons of Khadijah. Ibrahim is said to have died from a fever. All the sons died in early childhood. Frankly, it's not like it was highly unusual for children to die back then in early childhood. I'm sure those of us with family in the Middle East or South Asia have mothers or grandmothers who lost one or two children in early childhood too.

You know, though, I bet there were other female children who died in their early years and that some of the other wives had miscarriages and this was never recorded... that they weren't important enough to mention. I do believe I read once years ago that Aisha suffered some miscarriages and was believed to be infertile, but I couldn't tell you where I read that.

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Reply #25 - August 15, 2009, 07:22 PM

Quote from: fading on August 15, 2009, 05:51 PM
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=4583&CATE=108 (see the last line)

which last line dear Fading?

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Reply #26 - August 15, 2009, 08:38 PM

On the topic of Mary...

heres an excerpt from Dawkins' God Delusion:

... of several constructive mistranslations that bedevil the Bible, the
most famous being the mistranslation of Isaiah's Hebrew for young woman
(almah) into the Greek for virgin (parthenos). An easy mistake to make (think of
the English words 'maid' and 'maiden' to see how it might have happened), this
one translator's slip was to be wildly inflated and give rise to the whole preposterous
legend of Jesus' mother being a virgin!

Dude blame the poor girl, blame religion.

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Re: Islam and Christianity Were Jump-started by Women?
Reply #27 - August 15, 2009, 08:47 PM

I still think she was a naught little girl that was knocked up and cleverly covered the whole story and become a celebrity at the same time! How convenient was that?

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