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 Topic: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?

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  • Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     OP - August 20, 2009, 10:39 PM
    I've noticed that alot of people don't like Dawkins? Any reason in particular? I think hes a smart guy, but he comes off as a bit cocky sometimes. He is still a great asset to the non-religious community nonetheless.
    Maliki yawm ul LULZ
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #1 - August 20, 2009, 10:45 PM
    I don't mind him. I think some atheists are a bit embarrassed by him because they think of him as a philosopher which he isn't. His book wasn't all that either.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #2 - August 20, 2009, 10:52 PM
    Quote
    hes a smart guy, but he comes off as a bit cocky sometimes

    That.  grin12 Also because he does make mincemeat of most religious arguments and doesn't waste any words while he's doing it. That sort of thing annoys theists.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #3 - August 20, 2009, 11:09 PM
    Quote from: Diem on August 20, 2009, 10:39 PM
    I've noticed that alot of people don't like Dawkins? Any reason in particular? I think hes a smart guy, but he comes off as a bit cocky sometimes. He is still a great asset to the non-religious community nonetheless.


    I thought the "God Dellusion" was good and I wish that my family would read it. He is good at getting his point over without postulating too much philosophical jargon. There are other books and other atheists who are better armed philosophically if you are into that type of thing. But I think when it comes to atheism he is the most outspoken. When it comes to evolution etc, he really is your best bet. Another person who is good and was a former clergyman was Dan Barker, particularly when it comes to debating the existence of god. My only pet peev is that these guys write more for the judeo/christian audience and their understanding of Islam is poor. There just isn't enough material for muslims by ex-muslims out there. I've read the Ibn Warraq books and found them more to be borrowings from other scholars. Then there is stuff written by Iranian apostates which seems to be loaded with angst.
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #4 - August 21, 2009, 03:54 AM
    I feel that you dont need to debate the Quran. If you can destroy the idea of the "Abrahamic" god then whatever stems from it doesnt need to be debunked.
    Maliki yawm ul LULZ
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #5 - August 21, 2009, 03:56 AM
    True, but the Christians and Muslims say different things about him so targetting your arguments towards your audience makes sense.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #6 - August 21, 2009, 08:21 AM
    Quote from: Diem on August 20, 2009, 10:39 PM
    I've noticed that alot of people don't like Dawkins? Any reason in particular? I think hes a smart guy, but he comes off as a bit cocky sometimes. He is still a great asset to the non-religious community nonetheless.

    I thought he made great points, backed up with great examples and evidence, so its great as a resource and for quoting.  Although I thought he made his arguments in a polemic and infantile manner at times. 

    I think we could do a much better book, and one more specific to Islam
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  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #7 - August 21, 2009, 08:27 AM
    Quote
    I thought he made great points, backed up with great examples and evidence, so its great as a resource and for quoting.  Although I thought he made his arguments in a polemic and infantile manner at times.

    I think we could do a much better book, and one more specific to Islam


    Indeed, the book was good, but we really are lacking in literature targetting the muslims by ex-muslims. Most of what i've read so far has piss poor scholarship and full of rant!
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #8 - August 21, 2009, 08:27 AM
    Quote from: Diem on August 20, 2009, 10:39 PM
    I've noticed that alot of people don't like Dawkins? Any reason in particular? I think hes a smart guy, but he comes off as a bit cocky sometimes. He is still a great asset to the non-religious community nonetheless.

    He doesn't even try to be PC and such attitude iritates both, those who feel they are entitled to "respect" by default and those who feel that "respect" should be given by default.
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #9 - August 21, 2009, 08:31 AM
    BTW his latest book called The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution is available on Amazon.co.uk on preorder for just ?10 (the hardcore version). The release date is the 3rd of September.
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #10 - August 21, 2009, 08:33 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 21, 2009, 08:21 AM
    I thought he made great points, backed up with great examples and evidence, so its great as a resource and for quoting.  Although I thought he made his arguments in a polemic and infantile manner at times. 

    I think we could do a much better book, and one more specific to Islam

    Quote from: Kenan on August 21, 2009, 08:31 AM
    BTW his latest book called The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution is available on Amazon.co.uk on preorder for just ?10 (the hardcore version). The release date is the 3rd of September.


    and for these reasons, I dont think the book achieves its mission as well as it could do.  It may convince those that have major doubts, but alienates the harcore majority of muslims.
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  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #11 - August 21, 2009, 10:01 AM
    Quote
    and for these reasons, I dont think the book achieves its mission as well as it could do.  It may convince those that have major doubts, but alienates the harcore majority of muslims.


    The majority of muslims would say "Our religion isn't like that. Islam is so far from what the kuffar think". Alot of these books are written for a judeo/christian audience. If ex-muslims do write something, it has to come from someone who was involved heavily with islam at some point and who knows all the nuances thoroughly. It should be written under a pen name and not be full of angst which is what most attempts by ex-muslims suffer from. The potential problem that will surely surface, is the banning and burning, as the Rushdie affair has demonstrated.
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #12 - August 21, 2009, 11:02 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 21, 2009, 08:33 AM
    and for these reasons, I dont think the book achieves its mission as well as it could do.  It may convince those that have major doubts, but alienates the harcore majority of muslims.

    True enough he sometimes does come across as a bit tactless, but that's just the way he is and I quite like his honesty. I doubt he would have had so many opportunities to get his message across if he wasn?t controversial.
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #13 - August 21, 2009, 11:18 AM
    Quote
    True enough he sometimes does come across as a bit tactless, but that's just the way he is and I quite like his honesty. I doubt he would have had so many opportunities to get his message across if he wasn?t controversial.


    As much as I enjoy Dawkins and the new atheists, I get extremely irritated when they refer to Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Ibn Warraq as scholars. They are not scholars and are bad examples of people representing the ex-muslim. I would interested in translating works by a Turkish scholar called Turan Dursun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan_Dursun. He used to be a mufti and later renounced islam and became an atheist.
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #14 - August 21, 2009, 12:54 PM
    Quote from: Diem on August 20, 2009, 10:39 PM
    I've noticed that alot of people don't like Dawkins? Any reason in particular? I think hes a smart guy, but he comes off as a bit cocky sometimes. He is still a great asset to the non-religious community nonetheless.


    Dawkins rules  Afro

    I saw him on a bike in Turl Street a few days ago, while I was delivering Eggs. I was blocking his way with my van and he had to get off his bike and walk round me. I leaned out the window and smiled and said "Hi" and waved - he smiled back - the sort of smile that says 'Ah.. he knows who I am - is he going to punch me or shake my hand'... lol

    It all happened so quickly - I wish I had said something more coherent and sensible - next time I will be prepared lol  grin12
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #15 - August 21, 2009, 01:12 PM
    Quote
    Dawkins rules  Afro

    I saw him on a bike in Turl Street a few days ago, while I was delivering Eggs. I was blocking his way with my van and he had to get off his bike and walk round me. I leaned out the window and smiled and said "Hi" and waved - he smiled back - the sort of smile that says 'Ah.. he knows who I am - is he going to punch me or shake my hand'... lol

    It all happened so quickly - I wish I had said something more coherent and sensible - next time I will be prepared lol  grin12


    Hass, take your copy of "The God Dellusion" next time so that you can get it signed by him.  Afro
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #16 - August 21, 2009, 04:40 PM
    I like him

    Can seem confident and smug some times but it's for a good cause, and he is well-read and intelligent enough to pull it off.

    I can also share his impatience as a scientist around idiots with their horoscopes and other unscientific superstitions.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #17 - August 21, 2009, 05:13 PM
    Quote
    I like him

    Can seem confident and smug some times but it's for a good cause, and he is well-read and intelligent enough to pull it off.

    I can also share his impatience as a scientist around idiots with their horoscopes and other unscientific superstitions.


    I agree. I think muslims tend to shy away from him though and won't listen to him. When I was a believer I simply thought that Dawkins hadn't met his match yet, from the ullema.
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #18 - August 21, 2009, 05:16 PM
    He won't meet a match, because he argues not on moral grounds or spiritual grounds but on scientific grounds, you can't beat this with: "Oh but that verse is actually a peaceful one...."
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #19 - August 21, 2009, 05:19 PM
    Quote
    He won't meet a match, because he argues not on moral grounds or spiritual grounds but on scientific grounds, you can't beat this with: "Oh but that verse is actually a peaceful one...."


    I mean when it comes to theology. I know scientifically muslims would have their arses whipped!
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #20 - August 21, 2009, 09:07 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 21, 2009, 12:54 PM
    Dawkins rules  Afro

    I saw him on a bike in Turl Street a few days ago, while I was delivering Eggs. I was blocking his way with my van and he had to get off his bike and walk round me. I leaned out the window and smiled and said "Hi" and waved - he smiled back - the sort of smile that says 'Ah.. he knows who I am - is he going to punch me or shake my hand'... lol

    It all happened so quickly - I wish I had said something more coherent and sensible - next time I will be prepared lol  grin12

     mysmilie_977  missed opportunity, if it happens again be sure to ask if he has ever seen your youtube videos, and about yourself being an apostate.  I would love to ask him what he thinks we should do regarding Islam..
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  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #21 - August 21, 2009, 09:13 PM
    Quote

       missed opportunity, if it happens again be sure to ask if he has ever seen your youtube videos, and about yourself being an apostate.  I would love to ask him what he thinks we should do regarding Islam..



    He said something about it in October's meeting if I remember correctly.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #22 - August 21, 2009, 09:35 PM
    What meeting  Huh?
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  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #23 - August 21, 2009, 09:39 PM
    COEM meeting 10/10/08 I think with Namazie, Dawkins, some comedian etc etc. It was at a hall place in London
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #24 - August 21, 2009, 09:51 PM
    Conway hall ? I think it was the campaign against sharia  From what I remember , Dawkins spent most of his slot sending up Harun Yahyah - entertaining enough but kind of shooting fish in a barrell I thought
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #25 - August 21, 2009, 09:56 PM
    Thank you thats the one

    Well, anyway, as an ex-Christian and a scientist I don't see how he could be too useful to Muslim apostates about how to deal with Islam, most apostates seem to be cultural Muslims in some form and thus need a bit of help adapting to this and maintaining a balance, only someone who's been there and done that could help.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #26 - August 21, 2009, 10:05 PM
    Quote
    Thank you thats the one

    Well, anyway, as an ex-Christian and a scientist I don't see how he could be too useful to Muslim apostates about how to deal with Islam, most apostates seem to be cultural Muslims in some form and thus need a bit of help adapting to this and maintaining a balance, only someone who's been there and done that could help.


    True, there really isn't a huge amount of muslims who take Dawkins that seriously, because they are usually under the impression imho that he might not be a good match for a serious muslim theologian. I'm also under the impression that muslim theologians might not take him seriously as a worthy contender.
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #27 - August 21, 2009, 10:45 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on August 21, 2009, 09:39 PM
    COEM meeting 10/10/08 I think with Namazie, Dawkins, some comedian etc etc. It was at a hall place in London

    We got any footage or transcripts of this meeting?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #28 - August 21, 2009, 10:55 PM
    There were a couple of vids on the Council site I think, and someone posted a YouTube vid here somewhere.
    ETA: Mind you the one here was just Dawkins, from memory.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Dawkins - Whats with the hate?
     Reply #29 - August 24, 2009, 12:36 PM
    You guys should grab any video of anyone bashing Harun Yahya and trumpet it. You still have those youtube links?
    Maliki yawm ul LULZ
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