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 Topic: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim

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  • Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     OP - August 29, 2009, 06:27 PM
    found this online for anyone that has not read it yet (including me) - can anyone who has read it confirm if it is the complete book/how much is missing...
    * Why%20I%20Am%20Not%20a%20Muslim%20by%20Ibn%20Warraq.pdf (205.01 KB - downloaded 5758 times.)
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  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #1 - August 29, 2009, 06:31 PM
    That's not the full book, it's just one chapter of it Tongue The book itself is really long.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #2 - August 29, 2009, 06:39 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 29, 2009, 06:27 PM
    found this online for anyone that has not read it yet (including me) - can anyone who has read it confirm if it is the complete book/how much is missing...


    Yep not a full book. It's not great. I'd give it about 6.5/10. If you want to borrow it let me know I have a hardback copy.
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #3 - August 29, 2009, 06:44 PM
    I am Reading it now, very poor in my view which is a shame. He includes too many lengthy quotes, referencing is poor and arguments could have been made better.

    I still think there is a niche for such a book but this isn't it. I can imagine Muslims Reading it and picking many holes.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #4 - August 29, 2009, 06:48 PM
    Not read it - but wondering if anyone has read my own story which I posted online

    Link: http://abooali.wordpress.com/

    In comparison - what do you think?

    What do I need to do do to make my blog something that could be publishable? (Not that I'm gonna do it lol)
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #5 - August 29, 2009, 06:49 PM
    Quote
    I am Reading it now, very poor in my view which is a shame. He includes too many lengthy quotes, referencing is poor and arguments could have been made better.

    I still think there is a niche for such a book but this isn't it. I can imagine Muslims Reading it and picking many holes.


    His book is really an extended biography IMHO. I'd much rather read the works of the guys that he has quoted such as John Wansborough, Ignaz Goldziher and Joseph Schacht. I don't think I've read anything of his that is original. You would be better off reading the book that influenced his title. "Why I am not a Christian" by Bertrand Russell.
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #6 - August 29, 2009, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 29, 2009, 06:48 PM
    Not read it - but wondering if anyone has read my own story which I posted online

    Link: http://abooali.wordpress.com/

    In comparison - what do you think?

    What do I need to do do to make my blog something that could be publishable? (Not that I'm gonna do it lol)

    I think you should publish it Hassan, you are a very good writer and with an excellent story to tell yes The only problem is the threat to your life, I'm sure a published book might provoke more threats then a couple of youtube videos.

    Your bio isn't really comparable to Ibn Warraq's book though, they are two different topics. Your vids make a better comparison and I personally feel your vids are a lot better.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #7 - August 29, 2009, 07:31 PM
    Quote
    I think you should publish it Hassan, you are a very good writer and with an excellent story to tell  The only problem is the threat to your life, I'm sure a published book might provoke more threats then a couple of youtube videos.

    Your bio isn't really comparable to Ibn Warraq's book though, they are two different topics. Your vids make a better comparison and I personally feel your vids are a lot better.


    Islame and myself had this discussion previously about publishing a book. In theory it sounds good, but it's a real bummer practically. Just look at Ibn Warraq, the guy had to wear a silly wig and sunglasses for over a decade because of death threats.
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #8 - August 29, 2009, 07:36 PM
    Can you not get one published anonymously?
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #9 - August 29, 2009, 10:08 PM
    I've read half of this book and didn't get round to finishing it.  I preferred his other book "Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out".
    .
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #10 - August 29, 2009, 11:03 PM
    Quote
    I've read half of this book and didn't get round to finishing it.  I preferred his other book "Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out".


    NowI would be interested in reading that one. Is there anything interesting interms of reason for leaving?
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #11 - August 29, 2009, 11:26 PM
    "Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out" consists of a lot of testimonies from former Muslims.

    The rest of it, ie the bits written by Ibn Warraq himself, are more to-the-point.  I would definitely recommend it to a newly apostatized Muslim, or a Muslim who is on the verge.  That was the stage I was at when I read the book, and I loved it and could related to many of the testimonies.

    .
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #12 - August 29, 2009, 11:30 PM
    Quote
    The rest of it, ie the bits written by Ibn Warraq himself, are more to-the-point.  I would definitely recommend it to a newly apostatized Muslim, or a Muslim who is on the verge.  That was the stage I was at when I read the book, and I loved it and could related to many of the testimonies.


    Do you have a PDF?
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #13 - August 30, 2009, 12:06 AM
    Quote from: 20yearstoolong
    Do you have a PDF?

    I don't sorry.  I have the book at home though, and I'm willing to lend it.
    .
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #14 - August 30, 2009, 12:31 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 29, 2009, 06:48 PM
    Not read it - but wondering if anyone has read my own story which I posted online

    Link: http://abooali.wordpress.com/

    In comparison - what do you think?

    What do I need to do do to make my blog something that could be publishable? (Not that I'm gonna do it lol)

    I think your blog is already publishable, and would sell well- particularly after the cross promotion your youtube videos provide. 

    I have already thought about re-writing my blog and pubslishing it.  I would probably approach the same publishers of Ibn Warraqs book.  Its being sold at ?15 a copy, and loads of peoplehave bought it.  You can only imagine how much it would have made for him if he had written a better book.

    I am less worried about dying for my beliefs as I used to do, and I think there is money in it.  I might as well make something  out from the time loss and problems Islam has caused me, which I would either give to ex-muslim charities or use to fund a decadent lifestyle  Afro
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  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #15 - August 30, 2009, 09:15 AM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on August 30, 2009, 12:06 AM
    I don't sorry.  I have the book at home though, and I'm willing to lend it.


    Great idea! I'd love to borrow it. I think distance might be a problem though! wacko
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #16 - August 30, 2009, 09:44 AM
    Shahid/peru/pakman/20yearstool - are there any bits that you have taken with you from Ibn's book, anything you remember - just wondering if its worth reading for the little nuggets or gems of information that I might get from this book
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  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #17 - August 30, 2009, 11:25 AM
    Yes there is the odd useful quote but I think I could have written a better book. You can get the odd good quote anywhere, including FFI
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #18 - September 01, 2009, 09:08 PM
    I took a lot from Ibn Warraqs book.  Most of the things are common knowledge to us now.  For example, the fact that Yusufali added the word "lightly" in the wife-beating verse 4:34, when that word doesn't actually exist in the Arabic.

    The main thing I got from the book was the fact that reading all the testimonies reaffirmed my own doubts. 
    .
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #19 - September 01, 2009, 09:11 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 30, 2009, 09:44 AM
    Shahid/peru/pakman/20yearstool - are there any bits that you have taken with you from Ibn's book, anything you remember - just wondering if its worth reading for the little nuggets or gems of information that I might get from this book


    Islame, have you finished reading the Ibn Warraq's book? What did you think of it?
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #20 - September 01, 2009, 09:26 PM
    Finished?  I only got to read a few sentences of it at the back of the mosque.. from what I have seen from flicking through it, it seems badly structured
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  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #21 - September 01, 2009, 09:44 PM
    Quote
    Finished?  I only got to read a few sentences of it at the back of the mosque.. from what I have seen from flicking through it, it seems badly structured


    You would be better off picking up a book by the people whom he has quoted in his book.
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #22 - September 24, 2009, 06:46 AM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on August 29, 2009, 11:26 PM
    "Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out" consists of a lot of testimonies from former Muslims.

    The rest of it, ie the bits written by Ibn Warraq himself, are more to-the-point.  I would definitely recommend it to a newly apostatized Muslim, or a Muslim who is on the verge.  That was the stage I was at when I read the book, and I loved it and could related to many of the testimonies.




    Borrowed this book from the library and am about halfway through it. I don't think I'm gonna go through it page by page because all he's done is taken testimonies from ISIS and FFI and lumped them together. He's placed some old notes from his other works in the beginning and end of the book. I wouldn't recommend buying it. Try your local library if you want to have a flick through.
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #23 - February 28, 2010, 05:42 AM
    In a marathon session I finished The Quran, Leaving Islam, and Why I Am Not a Muslim in just a few days.

    My take even though I'm not an ex Muslim

    WIANAM- Long, dense, mostly a hodge podge of what I can imagine are more targeted, concoise prose.  Very "biast" in the sense that it isn't written as an objective critique.  This may be fine for a shorter work, but after 400 pages it gets tiresome.

    Leaving Islam-  Even as a non Muslim I found this inspiring.  Some tales were of open defiance, some of quiet desperation, some were people who tangentally entered Islam, others who were deeply involved.  I found one critique, written by a Princeton grad ( I dont remember who) was very well written.  I could imagine being convenced if  I had a shadow of a doubt. 

    The Quran- As a work of fiction long dull repetative, lacking a clear developement of ideas and a continuation of ideas.  I did like some parts though but I don't remember much about it. 
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #24 - February 28, 2010, 07:22 AM


    books from that man  [1928-2006] had  more powerful influence than any recent books from those who left Islam

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HNNgKiGyWE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6r0-oUSrEM

    I can not get that 3rd .. some Muslim bugger replaced it..

    Indeed    Islam is the most primitive of all faiths..


    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #25 - February 28, 2010, 11:27 AM
    Ah.. So this is Anwar Shaykh. I've yet to watch the clips and read his books.
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #26 - February 28, 2010, 11:48 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 28, 2010, 07:22 AM
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    books from that man  [1928-2006] had  more powerful influence than any recent books from those who left Islam

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HNNgKiGyWE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6r0-oUSrEM

    I can not get that 3rd .. some Muslim bugger replaced it..

    Indeed    Islam is the most primitive of all faiths..


    yeezevee

    had never heard him speak nor seen him until now..
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  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #27 - February 28, 2010, 12:28 PM


    I came across Anwar Shaikh's writing a while back. I think he was brave for 'coming out' as an apostate when he did. I think I read in one of his essays about how he was threatened by Muslims in Wales for what he was saying.

    Ibn Warraq, as far as I know, he was one of the first about a decade ago or more ago to be saying the stuff he was saying online, when it was very underground still (well its still underground because there is still inhibitions, but hey it was even worse then)

    I admire him in many ways, even though he is more of a synthesiser of others ideas and insights than an original thinker. In the future, people like Ibn Warraq can hopefully find more variety and space amongst Islamic dissenters than were on display to him when he came out as an ex-Muslim to relate to - it was very narrow then, I guess sites like CEMB are helping to create that space.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #28 - February 28, 2010, 12:39 PM
    IsLame
    Quote
    had never heard him speak nor seen him until now..

    so you never read anything what he wrote.,

    It is the  tragedy with fools in the subcontinent  that are fighting Islam., and they are doing that  just because it is Islam not because it is/was wrong..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Ibn warraq - why I am not a muslim
     Reply #29 - February 28, 2010, 02:55 PM
    yep, ive read many snippets of what he has written.. just never been able to put a face to the name.  lol - ive only just discovered that he's dead..
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