High IQ turns academics into atheists

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #30 - September 05, 2009, 09:39 PM

I can't find the original but here's an example:

http://knol.google.com/k/alexander-emilfaro/iq-by-country/kpxsjkpzgwux/5#

Anyway, I shouldn't have said anything

This is why I don't talk about anthropology/sociology here and do it elsewhere, it's not really the place for such discussions

Allat, I was talking to panoptic, who once again was going on the extreme side as he often does. I agree with your points about other factors, that's why I said: "it could be a factor that plays a role"

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #31 - September 05, 2009, 09:42 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on September 05, 2009, 05:11 PM
I don't think it is just coincidence the western world (& Far Eastern region) are more advance. I think his explanation makes a lot of sense:

The theory I have advanced to explain these race differences in IQ is that when early humans migrated from Africa into Eurasia they encountered the difficulty of survival during cold winters. This problem was especially severe during the ice ages. Plant foods were not available for much of the year and survival required the hunting and dismembering of large animals for food and the ability to make tools, weapons and clothing, to build shelters and make fires. These problems required higher intelligence and exerted selection pressure for enhanced intelligence, particularly on the Orientals.

Ok, I'm on a roll here.

Why, pray tell, would the "Orientals" be under more severe selection pressures than the Europeans during the ice age? Winters were just as cold in Europe. Remember that during the ice age Europe was not getting the benefit of the Gulf Stream in moderating its climate. Even today that only applies to the western areas of Europe.

As for plant foods, bear in mind that cold weather makes long term storage of food much easier for two reasons. First, things are slower to "go off" in very cold weather. Vegetables rot in the tropics like you wouldn't believe but will last for ages in colder areas. Second, many of the rodents and other animals that would normally eat stored plant foods have evolved to hibernate in extremely cold winters which means they aren't doing any munching at the time.

Lynn's arguments here are appallingly bad even at a superficial glance. He really should have more sense.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #32 - September 05, 2009, 09:43 PM

Quote from: FinallyFree on September 05, 2009, 09:39 PM
Allat, I was talking to panoptic, who once again was going on the extreme side as he often does. I agree with your points about other factors, that's why I said: "it could be a factor that plays a role"

Gotcha.

BTW, I'm in school studying Anthropology too. I agree that the subject is very complex and there's no 1 simplistic answer to the sophisticated question of human intelligence.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #33 - September 05, 2009, 09:49 PM

Quote from: marleya on September 05, 2009, 09:30 PM
You use dogs to explain your point?When you are talking about humans and intelligence?And want to make it into that some races are more intelligence than others?

What a foolish argument!And when it comes to dogs,the mixed breed dogs,are the best,both in health,temperement,learning abillity,the pure dog races has a lot of issues.
We are all connected with one another,we humans,and there is not something called races,among us.On the inside,where it all matters,we are just the same!

You are absolutely right about mixed breed. I think this is the way forward for the mankind. I am in a mixed race relationship and I have a mixed race daughter. I am very happy to have a mixed race child because this is proven that mixed race (animals or humans) are genetically healthier and fit.

I partially believe that inbreeding in certain countries is causing lower IQ levels. This is a sensitive issue and a few people got offended when I started this discussion on this forum. But there are many research papers available on the internet proving this.
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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #34 - September 05, 2009, 09:57 PM

"I partially believe that inbreeding in certain countries is causing lower IQ levels. This is a sensitive issue and a few people got offended when I started this discussion on this forum"

Don't see how anyone could find that offensive on a forum like this one, it goes without saying really.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #35 - September 05, 2009, 10:03 PM

Quote from: open_thinking on September 05, 2009, 09:49 PM
You are absolutely right about mixed breed. I think this is the way forward for the mankind. I am in a mixed race relationship and I have a mixed race daughter. I am very happy to have a mixed race child because this is proven that mixed race (animals or humans) are genetically healthier and fit.

I partially believe that inbreeding in certain countries is causing lower IQ levels. This is a sensitive issue and a few people got offended when I started this discussion on this forum. But there are many research papers available on the internet proving this.

Ok Open-thinking.

I think food issues,are more important,and the fact that children that dont have the essensials in early life,never fullfill their intelligence lewels.And that millions of children exeperience this.
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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #36 - September 05, 2009, 10:06 PM

Quote from: allat on September 05, 2009, 09:26 PM
it is very likely that highly intelligent people are living in the refugee camps in Zimbabwe, the slums of Bombay and the rice fields of Bangladesh, but who are not able to live self-actualized lives due to the very limited opportunities they have because they were born where they were born.

One of my extended family members grew up in a small village in Bangladesh. He'd stay up studying until 4am in the morning. He later worked in Japan as an engineer. he's now a professor at NUS in Singapore. I think the world is flat enough for the gifted to succeed. I have no doubt there are bright people from the areas you've mentioned.

But nurture of today is a different argument to millions of years of evolution. A normal curve is exactly that: normal. There will be a mean average, meaning a standard distribution applies.

As to education: of course one will do better in life born into a better educational systems. But why is is that some cultures have better education system? Could it be that (I think here, not fact), low EQ nations full of corruption don't care for others as much as high EQ nations, hence the schools are a bad state? I think so, unfortunately.

osmanthus: Since evolutions happens over millions and millions of years, I think it is important to ensure that causes are taken into account with certain groups evolving in one area over a very long period. Migration is a lot quicker than evolution. Just look at the technologically advance Australians, they never evolved in a hot climate otherwise they'd be just like the Indigenous Australians. And again coming back to nurture, give the Indigenous Aussies a good education and they will do well.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #37 - September 05, 2009, 10:10 PM

Quote from: open_thinking on September 05, 2009, 09:49 PM
You are absolutely right about mixed breed. I think this is the way forward for the mankind. I am in a mixed race relationship and I have a mixed race daughter. I am very happy to have a mixed race child because this is proven that mixed race (animals or humans) are genetically healthier and fit.

I agree. Nature loves a variety.

Quote from: open_thinking on September 05, 2009, 09:49 PM
I partially believe that inbreeding in certain countries is causing lower IQ levels. This is a sensitive issue and a few people got offended when I started this discussion on this forum. But there are many research papers available on the internet proving this.

I think most people understand or at least have some idea about the issues surrounding inbreeding. But it would be good to be aware of the fact that many muslims (and thus, now, ex-muslims), usually through no conscious choice of their own, *are* married to 1st cousins. Many have children with them who are not of below average intelligence or functionality. They love their children... To say that inbreeding causes children with smaller brains is to offend those people. Especially when their children are not below average in any way. Even in Muslim cultures, the general understanding is that 1st cousins shouldn't be married more than once in a generation. So, if my mother and father were first cousins, I shouldn't have kids with my first cousin, and so forth. Most muslims I've met have known about this. Most muslims believe they can by pass the bad side-effects of inbreeding by only marrying 1st cousins less than once every couple of generations. I'm not saying I agree with their conclusion - just saying that they are aware of this and do take it into account much of the time.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #38 - September 05, 2009, 10:12 PM

Quote from: marleya on September 05, 2009, 09:30 PM
You use dogs to explain your point?When you are talking about humans and intelligence?And want to make it into that some races are more intelligence than others?

Lovely, isn't it?

Quote
We are all connected with one another,we humans,and there is not something called races,among us.On the inside,where it all matters,we are just the same!

We all have more in common than we differ.

There's only one race.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #39 - September 05, 2009, 10:12 PM

Country   IQ 2002   IQ 2006
Hong Kong   107   108
Singapore   103   108
North Korea   105*   106*
South Korea   106   106
Japan   105   105
China   100   105
Republic of China   104   105
Italy   102   102
Iceland   98*   101
Mongolia   98*   101*
Switzerland   101   101
Austria   102   100
Luxembourg   101*   100*
Netherlands   102   100
Norway   98   100
United Kingdom   100   100
Belgium   100   99
Canada   97   99
Estonia   97*   99
Finland   97   99
Germany   102   99
New Zealand   100   99
Poland   99   99
Sweden   101   99
Andorra   N/A   98*
Australia   98   98
Czech Republic   97   98
Denmark   98   98
France   98   98
Hungary   99   98
Latvia   97*   98*
Spain   99   98
United States   98   98
Belarus   96*   97*
Malta   95*   97
Russia   96   97
Ukraine   96*   97*
Moldova   95*   96*
Slovakia   96   96
Slovenia   95   96
Uruguay   96   96
Israel   94   95
Portugal   95   95
Armenia   93*   94*
Georgia   93*   94*
Kazakhstan   93*   94*
Romania   94   94
Vietnam   96*   94
Argentina   96   93
Bulgaria   93   93
Greece   92   92
Malaysia   92   92
Ireland   93   92
Brunei   92*   91*
Cambodia   89*   91*
Cyprus   92*   91*
Lithuania   97*   91
Republic of Macedonia   93*   91*
Thailand   91   91
Albania   90*   90*
Bermuda   N/A   90
Bosnia and Herzegovina   N/A   90*
Chile   93*   90
Croatia   90   90
Kyrgyzstan   87*   90*
Turkey   90   90
Cook Islands   N/A   89
Costa Rica   91*   89*
Laos   89*   89
Mauritius   81*   89
Serbia   93*   89
Suriname   89   89
Ecuador   80   88
Mexico   87   88
Samoa   87   88
Azerbaijan   87*   87*
Bolivia   85*   87
Brazil   87   87
Timor-Leste   N/A   87*
Guyana   84*   87*
Indonesia   89   87
Iraq   87   87
Burma   86*   87*
Tajikistan   87*   87*
Turkmenistan   87*   87*
Uzbekistan   87*   87*
Kuwait   83*   86
Philippines   86   86
Seychelles   81*   86*
Tonga   87   86
Cuba   85   85
Fiji   84   85
Kiribati   84*   85*
New Caledonia   N/A   85
Peru   90   85
Trinidad and Tobago   80*   85*
Yemen   83*   85
Afghanistan   83*   84*
Belize   83*   84*
Colombia   88   84
Federated States of Micronesia   84*   84*
Iran   84   84
Jordan   87*   84
Marshall Islands   84   84
Morocco   85   84
Pakistan   81*   84
Panama   84*   84*
Paraguay   85*   84
Puerto Rico   84   84
Saudi Arabia   83*   84*
Solomon Islands   84*   84*
Bahamas   78*   84*
United Arab Emirates   83*   84*
Vanuatu   84*   84*
Venezuela   88*   84
Algeria   84*   83*
Bahrain   83*   83*
Libya   84*   83*
Oman   83*   83*
Papua New Guinea   84*   83
Syria   87*   83
Tunisia   84*   83*
Bangladesh   81*   82*
Dominican Republic   84*   82
India   81   82
Lebanon   86   82
Madagascar   79*   82
Egypt   83   81
Honduras   84*   81
Maldives   81*   81*
Nicaragua   84*   81*
Northern Mariana Islands   N/A   81
Barbados   78   80
Bhutan   78*   80*
El Salvador   84*   80*
Guatemala   79   79
Sri Lanka   81*   79
Nepal   78   78
Qatar   78   78
Comoros   79*   77*
Cape Verde   78*   76*
Mauritania   73*   76*
Uganda   73   73
Kenya   72   72
South Africa   72   72
Tanzania   72   72
Ghana   71   71
Grenada   75*   71*
Jamaica   72   71
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines   75*   71
Sudan   72   71
Zambia   77   71
Antigua and Barbuda   75*   70*
Benin   69*   70*
Botswana   72*   70*
Namibia   72*   70*
Rwanda   70*   70*
Togo   69*   70*
Burundi   70*   69*
C?te d'Ivoire   71*   69*
Malawi   71*   69*
Mali   68*   69*
Niger   67*   69*
Nigeria   67   69
Angola   69*   68*
Burkina Faso   66*   68*
Chad   72*   68*
Djibouti   68*   68*
Eritrea   68*   68*
Somalia   68*   68*
Swaziland   72*   68*
Dominica   75*   67
Guinea   63   67
Guinea-Bissau   63*   67*
Haiti   72*   67*
Lesotho   72*   67*
Liberia   64*   67*
Saint Kitts and Nevis   75*   67*
S?o Tom? and Pr?ncipe   59*   67*
Senegal   64*   66*
Gambia   64*   66*
Zimbabwe   66   66
Congo   73   65
Cameroon   70*   64
Central African Republic   68*   64
Democratic Republic of the Congo   65   64
Ethiopia   63   64
Gabon   66*   64*
Mozambique   72*   64
Sierra Leone   64   64
Saint Lucia   75*   62
Equatorial Guinea   59   59

Source
http://knol.google.com/k/alexander-emilfaro/iq-by-country/kpxsjkpzgwux/5#
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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #40 - September 05, 2009, 10:13 PM

Btw: Each of us has at least 100 new mutations in our DNA, according to research published in the journal Current Biology.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #41 - September 05, 2009, 10:17 PM

I'm sorry Marleya your biting out of your own cake

Meaning, first you tell them off for comparing dogs and humans, but then you go along to say that mixed breeds are better than pure breeds and that humans are probably the same in that regard-isn't that hypocritical?

It's not that I agree or disagree with your argument but you can't have it both ways.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #42 - September 05, 2009, 10:18 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on September 05, 2009, 10:06 PM
As to education: of course one will do better in life born into a better educational systems. But why is is that some cultures have better education system? Could it be that (I think here, not fact), low EQ nations full of corruption don't care for others as much as high EQ nations, hence the schools are a bad state? I think so, unfortunately.

I would ascribe that to the vicious circle of brain drain. Each generation has been going through the same things... wars, famine, etc., many of the people with higher intelligences leave those countries, move to and assimilate into countries with better systems, leaving the poorer nations hollow and unable to progress, thus keeping them in that vicious circle.

It's a complex issue and one would have to trace historical events and identify the patterns that allow those poorer nations to remain bastions of corruption.

Take Muhammed Yunus, the Nobel Peace Prize winning Economist. He's Bangladeshi. According to eugenics-friendly "scientists", he could not exist as he's not from Eurasia or the Far East.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #43 - September 05, 2009, 10:20 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on September 05, 2009, 10:06 PM
osmanthus: Since evolutions happens over millions and millions of years, I think it is important to ensure that causes are taken into account with certain groups evolving in one area over a very long period. Migration is a lot quicker than evolution. Just look at the technologically advance Australians, they never evolved in a hot climate otherwise they'd be just like the Indigenous Australians. And again coming back to nurture, give the Indigenous Aussies a good education and they will do well.

I'm well aware of the timescales involved in evolution. In particular I am well aware of the timescales involved in human evolution during the last ice age. It did not happen over millions and millions of years so that shoots that claim right down in flames. We are talking about a timescale measured in a few tens of thousands of years at the most, and it corresponds pretty well with migration speeds during the same period. So, we're back to what I said earlier.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #44 - September 05, 2009, 10:22 PM

Quote from: panoptic on September 05, 2009, 10:12 PM
Lovely, isn't it?

It was actually a valid analogy as far as it went. Dogs are animals. Humans are animals. We're both controlled by the same laws of genetics. Deal.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #45 - September 05, 2009, 10:23 PM

on the list above, why qatar, oman UAE area in the middle. They have extremely high quality of life, access to education and food etc?

Why china, who still have relatively low per capita GDP is high on the list?
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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #46 - September 05, 2009, 10:24 PM

Quote from: FinallyFree on September 05, 2009, 09:39 PM
Allat, I was talking to panoptic, who once again was going on the extreme side as he often does. I agree with your points about other factors, that's why I said: "it could be a factor that plays a role"

That's dishonest because she said the same thing as me and she should stand by what she said.

The 'other factors' happen to be most sound ones.

We won't lose anything if we drop a concept that was a creation of colonialist ideology that was/is deployed to oppress groups of people. Because this is about ideology not science.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #47 - September 05, 2009, 10:27 PM

Not really, what I was focusing on is what you said about race being non existent and rubbish and belonging in the dustbin, she didn't say that or even hint that. What she said was sensible and agreeable and balanced. You on the other hand as usual took an argument, twisted it out of proportion and bafflingly said something outlandish.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #48 - September 05, 2009, 10:27 PM

Quote from: open_thinking on September 05, 2009, 10:23 PM
on the list above, why qatar, oman UAE area in the middle. They have extremely high quality of life, access to education and food etc?

Why china, who still have relatively low per capita GDP is high on the list?

Considering the very high number of Jewish Nobel Prize winners you may do well to ask why Israel is not up the top of the list. Oh, wait. They're not Orientals. That can't be right. Hmmm.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #49 - September 05, 2009, 10:35 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on September 05, 2009, 10:20 PM
It did not happen over millions and millions of years so that shoots that claim right down in flames.

Three million years ago, the Earth's climate was changing, with devastating consequences for the African landscape - and for our ancestors.

Leaving home: But by 2 million years ago, a new species of Homo appeared - the first species we would truly recognise as human.

Quote from: allat on September 05, 2009, 10:18 PM
Take Muhammed Yunus, the Nobel Peace Prize winning Economist. He's Bangladeshi. According to eugenics-friendly "scientists", he could not exist as he's not from Eurasia or the Far East.

Bright chap indeed. As mentioned before, in a normal distribution deviations exists. These deviations overlap which different norms are placed over each other.

osmanthus: Re Jewish people:

The Economist - Why Ashkenazi Jews have slightingly higher IQ
(full version here)

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #50 - September 05, 2009, 10:36 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on September 05, 2009, 10:35 PM

Three million years ago, the Earth's climate was changing, with devastating consequences for the African landscape - and for our ancestors.

Leaving home: But by 2 million years ago, a new species of Homo appeared - the first species we would truly recognise as human.

None of which is relevant to human evolution during the last ice age, which was the main point in question.

ETA: Basic info:

Quote from: The Notorious Wiki for convenience
The last glacial period was the most recent glacial period within the current ice age, occurring in the Pleistocene epoch. It began about 110,000 years ago and ended about 9,600 - 9,700 BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_glacial_period

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #51 - September 05, 2009, 10:44 PM

Oh and please don't start quibbling about the technical definition of "ice age". We are discussing human evolution (meaning Homo sapiens) in Europe and Asia. The Pliocene is not relevant.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #52 - September 05, 2009, 10:45 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on September 05, 2009, 10:22 PM
It was actually a valid analogy as far as it went. Dogs are animals. Humans are animals. We're both controlled by the same laws of genetics. Deal.

Humans aren't divided into breeds the same way dogs are. Some dogs can't mix with others.

It sounds similar to "put a dog in a stable" analogy that nationalists employ. Considering they're arguing for 'national IQ differences' too. The poster should know better, really.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #53 - September 05, 2009, 10:46 PM

What I'm thinking is this:

Out of Africa - Shortly after Homo ergaster appeared 1.9 million years ago, humans began to leave Africa for the first time and migrate to other continents.

So some humans migrated 1.9 million years ago. Others didn't. Those who did, in colder climates would have evolved differently than those in warmer climates. If exterior features are so apparent (e.g. skin colour, height, muscle type, fat deposits) , why is there a denial for interior feature changes?

EDIT: Ah, okay, it wasn't millions and millions of years of evolution, it was a million and 900,000 ... give or take!

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #54 - September 05, 2009, 10:47 PM

Quote from: FinallyFree on September 05, 2009, 10:27 PM
Not really, what I was focusing on is what you said about race being non existent and rubbish and belonging in the dustbin, she didn't say that or even hint that. What she said was sensible and agreeable and balanced. You on the other hand as usual took an argument, twisted it out of proportion and bafflingly said something outlandish.

"This is a dangerous way to classify humans, and its purpose is to to justify racism. In fact race is an artificial construct" and "Race doesn't actually exist. But racism certainly does..." Is different from what I said, how?

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #55 - September 05, 2009, 10:49 PM

Quote from: panoptic on September 05, 2009, 10:45 PM
Humans aren't divided into breeds the same way dogs are. Some dogs can't mix with others.

It sounds similar to "put a dog in a stable" analogy that nationalists employ. Considering they're arguing for 'national IQ differences' too. The poster should know better, really.

I agree about the dodgey connotations of the analogy but it is still a valid analogy as far as it goes. Even among dog breeds that can breed with each other there are still discernible differences in intelligence and behaviour and these can be traced to genetic causes. What I am saying is that there is no a priori reason to rule out the same thing in humans. However as far as I know nothing conclusive has been demonstrated for humans either.

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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #56 - September 05, 2009, 11:00 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on September 05, 2009, 10:46 PM
What I'm thinking is this:

Out of Africa - Shortly after Homo ergaster appeared 1.9 million years ago, humans began to leave Africa for the first time and migrate to other continents.

So some humans migrated 1.9 million years ago. Others didn't. Those who did, in colder climates would have evolved differently than those in warmer climates. If exterior features are so apparent (e.g. skin colour, height, muscle type, fat deposits) , why is there a denial for interior feature changes?

EDIT: Ah, okay, it wasn't millions and millions of years of evolution, it was a million and 900,000 ... give or take!

Ok, but this relies on two assumptions. One is that the mulitregional evolution of modern humans is the correct theory (which is unproven last I checked). Unless you have an unbroken fossil record of evolution from H. ergaster to modern H. sapiens sapiens in Europe and particularly in Asia (since they are "top of the tree") then you can't really claim multiregional evolution. Without a firm basis for the multiregional claim then arguably we are not talking about a timescale that is anywhere near one million years. "Tens of thousands" may well be the case, as I mentioned.

Furthermore, my point about the Inuit still stands. They are Asian, basically. They just went further east into harsher climates than the rest of the Asians, so if this theory about cold winters and Asians is correct then the Inuit should test as high as the Chinese or higher when given IQ tests.

Second assumption here is that external features will be a strictly conserved as internal features. You know evolution doesn't work like that. Some things are more strictly conserved than others. That is why we are all classified as H. sapiens sapiens: because of the underlying similarities. In particular, biological functions that are critical to survival are often less tolerant of variation than less critical functions. The shape of your eyes is not in itself critical. Your ability to think may well be.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #57 - September 05, 2009, 11:07 PM

Quote from: panoptic on September 05, 2009, 10:47 PM
"This is a dangerous way to classify humans, and its purpose is to to justify racism. In fact race is an artificial construct" and "Race doesn't actually exist. But racism certainly does..." Is different from what I said, how?

Race does exist, you cannot deny this.

Yes, it can be misused by racist people. But we are having a discussion on pure scientific facts. Anyone can use anything for wrong purposes, this does not mean that we cannot discuss things like that.

Mother nature is not fair. This is how nature intended us to be.
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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #58 - September 05, 2009, 11:20 PM

Quote from: open_thinking on September 05, 2009, 11:07 PM
Race does exist, you cannot deny this.

I can and do.

Quote
But we are having a discussion on pure scientific facts.

Yes. It's all just neutral and scientific. What facts? The ones that the The Pioneer Fund facilitate?

"If our society did not divide people by race then the question of racial differences would be too scientifically boring for anyone to bother with. Races are biologically superficial, and they tie in to no real theory of how we evolved, so there is no coherent explanation as to why races should differ biologically.... If our society did not divide people by race then the question of racial differences would be too scientifically boring for anyone to bother with. Races are biologically superficial, and they tie in to no real theory of how we evolved, so there is no coherent explanation as to why races should differ biologically." Steven Pinker (who's hardly pc, btw)

"...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
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Re: High IQ turns academics into atheists
Reply #59 - September 05, 2009, 11:23 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on September 05, 2009, 10:49 PM
I agree about the dodgey connotations of the analogy but it is still a valid analogy as far as it goes. Even among dog breeds that can breed with each other there are still discernible differences in intelligence and behaviour and these can be traced to genetic causes. What I am saying is that there is no a priori reason to rule out the same thing in humans.

OK

"...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
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