I never claimed or even implied that all Muslims are exactly the same in their ideas or interpretations of the faith, but yes, there is a huge problem in many Muslim nations, sects on a variety of issues which are too difficult to be ignored. Yes, its cool if they all clean up their act, but honestly it isn't my duty to see that they do, or to cheer them along as they do it.
Rather its their duty to do this, not any charity upon the world. Again, I don't think its a crime to dislike al religion, or even one particular religion, as long as I don't act on that preference by deporting, harassing, refusing jobs etc members of that religion.
I don't do such things, nor have I ever done such stuff.
I know there are such sects or such people, but again, as I said, I feel the multiple troubles in Islamic nations on a lot of issues, must stem from something in Islamic ideology & the beliefs of a significant % of Muslims in these nations
I have never taken any action against any Muslims, nor have I advocated such action, but I do have my freedom of expression. Many religious folks feel threatened by Dawkins, so should he shut up?
Its freedom of speech & expression to think all religion bullshit, & its also freedom to think one particular religion worse than others, I want my freedom to express my views, so long as I don't take any discriminatory action based on my views, why should I have to limit my views?
Well, there are times the situatio improves, then they again go downhill, I haven't seen many nations manage to rise above the situation entirely.
Your family fled due to anti Ahmadiyya persecution, my Zoroastrian grandparents fled Pakistan when it was being cleansed of other religions during the Partition to make an Islamic state.My grandpa lost three of his siblings. Now people are fleeing Talibani violence & fighting those Muslims, tomorrow, perhaps new reasons to flee will emerge.
Your family hasn't been forced to flee Britain have they, or lost any family members due to Brits violence? Thats the difference between Islamic & non Islamic morality, which I see in many parts of the world.Its in way too many places to ignore.
They will be forced to flee if right wing parties like the BNP do come into power. They have a crystal clear party manifesto that indicates their plans for Muslims.
You should watch 'The Secret Agent', really good documentary about a BBC journalist that goes undercover to expose the BNP. I think you'll find it interesting. Should be on Google Videos.
Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it will not happen. We don't know if it will happen.
Yes, Dawkins might make some Muslims feel uncomfortable, but he is using science and reasoning to argue against the belief in God, unlike say Geert Wilders who is also a rising figure who is using anti-Islamic paranoia to restrain Muslim rights. Everyone should have the right to wear what they want provided it does not jeopardise the safety of the masses. A 15 year old girl wearing a hijab (not I say hijab, not niqab!) is hardly a threat to the masses.
Yes you have your freedom of speech, you've expressed that many a times on the forum. But what you don't understand is we ALL have that same freedom of speech, so if someone comes back and refutes your point it does not neccesarily mean they are apologetics for Muslims.
The fact that you aren't against moderate, pacificst sects of Islam tells me that you DO believe Islam can be reformed. The formation of pacifist sects of Islam including Ahmaddiyat and in your mum's case, the Bohra sect, shows that the religion IS evolving, all we need to do is to encourage more moderate Islamic memes rather than the extreme ones.
However, by posting the way you have been lately (with the exception of this thread as far as I have seen), you will only anger more extreme Muslims, and even moderate Muslims, and that is not a solution. No, it is not YOUR responsibility to reform them, but by angering them you are promoting the 'Us and Them' attitude, which can get dangerous.
You refuse to acknowledge that there are some aspects of Christianity (some sects) that do promote hate and bigotry. You refuse to acknowledge that the Palestinian-Israeli fighting is due to anger and resentment from BOTH sides (even promoted by the Us and Them attitude). By taking sides, you aren't helping the situation at all. You go on about the situation in Muslim countries like Somalia, and blame Islam for the fact that the country is poor and backwards, when you haven't looked at other African Christian countries that are also poor and backwards. Religion is not the sole reason for them being poor, there are many political factors to take into account too.
I hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to jump down your throat, I'm just trying to reason with you without telling you that you aren't entitled to your opinion. Like it has been said before, freedom of speech goes both ways.
Topic: Ahmadiyya in Britain, v. in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia & Muslim nations!