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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
  • Yes
  • No
  • I'm Somewhere in the middle
  • Not Sure

 Topic: Would you describe yourself as a communist?

 (Read 10125 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #30 - September 17, 2009, 05:24 PM

    panoptic: Please. Communism requires one of two things:

    1) A completely non-existing kind of human which is wholly altruistic and has no tendencies to want to think of his closest family before his neighbour, or give his children an advantage in life.
    2) A dictatorship which ensures 1).

    It is impossible. Democracy with a strong set of individual rights within a market economy with checks and balances has yet to be outperformed as system of government. We need to make sure those checks and balances are diligently managed though.

    Oh, and btw - without money to represent the value of a commodity, how do you propose to make corn, oranges, lemons available to a Russian living in Murmansk, who produces iron ore or whatever used by a factory in Arkhangelsk?
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #31 - September 17, 2009, 05:28 PM

    Evidence I'd do any of these? Or I have ever done stuff like these?


     Roll Eyes You really think I care? Lemme break it down for you-- since you've come back here and are more interested in trolling than rational debate, I no longer take you seriously. Your posts are garbage and my responses to them, when I'm so inclined to give them, will be the same.

    Batista was a dictator. The Tsar was a despot. People were in hell.
    Communism came. People got a slight material standard improvement with wealth being spread more equally. OK, a good start, I'll give you that. But they still did not have freedom of speech or the ability to influence the state's development. They still had to worry about secret police. No further positive development came after that initial improvement.


    Okay, I don't dispute the basics of what you are saying here, but NO further positive development? Certainly there were positive technological developments that came out of Soviet society, and Cuba did more than effect a "slight material standard improvement"-- they drastically increased education levels, drastically reduced crime, gave land to the peasants who had worked the land for years only to be treated as serfs, and developed the best medical care in the Caribbean/Latin America, open to all. Without numerous attempted coups and assassination attempts by the US that made the regime increasingly repressive and without an economic embargo by Cuba's largest (by far) potential trading partner that crippled and deformed the Cuban economy-- who knows how much better Cuba's development could have been?


    Quote
    As I remember History from school: Russia before the revolutions had no democratic experience. It was governed by a despot Tsar as his own personal property. After the first revolution, development could have gone in a social democratic, reformist, way.


    Actually there are many directions it could have gone in and there were considerably more democratic but revolutionary (not reformist) movements afoot besides the Bolsheviks. Don't forget that the Bolsheviks violently liquidated the Anarchists and the Left SRs and even suppressed other Communists (like the Left Communists) and dissenting factions (like the Democratic Centralists and Workers' Opposition) within their own party. It was the Bolsheviks that eliminated the Factory Committees that had sprung up during the February Revolution and returned to one-man management. So reformism was not the only other option to Leninism at the time.

    Quote
    I can't help but track the difficulties of today's Russia to these 70 years of mismanagement and keeping any democratic tendencies down. When finally dictatorship broke down they were not ready to handle it

     

    But that's the thing-- the economic and political superstructure fell to capitalist restoration and their empire broke apart, but this was not due to some kind of yearning for freedom (other than perhaps the desire for national liberation amongst the constituent republics of the USSR) and democratic political structures-- that was never in the cards. Yeltsin made a show of "liberal democracy" for the West to get foreign aid and prop up his own regime, but this was the same man who bombed parliament. Very few people in Russia, at least among the political leadership that emerged, ever had any genuine interest in liberal democracy.

    Now you can pin some of this on the Communist regime that came before, but, by our own admission, it was just one authoritarian regime replacing a much older authoritarian tradition-- so chalking up all of modern Russia's faults to Communism is overly simplistic.

    panoptic: Please. Communism requires one of two things:

    1) A completely non-existing kind of human which is wholly altruistic and has no tendencies to want to think of his closest family before his neighbour, or give his children an advantage in life.
    2) A dictatorship which ensures 1).


    And free-market economics, in principle, requires perfect people too (in my opinion Smith and his heirs are as utopian as Marx and his heirs). In practice it requires the exploitation of labor in developed nations and the superexploitation of labor in resources in underdeveloped natons.

    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #32 - September 17, 2009, 05:57 PM

    Just trying to get a feel of what's the general opinion of everyone here regarding Communism.

    I'm somewhere in the middle.


    I would never wish to live under communism.

    Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #33 - September 17, 2009, 05:59 PM


    Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'


    Errr more or less

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #34 - September 17, 2009, 06:03 PM

    Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles.


    Not really. That's a false dichotomy.

    Quote
    Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'


    Um, no, because economic inequality is a fundamental part of capitalism's economic engine. Capitalism can only generate wealth by keeping labor costs as low as possible and extracting profits from it-- thus making the wealth of a minority dependent on the economic exploitation of the majority. Short version-- not everyone can be wealthy under capitalism, and, in fact, a good number of people need to be poor or unemployed under capitalism.

    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #35 - September 17, 2009, 06:07 PM

    Q-man, you obviously have me at a disadvantage when it comes to historical knowledge.

    The American embargo against Cuba does present an argument that it could have been better. However, considering the basic mechanisms of a dictatorship, I reserve the right to seriously doubt that.

    Re Russia:

    Of course, the time of the Tsar is also guilty for not giving democracy to the people. We usually do not, though, expect that of a despot.

    On a movement which is supposed to be working for the people, however, I think one should be allowed to put higher demands. Communism kept up the tradition of the people being the servants of the state and having no individual value. It did improve their lot materially but that has limited value when you are not free. And in the end, even materially it betrayed the people since it went bankrupt.

    I also do not agree with you when it comes to people not having a yearning for freedom and democracy. I think it is quite obvious by the initial surge of activity that there was a pent-up need for all kinds of freedom. However, the economic chaos unfortunately made people think of their choice as being an eat-or-speak one and of course then chose the eat alternative.

    If I remember correctly, Yeltsin bombed the Parliament to thwart an attempted coup from conservatives, who had put Gorbachev in detention. I would say that is a reasonable action.

    Regarding perfect people: A pure free-market economy is unrealistic if you want to be humane also. A market economy under checks and balances is not.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #36 - September 17, 2009, 06:10 PM

    Also, adding onto what Q just said, I just want to point out that:

    'The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.' [/i]


    this is actually the idea of communism--not capitalism.

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #37 - September 17, 2009, 06:15 PM

    Not really. That's a false dichotomy.

    Um, no, because economic inequality is a fundamental part of capitalism's economic engine. Capitalism can only generate wealth by keeping labor costs as low as possible and extracting profits from it-- thus making the wealth of a minority dependent on the economic exploitation of the majority. Short version-- not everyone can be wealthy under capitalism, and, in fact, a good number of people need to be poor or unemployed under capitalism.


    Competition drives the market as it should.
    Low prices for workers occurs when immigrants or a group of workers come and offer to work for less but it can work the other way.
    Capitalism works on the premise that individuals and ofc businesses have the right to choose how and where to do business so to speake so invest, trade etc.

    Without competition, a business isn't pushed to excel or improve and would not benefit a society not to mention it also helps new ideas to flourish.
    Capitalism is not without faults, one of those you mentioned but it is a damn sight better than anything else especially communism

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #38 - September 17, 2009, 06:31 PM

    On a movement which is supposed to be working for the people, however, I think one should be allowed to put higher demands. Communism kept up the tradition of the people being the servants of the state and having no individual value. It did improve their lot materially but that has limited value when you are not free. And in the end, even materially it betrayed the people since it went bankrupt.


    Fair enough.

    Quote
    If I remember correctly, Yeltsin bombed the Parliament to thwart an attempted coup from conservatives, who had put Gorbachev in detention. I would say that is a reasonable action.


    You are confusing two separate events-- the 1991 August coup and the 1993 Constitutional crisis:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Coup

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_constitutional_crisis_of_1993#Siege_and_assault

    Yeltsin was trying to usurp the powers of Parliament through autocratic and unconstitutional exercises of power, and Parliament defied him, invalidated his Presidency and called for new elections after the courts had ruled Yeltsin's actions to be unconstitutional and impeachable. Yeltsin responded by bombing the Parliament. Fuck Yeltsin.

    Quote
    Regarding perfect people: A pure free-market economy is unrealistic if you want to be humane also.


    I'd say a pure free-market economy is unrealistic generally speaking. It requires perfect information, it also requires everyone to "play by the rules" and not use cartels, trade associations, labor unions, the state, or NGOs to manipulate the market to their advantage.

    Also, adding onto what Q just said, I just want to point out that:

    this is actually the idea of communism--not capitalism.


    Yep.

    Competition drives the market as it should.


    The competitive model isn't all its cracked up to be and has many theoretical and practical flaws, but I don't have time to get into all of them at the moment.

    Quote
    Without competition, a business isn't pushed to excel or improve and would not benefit a society not to mention it also helps new ideas to flourish.


    Who says the competition needs to be over wealth and basic resources, though? Kalashnikov never expected to get rich off of what became the most innovative and popular modern rifle design-- contributing to victory over the Nazis was good enough motivation. Do you think Thomas Edison never would have invented anything if he didn't expect to reap huge profits from those inventions? Or do you think intellectual curiosity would still lead to innovation, and competition over other things (say even just personal pride) would still lead people to excel in their jobs?

    And are you saying that a competitive model will always lead to excellence and improvement, but a collaborative model never will?

    Quote
    Capitalism is not without faults, one of those you mentioned but it is a damn sight better than anything else especially communism


    Okay, pick a country to live in-- "Communist" Yugoslavia in the late 70s or "capitalist" Saudi Arabia right now. Before you tell me SA isn't a "true" capitalist country, I'd like to point out that there have never been any modern, specialized societies, which operated on a purely capitalist or communist model.

    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #39 - September 17, 2009, 09:19 PM

    panoptic: Please. Communism requires one of two things:

    1) A completely non-existing kind of human which is wholly altruistic and has no tendencies to want to think of his closest family before his neighbour, or give his children an advantage in life.


    Why would that be? I have never envisaged such a thing.

    We draw our conclusions about how people can live from how they have and actually do live, throughout history. People don't need to change their nature in order to live/produce cooperatively. That is what we did for millennia already! We still do it now, we desire to do so now, in spite of capitalist production, which couldn't exist if it wasn't the case that we are able to do so.

    Quote
    2) A dictatorship which ensures 1).


    Communism and dictatorship are mutually exclusive.

    Nevertheless if you believe that chimeric human can be created by a dictatorship, you hold the ability of dictatorships in high esteem indeed.

    Quote
    It is impossible not necessary.


    Fixed [if you mean man-moulding dictatorship].

    Quote
    Democracy with a strong set of individual rights within a market economy with checks and balances has yet to be outperformed as system of government.


    What democracy? The one that consists of ritual voting every four or so years, for one of two parties you can't stick a fag paper between? While most substantial power, for all intents and purposes, rests in the hands of those whose ownership of the productive capacity for reproducing human life excludes the vast majority, often violently, from having a meaningful say in the most important processes that are ever undertaken, on a global or a national scale?

    If this is democracy, I am anti-democracy.

    'Rights'? Or, in cold light, the relinquishing of our social power.

    A semblance of 'democracy' and 'rights' which, in any case, are under attack, with greater onslaught on its way in our era.

    Quote
    Oh, and btw - without money to represent the value of a commodity, how do you propose to make corn, oranges, lemons available to a Russian living in Murmansk, who produces iron ore or whatever used by a factory in Arkhangelsk?


    Commodity production, which took place in the Soviet Union, is the defining feature of capitalism.

    Real socialism, or communism, is based on the _collective ownership of the means of production_. That has not been the case in any countries like the USSR, China, Cuba, North Korea etc. with state ownership - bourgeois ownership - capitalism, in one form or another. When labour is no longer exploited it doesn't produce commodities. Exchange-values are obsolete, since all labour is directed to use-values. The 'problem' of representing value is a non-problem when commodities cease to be produced, when goods aren't made with a view to buying and selling on the market.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #40 - September 18, 2009, 04:30 PM

    I would strongly dispute the assertion that Communism was a failure in Yugoslavia or that the regime was totalitarian (or even much more repressive than most Western European powers at the time).

    On Yugoslavia not being totalitarian:
    Ever heard of post WW2 executions (without previous trail) of local Nazi collaborators, ideologically incompatible intelligentsia, ideological opposition (left wing, liberal and right wing), etc. by the new revolutionary government?
    And I am talking tens of thousands here; so far approximately 600 mass graves have been indentified. There were even cases of refuges fleeing Yugoslavia towards Austria (which was at the time occupied by Anglo/American troops) being forced back (by Americans and Brits) into their deaths. Men, women and children alike.
    How about politically motivated trials against intellectuals who were trying to form opposition in the '50 and '60? They were send to Goli Otok, an island in Adriatic which functioned as a sort of gulag, for reeducation.
    I know that it was a different time back then and that there were totalitarian lunatics in the west too (McCarthy in the US for example) but saying that Yugoslavia was not much more repressive then most Western powers at the time is going a bit too far.

    On Communism not being a failure in Yugoslavia:
    I suppose you know how it all ended?
    Yugoslavia was indeed very different in comparison to the Soviet Bloc countries; free travel, booming tourism, decent economic situation, etc. , but that was due to the fact that it was more westernized and cooperated with both sides while remaining neutral.

    Anybody who is even a bit interested in Communism should see this documentary: The Soviet Story

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdsa5-jKzy4&feature=PlayList&p=CD0B74FA9D7F0E78&index=0&playnext=1

    Communism is a bit like Islam in a way (or any other ideology for that matter); everybody is claiming that their Communism (or Islam, or insert ideology of preference) is the real thing and that all other implementations are flawed.

    In Michel Houellebecq's Platform main protagonist travels to Cuba and an old Cuban tells him this (I am paraphrasing): "The most fundamental legacy of Castro in Cuba is the fact that a fat American tourist can get a blowjob from a beautiful Cuban girl for $5."
    'Nuff said.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #41 - September 18, 2009, 05:00 PM

    Ever heard of post WW2 executions (without previous trail) of local Nazi collaborators,


    Gee, my heart bleeds. Guess what, if I were a Partisan fighting Nazi occupation I'd be droppin collaborators left and right. The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising started off by whacking Nazi collaborators without trial, but I'm not gonna criticize them for that either.

    Quote
    ideologically incompatible intelligentsia, ideological opposition (left wing, liberal and right wing), etc. by the new revolutionary government?


    Tends to happen during revolutions. Doesn't in and of itself negate the value of the revolution. The American Revolution involved extrajudicial killings, and the French Revolution many more, but I still think France, the US, and the world in general are better off for having had those revolutions.

    Quote
    And I am talking tens of thousands here; so far approximately 600 mass graves have been indentified.


    Citation?

    Quote
    How about politically motivated trials against intellectuals who were trying to form opposition in the '50 and '60? They were send to Goli Otok, an island in Adriatic which functioned as a sort of gulag, for reeducation.
    I know that it was a different time back then and that there were totalitarian lunatics in the west too (McCarthy in the US for example) but saying that Yugoslavia was not much more repressive then most Western powers at the time is going a bit too far.


    No, it's not going too far if you look, not just at McCarthyism, but the Smith Act, the Taft-Hartley Act, COINTELPRO, the murders of Black activists either by the state itself or by terrorists working under the protection of law enforcement (like the Klan), government harassment, imprisonment, and even murder of anti-war activists, there is a very good argument to be made that, from 1947 to the mid-70s, the US government was every bit as repressive as the Yugoslavian government against political dissidents, perhaps even more so, during the same time period.

    Quote
    On Communism not being a failure in Yugoslavia:
    I suppose you know how it all ended?


    Yep, and I would argue that Tito's Communist regime was the only thing preventing that from happening for so long. Once he died and the Serbian nationalists began taking control, the game changed.

    Quote
    Yugoslavia was indeed very different in comparison to the Soviet Bloc countries; free travel, booming tourism, decent economic situation, etc. ,


    Yep.

    Quote
    but that was due to the fact that it was more westernized and cooperated with both sides while remaining neutral.


    That and Tito had a very different vision of socialism than the USSR (a vision truer to the ideals of socialism I would argue)-- for example, workers in state-run enterprises in Yugoslavia actually exercised self-management whereas the Soviet industries still used the capitalist model of one-man management, having returned to that after liquidating the Factory Committees that sprung up during the February Revolution. In other words, the regime in Belgrade actually took steps to immediately improve the material status, power, and freedom of the working-class whereas Moscow did not.

    And the only reason they were able to stay neutral is that, unlike the resistance movements elsewhere in Europe, the Partisans were able to kick the Nazis out basically by themselves, with very little direct intervention from Allied armies. So after Tito took care of Hitler's boys, he had no problem giving a big "fuck you" to Stalin when Uncle Joe tried making Yugoslavia into a subject of the Soviet Empire.

    Quote
    In Michel Houellebecq's Platform main protagonist travels to Cuba and an old Cuban tells him this (I am paraphrasing): "The most fundamental legacy of Castro in Cuba is the fact that a fat American tourist can get a blowjob from a beautiful Cuban girl for $5."
    'Nuff said.


    Prostitution was rampant in Batista's Cuba too. The difference now is that instead of prostitution being run by organized crime it is decriminalized, informally regulated and the prostitutes have access to condoms, free health care/STD testing, and police protection-- meaning that Cuba's prostitutes are the healthiest and most secure in their safety in Latin America (and arguably they're in a better position than many US working girls).

    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #42 - September 18, 2009, 05:06 PM

    Apparently there is ONE Communist hiding here, somewhere.

    I think it's about time we started "inviting" members in to hearings to find out who it is.

  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #43 - September 18, 2009, 05:33 PM

    Citation?

    Unfortunately there isn't a lot of literature on this matter available in English. I could paste links to books and documentaries but they would all be in a language you probably don't understand.
    The post Second World War summary executions issue in Yugoslavia have been under intense scrutiny since circa 1985 and they still are even today. Because of brutality and the sheer size of the crime
    and the fact that some perpetuators are still alive there is a lot of political tension regarding this (locally of course); it is a sort of a collective trauma.
    Tbh you know a lot about Yugoslavia in general but unless you have really studied the subject, there is a lot you still have to discover. Wish we could meet and discuss this, I kinda suck at typing.
    I could show you a few books I have, photos, ... But since you live over the Pond that is unlikely to happen.

  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #44 - September 18, 2009, 05:50 PM

    Apparently there is ONE Communist hiding here, somewhere.

    I think it's about time we started "inviting" members in to hearings to find out who it is.

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Not me, I promise...

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #45 - September 18, 2009, 05:52 PM

    Unfortunately there isn't a lot of literature on this matter available in English. I could paste links to books and documentaries but they would all be in a language you probably don't understand.
    The post Second World War summary executions issue in Yugoslavia have been under intense scrutiny since circa 1985 and they still are even today. Because of brutality and the sheer size of the crime
    and the fact that some perpetuators are still alive there is a lot of political tension regarding this (locally of course); it is a sort of a collective trauma.


    Fair enough, but although I would still like citations to the exact numbers, you will note I never denied shit like this happened, however, this stuff tends to happen frequently in revolutionary, insurgency, civil war, and post-occupation scenarios, but, in some cases, the overall outcome is still positive, as I would argue it was in Yugoslavia's case.

    No matter what I will always have respect for Tito and his Partisans for the following:

    1. Being the only truly effective resistance movement in Nazi-occupied Europe, in other words, for kicking Nazi ass.

    2. Creating an organization that was by far the best of the competing armed factions in that, unlike the Ustase and Chetniks, it did not ever collaborate with the Axis and did not represent only one ethnic/religious group.

    3. Telling Stalin to fuck off, and building, by far, the most independent, liberal, and humane Communist regime to ever exist.

    Quote
    Tbh you know a lot about Yugoslavia in general but unless you have really studied the subject, there is a lot you still have to discover.

     

    No doubt. Planning a trip to Sarajevo within the next year.

    Quote
    Wish we could meet and discuss this, I kinda suck at typing.
    I could show you a few books I have, photos, ... But since you live over the Pond that is unlikely to happen.


    Well, if you're ever in Philly, NYC or close by...

    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #46 - September 18, 2009, 05:56 PM

    Not me, I promise...


    We'll be the judge of than sonny jim!

  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #47 - September 18, 2009, 05:59 PM

    It's me Hassan. I'm the communist.

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #48 - September 18, 2009, 06:01 PM

    *Calls up the firing squad*.  Tommy to be taken outside and shot.   Shooter

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #49 - September 18, 2009, 06:02 PM

    It's me Hassan. I'm the communist.


    Well since all communists are liars (and undercover Muslims) then you are NOT the communist.

    But we'll shoot you just in case.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #50 - September 18, 2009, 06:08 PM

    No matter what I will always have respect for Tito and his Partisans for the following:

    1. Being the only truly effective resistance movement in Nazi-occupied Europe, in other words, for kicking Nazi ass.

    2. Creating an organization that was by far the best of the competing armed factions in that, unlike the Ustase and Chetniks, it did not ever collaborate with the Axis and did not represent only one ethnic/religious group.

    3. Telling Stalin to fuck off, and building, by far, the most independent, liberal, and humane Communist regime to ever exist.


    Well, I do agree with you there, but I do think that he could and should have done a better job especially because of the vacuum that ensued as a result of his death and a consequent revival of authoritarianism and nationalism.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #51 - September 18, 2009, 06:14 PM

    Has anybody noticed a five pointed star together with (sort of) hammer and sickle in the upper right corner of my avatar? Or the inscription "For the Greater Good" in (sort of) Cyrillic underneath it? Communist I tell you!
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #52 - September 18, 2009, 06:16 PM

    Well if that's you in the avatar - if I become a communist too, can I be your friend  grin12
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #53 - September 18, 2009, 06:20 PM

    Well if that's you in the avatar - if I become a communist too, can I be your friend  grin12

    Its the hat, right?

    Two more comrades with hats:
    My old avatar:




    Lt. Zofia does not have a hat, but she does have a nice uniform.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #54 - September 18, 2009, 06:24 PM

    Well, I do agree with you there, but I do think that he could and should have done a better job especially because of the vacuum that ensued as a result of his death and a consequent revival of authoritarianism and nationalism.


    Agreed, and that's always been my biggest criticism of Tito-- the fact he didn't adequately prepare his country for the day he wouldn't be around anymore. But it's kinda easy to play Monday morning quarterback on that.

    Although Tito definitely seems to have enjoyed the role of strong man and even "Strongman Emeritus" as he became more of a statesman and less involved in domestic matters late in life, sometimes people crave strong leadership, and it may have turned out the same no matter what Tito had done. I've seen it happen in various union locals-- the President, some other officer, organizer or rep tries to develop broader leadership and rank-and-file involvement, and sometimes it works great, sometimes it works okay, and sometimes it doesn't work at all; and the members keep relying on the leadership of one person even if that one person would rather have the responsibility and authority spread out more. And once that unifying leader retires, gets promoted, gets fired, quits, dies or otherwise leaves, the local union goes in to chaos-- either splitting into nasty competing factions or just lacking leadership and activism altogether-- and it can take many years for it to recover, if it recovers at all. Unfortunately, that's just how shit works sometimes.

    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #55 - September 18, 2009, 06:30 PM

    Its the hat, right?


    (cough) Yes... (cough) it's the hat...
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #56 - September 18, 2009, 08:00 PM

    In Anarchism or Socialism?, we can see that Stalin understood the principles of socialism-communism:

    "As you see, in Marx's opinion, the higher phase of communist (i.e., socialist)
    society will be a system under which the division of work into "dirty" and
    "clean," and the contradiction between mental and physical labour will be
    completely abolished, labour will be equal, and in society the genuine communist
    principle will prevail: from each according to his ability, to each according to
    his needs. Here there is no room for wage-labour."

    And;

    "The dictatorship of the proletariat will be a dictatorship of
    the entire proletariat as a class over the bourgeoisie and not the domination of
    a few individuals over the proletariat."

    But he never applied them. Nor did Lenin.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #57 - September 18, 2009, 11:27 PM

    Its the hat, right?

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Ok, I just converted. It's me. I'm the communist.

    Long live the Glorious Totalitarian Status Quo!  bunny

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #58 - September 19, 2009, 04:52 AM

    What was the USSR? pt 1


    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #59 - September 25, 2009, 11:19 PM

    *I* am the communist. Duh.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
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