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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
  • Yes
  • No
  • I'm Somewhere in the middle
  • Not Sure

 Topic: Would you describe yourself as a communist?

 (Read 10092 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 3« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #60 - September 26, 2009, 12:41 AM

    Yeah, Sputnik, first man in space, the world's first real assault rifle that is still, by far, the most popular around the world, 7 Nobel Prize-winning physicists-- the USSR really stifled innovation.  Roll Eyes By contrast, beyond some minor refinements in military technology, I can't think of a single major innovation to come out of Russia after capitalist counterrevolution in 1991.



    It is hardly surprising that there was innovation in certain areas in the USSR, considering the competition that it had with US and the immense propaganda value these had....   It was very important that such innovation took place for the USSR to retain its position.   That kind of innovation would have taken place under any political system, provided that it was in the same situation...

    Quite impressive stuff really.  But then what about social innovations and things to improve people's lives?  

    I am no expert on Soviet society but there do not seem to be much innovations when it comes to other things...  In the end the only thing in which the USSR was able to rival the US was its army and its military equipment.

    By the way, one could also say that the AK 47 was a hybrid based on several German designs rather than an invention...  The first real assualt rifle was the German StG 44.  The AK 47 was based on its design.   Also the AK 47 was not used during WW2

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #61 - September 26, 2009, 12:48 AM

    Not really. That's a false dichotomy.

    Um, no, because economic inequality is a fundamental part of capitalism's economic engine. Capitalism can only generate wealth by keeping labor costs as low as possible and extracting profits from it-- thus making the wealth of a minority dependent on the economic exploitation of the majority. Short version-- not everyone can be wealthy under capitalism, and, in fact, a good number of people need to be poor or unemployed under capitalism.



    The difference being that everyone has a chance of improving his lot under a capitalist system, there is also the chance for someone on top to end up in a bad state as well...  The sad truth is that not everyone gets to be wealthy under any system... That would happen in a non existant utopia.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #62 - September 26, 2009, 02:04 AM

     
    I'd say a pure free-market economy is unrealistic generally speaking. It requires perfect information, it also requires everyone to "play by the rules" and not use cartels, trade associations, labor unions, the state, or NGOs to manipulate the market to their advantage.


    Well obviously it is unrealistic because you are talking about a pure idealistic form.  There will always be some regulation, there has to be anyway.  What one should see is the extent of the regulation and how much the market should be regulated so as to provide the best for all.  Too much regulation and concentration of power in one body is equally harmful


     
    Yep. The competitive model isn't all its cracked up to be and has many theoretical and practical flaws


    So far nobody has come up with better alternatives.


     
    Who says the competition needs to be over wealth and basic resources, though? Kalashnikov never expected to get rich off of what became the most innovative and popular modern rifle design-- contributing to victory over the Nazis was good enough motivation. Do you think Thomas Edison never would have invented anything if he didn't expect to reap huge profits from those inventions? Or do you think intellectual curiosity would still lead to innovation, and competition over other things (say even just personal pride) would still lead people to excel in their jobs?


    Competition has always been over wealth and resources..  That is the natural way.  A business is not like an invention.  No one starts a business out of intellectual curiosity and therefore you cannot compare the two.  Ideas best flourish when the economic situation permits it and when there is sufficient financial investment as well, otherwise they would not materialise... One should see which of the two systems maintain that situation the longest

    And are you saying that a competitive model will always lead to excellence and improvement, but a collaborative model never will?


    It would be better if we see the ratios...  I am not an expert so I don't know.

    Okay, pick a country to live in-- "Communist" Yugoslavia in the late 70s or "capitalist" Saudi Arabia right now. Before you tell me SA isn't a "true" capitalist country, I'd like to point out that there have never been any modern, specialized societies, which operated on a purely capitalist or communist model.

      

    Oh for fuck sake... Did it have to be Saudi Arabia?  Saudi Arabia is not unbearable to live in because it is capitalist...  Tell me how many countries are inhibited by a primitive, backward ideology and are ruled by an absolute monarch like Saudi Arabia?  Why don't you mention countries like Germany instead?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #63 - September 26, 2009, 11:53 PM

    Oh for fuck sake... Did it have to be Saudi Arabia?  Saudi Arabia is not unbearable to live in because it is capitalist...  Tell me how many countries are inhibited by a primitive, backward ideology and are ruled by an absolute monarch like Saudi Arabia?  Why don't you mention countries like Germany instead?


    Why? Because I was making the point that any capitalist country is not always better than any communist country. There are, well, were, plenty of Combloc countries I'd prefer living in to plenty of capitalist countries. My country (US) vs. the USSR, yeah, I'm sticking with America, but the differences in liberty and standard of living for the average worker between capitalist and communist countries wasn't always as clear-cut as many people like to claim.

    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #64 - September 28, 2009, 06:08 PM

    ''Why? Because I was making the point that any capitalist country is not always better than any communist country. There are, well, were, plenty of Combloc countries I'd prefer living in to plenty of capitalist countries. My country (US) vs. the USSR, yeah, I'm sticking with America, but the differences in liberty and standard of living for the average worker between capitalist and communist countries wasn't always as clear-cut as many people like to claim.''


    Its not about that, its just about the fact that there are more factors that determine how good and stable life is than simply the 'system' that is being used.  Yes Im quite sure that life under certain communist governments was better than that in the holy kingdom...  But also ask yourself whether religious police, strict gender segragation and rule by an absolute monarch are strictly the effects of capitalism...

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
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