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 Topic: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?

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  • Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     OP - November 15, 2009, 06:09 PM
    Hi Everyone,

    Would like your opinion on this. I was at a wedding of fairly distant bunch of relatives last night. These relatives are pretty relaxed, Western and successful. Very high EQ, most have managerial positions, nothing that technical. There was a dance floor at the end of the wedding - something you won't find at Tower Hamlet Muslim based wedding which are still uber conservative that's for sure. I thought one irony was how the traditional Indian music was being played by white musicians dressed up in nice Indian clothes - they were pretty good though!

    Anyhow, so I met this chap who is fairly young & successful (works at a hedge fund firm in London) and I felt kind of embarrassed just talking to him (he'd correct me, especially when trying to work out how we are relative - I'm sure some of us have experienced how complicated that can get!). Anyway - at first sight he came across very much so like most of his relatives in being hardly religious. Btw, he came across a bit snobbish too.

    Later on he tells me he's going for pilgrimage in a week. This morning my mum asked me what I thought of him. He was in her good books and a possible candidate for my older sister who my rents are trying to send off. I'm of the opinion this chap ticks all the boxes (except for being a tad bit snobbish) but I'm vetoing him on the fact he's going on a pilgrimage. The reason I take this view is A) I don't want a future brother in law to lose any relationship with non-religious members of the family (i.e. me) and B) I don't really want my sister to lose any freedom which I've seen happen to cousins who've married what looked like innocent Muslim husbands at first. One first female cousin was told to stop working, but ironically her husband lost his job and now she supports them both.

    Question: am I being rather too judgmental here? Please be frank.
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #1 - November 15, 2009, 06:16 PM
    He doesn't sound very appealing, but maybe you should get to know him better before you veto him?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #2 - November 15, 2009, 07:22 PM
    I agree with Cheetah.  Try to get to know the guy better first.

    The fact that he came off as snobbish towards you would definitely raise red flags in my book.

    See how he is when he gets back from the Hajj.  It changes some people but doesn't seem to affect others i.e., Wahhabisation.
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #3 - November 15, 2009, 07:31 PM
    It'd be a bonus if he was an ex-muslim, but I dont think the pilgrimmage should really come into it - if he's a good person then it shouldnt make much difference.  I would suggest spending more time with him, and working out whether his personality is compatible..
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #4 - November 15, 2009, 07:31 PM
    hedge firm guy + hajj maker... i'd be wary of him at this point, chalk it up to experience. But yeah I'd recommend getting to know him better but be careful. Also, what does your sister think of him or has she met him at all?
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #5 - November 15, 2009, 07:42 PM
    Thanks, yes you're all right. I only know him for an hour. Good point about how the pilgrimage might change him.

    I don't see this "candidate" going anywhere though, sis is real picky, she rejected him already apparently.

    I'd wish she'd just be allowed to go internet dating and meet a chap regardless of his ethnic background. For the moment the CV filtering system is still in check - cringing ...
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #6 - November 15, 2009, 07:44 PM
    Quote from: allat on November 15, 2009, 07:31 PM
    hedge firm guy + hajj maker... i'd be wary of him at this point, chalk it up to experience.


    That's enough to set my radar off too. Can't blame High Octane for being wary.
    fuck you
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #7 - November 15, 2009, 07:58 PM
    We are in process of looking for a suitor for my sister. My sister being a ninja is looking for someone who is fairly much the same and at least prays five times a day. It's her life and if she believes and wants a partner that is the same, then I'm okay with it.

    What I do get though before meeting a potential suitor is my sister asking me not to talk about religion to him, she means not to tell them about my atheism. I have no reason to bring it up and for the sake of my sister I won't, unless that person says something really out of order like kafirs should be shot etc. My wife usually calms my sister down, telling her that I won't say anything "silly".

    I have told my sister that don't just look at religiousity, top of the agenda should be personality and an appreciation of varied opinions from other walks of life.
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #8 - November 15, 2009, 08:13 PM
    By ninja do you mean she's stealthy and deadly? Or do you mean she dresses in a black niqab?

    If it's the latter, I doubt you'll ever meet a suitor that meets your complete approval, because most secularized or moderate Muslims aren't going to marry someone who wears a niqab or burqua.

    If it's the former, that's way cool, and you should take her to Somalia and marry her off to a pirate-- as everyone knows that ninjas and pirates make for good mates.
    fuck you
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #9 - November 15, 2009, 09:07 PM
    Ay Ay!! Arr..

    And ya, if he goes hajj, u need to check him out 3 month later. Bonus if he hated the place. Red Flags if he is still humming "Allahum Lubaik La Sharika Laka Lubaik..."
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #10 - November 15, 2009, 09:48 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on November 15, 2009, 08:13 PM
    By ninja do you mean she's stealthy and deadly? Or do you mean she dresses in a black niqab?

    If it's the latter, I doubt you'll ever meet a suitor that meets your complete approval, because most secularized or moderate Muslims aren't going to marry someone who wears a niqab or burqua.

    Why dont you pm HighOctane for the number of this Hajji guy, they look like they may be suited.  If she has to continue wearing Hijaab, at least she'll be wearing Jimmy Choos underneath it all. 
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #11 - November 16, 2009, 07:56 PM
    Ay yay yayyy! I've judged too early it seems ...

    His facebook profile reveals:
    - photos of him at clubs
    - social photos at bars, esp during his world tour, one even in Rio
    - no problem with putting arms around women, including white women
    - doesn't display religion on his Info page but does reveal his part of the MuslimAid group
    - photos at concerts

    ... and the last green bottle: I found out he's going to hajj with his mother. So really, I think he's being a good boy and taking care of his mum over there.
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #12 - November 16, 2009, 08:43 PM
    What a find! Facebook rules, and has caught a few people out.  Are you going to give him the grenlight now & tell your sister & family about this?

    I remember the recent news of the guy who took a day of work because he was ill, only to be reprimanded later because he said in his facebook profile that he was pulling a sicky.

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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #13 - November 16, 2009, 08:50 PM
    "O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful... ...this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother." 49:12
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #14 - November 16, 2009, 08:57 PM
    Why is brother specifically stipulated?  Is it less of an offence to eat the dead flesh of your mother, or any other human? Yum Yum
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #15 - November 16, 2009, 09:23 PM
    You having 'Veto power' over your older sister's life decisions may be the first problem.

    No offense, but is it really your or even your families business? I know in a traditional sense it is, but let move beyond that, as I'm sure you would not like veto power being held over you.
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #16 - November 16, 2009, 09:29 PM
    The veto power was just a figure of speech in extending the "gosh I've got to warn her of the consequences of this!". It's her choice - but I can persuade her as much as I want - and to be honest I don't think she will go for the religious type, this thread was about if I was being too judgmental at first sight.

    IsLame: Sis has still rejected him, and any of the other CVs on the table. I think she's just not ready for marriage yet. Yep, facebook is an amazing source of digging someone up ... scary in fact. I can't believe the number of people who still display their birth date to 300 friends whom which one could take away for ID theft purposes ...
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #17 - November 16, 2009, 09:37 PM
    I guess she want to fall in love first, before getting married.  My sister is the same.  Cant see anything wrong with that  Cheesy
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #18 - November 17, 2009, 08:36 AM
    Quote from: HighOctane on November 16, 2009, 09:29 PM
    The veto power was just a figure of speech in extending the "gosh I've got to warn her of the consequences of this!". It's her choice - but I can persuade her as much as I want - and to be honest I don't think she will go for the religious type, this thread was about if I was being too judgmental at first sight.


    sorry, I misunderstood
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #19 - November 17, 2009, 09:37 AM
    No worries, I shouldn't have used the word veto I suppose. I'm not a Russian UN representative! (no offense to any Russian UN reps here  Wink )

    I heard some second gen south asian adults just go to their rents and say "Hey mum, dad - we don't think this CV system is working - how about you trust us, let us find our own partners, and it would be great to have your opinion - trust us, we're your kids". But the lovely social construct of honor and shame means this still is an issue.

    That's why I think it is up to the second generation's responsibility (if not duty) to take the lead and make changes, however tactfully possible. Dance floors are becoming more common at weddings, marriage between non-ethnic backgrounds is becoming more common - it's only a matter of time - I think it just takes confidence and seriously good negotiation skills but also understanding from the rents. There is always the harder more arrogant method, but burning family bridges down wont help in the long run. Went to a wedding two years ago where the mother of the groom didn't turn up because her Pakistani son was marrying a Bengali daughter.

    But don't get me wrong, - it's come a long way the past 15 years here in UK, just more to go to. Even in Dhaka now, capital of Bangladesh it's common place for Muslims/Hindus to get married - and the UK Bangla community haven't even reached that!

    IsLame: Yes, that would help and creating the environment for that to happen I think would help.
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #20 - November 17, 2009, 06:04 PM
    Is anyone else's family like mine, and the first generation gloat and say "i told you so" if a non-arranged/love marriage fails?
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #21 - November 17, 2009, 06:41 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on November 17, 2009, 06:04 PM
    Is anyone else's family like mine, and the first generation gloat and say "i told you so" if a non-arranged/love marriage fails?


    I'm sure that's what my ex in-laws are saying to my ex hubbie right now!

    BTW my divorce came through last week.

    I'M FREE!

     party!
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #22 - November 17, 2009, 06:58 PM
    Congrats Nour!! You're FREE AT LAST! dance
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #23 - November 17, 2009, 08:31 PM
    So what are you plans for you new found freedom, are you going to tell your ex-hubby about your apostacy now - are you still planning to go back to the states?
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  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #24 - November 17, 2009, 08:37 PM
    Quote from: Nour on November 17, 2009, 06:41 PM
    I'm sure that's what my ex in-laws are saying to my ex hubbie right now!

    BTW my divorce came through last week.

    I'M FREE!

     party!


    Congratulations! (They probably are saying that!)
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Successful second generation, Western ... and Muslim?
     Reply #25 - November 17, 2009, 09:15 PM
    Congrats Nour! Smiley Smiley Smiley
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